Enemas ?

[TheSpud]

Re: Re:

Seriously folks, there is no excess weight to eliminate beyond what you can do by simply taking a dump.

https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/colon-cleanses-a-load-of-you-know-what/

http://www.scientificamerican.com/podcast/episode/study-says-to-avoid-colon-cleanses-11-08-03/

not the premise.

the theory behind Wiggins theory is there will be 300 grams of waste product in your system 24-7, and if you remove the 300 grams, and bypass the gut, and you can directly deposit the energy in your system, you have removed this 300 grams of excess weight.

The idea that this would have a performance benefit seems absurd.

It would improve the w/kg number surely? Not by much but every little bid adds up. Does seem an extreme length to go to though.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Re: Re:

1 kg? never.

try weighing yourself before and after pooping, you wont loose more than 200-300 grams.

Depends how often you poop

They're professional athletes with highly controlled diets. With the correct dietary fibre intake and taking into account that they eat mostly whole foods, they will poop regularly.

If they're eating 8000 calories a day I guess there's a lot 'in transit' at any one time. Maybe it's just the psychological factor of knowing they're not carrying anything they don't have to - there are plenty of stories of riders doing pointless things for weight reasons like throwing away empty bidons, using friction shifters for the front derailleur etc.

I highly doubt that they're eating more then 5000-6000 kcal a day. If I use froome as an example and an activity factor of 2.5 (which is really, really, really high) the daily calorie expenditure to maintain his weight is around 4200 kcal.

Also, they spend 5 to 6 hours on the bike, so they already poop before that for sure.

Not sure where you're getting your formulae, but if you race for 5 hours and average 200W you need 5x3600x200 = 3600 calories just to replace the exercise related output, ignoring your daily "this is how my body stays alive" calories.

 

[Maxiton]

Re: Re:

I highly doubt that they're eating more then 5000-6000 kcal a day. If I use froome as an example and an activity factor of 2.5 (which is really, really, really high) the daily calorie expenditure to maintain his weight is around 4200 kcal.

Also, they spend 5 to 6 hours on the bike, so they already poop before that for sure.

Not sure where you're getting your formulae, but if you race for 5 hours and average 200W you need 5x3600x200 = 3600 calories just to replace the exercise related output, ignoring your daily "this is how my body stays alive" calories.

I think your math is wrong. The formula and its outcome do not jibe and make no sense.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Re: Re:

I highly doubt that they're eating more then 5000-6000 kcal a day. If I use froome as an example and an activity factor of 2.5 (which is really, really, really high) the daily calorie expenditure to maintain his weight is around 4200 kcal.

Also, they spend 5 to 6 hours on the bike, so they already poop before that for sure.

Not sure where you're getting your formulae, but if you race for 5 hours and average 200W you need 5x3600x200 = 3600 calories just to replace the exercise related output, ignoring your daily "this is how my body stays alive" calories.

I think your math is wrong. The formula and its outcome do not jibe and make no sense.

My math is right.

 

[The Hitch]

If Sky are doing this, any chance they can give Walsh a free one next time he goes groupie with them on Tour. Might take a while but he really needs one.

 

[carolina]

I've used the Harris-Benedict formula:

BMR = 88.362 + (13.397 x weight in kg) + (4.799 x height in cm) - (5.677 x age in years)

BMR is the basic metabolic rate. using 67 kilos, 185 cm and 30 years you get ~1700 kcal. then you multiply this by an activity factor, which is usualy 1.8-2 for athletes. I used 2.5 has an overestimation, so you get ~4250 kcal. This is the calculation for an average day. I'm sure he will eat more on trainning days then on rest days, but it will average around 4250 kcal.

Also, you can't accurately calculate the calories spent during exercise just based on time and watts.

and even if your calculations were correct: 1700+3600 = 5300, which is still way bellow 8000 kcal and consistent with my initial guess of 5000-6000 kcal a day.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Re:

I've used the Harris-Benedict formula:

BMR = 88.362 + (13.397 x weight in kg) + (4.799 x height in cm) - (5.677 x age in years)

BMR is the basic metabolic rate. using 67 kilos, 185 cm and 30 years you get ~1700 kcal. then you multiply this by an activity factor, which is usualy 1.8-2 for athletes. I used 2.5 has an overestimation, so you get ~4250 kcal. This is the calculation for an average day. I'm sure he will eat more on trainning days then on rest days, but it will average around 4250 kcal.

Also, you can't accurately calculate the calories spent during exercise just based on time and watts.

and even if your calculations were correct: 1700+3600 = 5300, which is still way bellow 8000 kcal and consistent with my initial guess of 5000-6000 kcal a day.

Uses an "activity factor" to calculate BMR.
Claims "actual work done" is an inaccurate way to calculate calories expended.

Goodness.

I wonder how my friends wendybnt, laurel1969 and others are going.

 

[Maxiton]

Re: Re:

Not sure where you're getting your formulae, but if you race for 5 hours and average 200W you need 5x3600x200 = 3600 calories just to replace the exercise related output, ignoring your daily "this is how my body stays alive" calories.

I think your math is wrong. The formula and its outcome do not jibe and make no sense.

My math is right.

How does 5x3600x200 = 3600?

 

[meat puppet]

The unit should be kilo calories instead of calories?

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

Seriously folks, there is no excess weight to eliminate beyond what you can do by simply taking a dump.

https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/colon-cleanses-a-load-of-you-know-what/

http://www.scientificamerican.com/podcast/episode/study-says-to-avoid-colon-cleanses-11-08-03/

not the premise.

the theory behind Wiggins theory is there will be 300 grams of waste product in your system 24-7, and if you remove the 300 grams, and bypass the gut, and you can directly deposit the energy in your system, you have removed this 300 grams of excess weight.

The idea that this would have a performance benefit seems absurd.

It would improve the w/kg number surely? Not by much but every little bid adds up. Does seem an extreme length to go to though.

marginal stools are still marginal gains.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

The unit should be kilo calories instead of calories?

Bingo bingo
5x3600x200 = 3,600,000 calories = 3600 kcal

 

[carolina]

Re: Re:

I've used the Harris-Benedict formula:

BMR = 88.362 + (13.397 x weight in kg) + (4.799 x height in cm) - (5.677 x age in years)

BMR is the basic metabolic rate. using 67 kilos, 185 cm and 30 years you get ~1700 kcal. then you multiply this by an activity factor, which is usualy 1.8-2 for athletes. I used 2.5 has an overestimation, so you get ~4250 kcal. This is the calculation for an average day. I'm sure he will eat more on trainning days then on rest days, but it will average around 4250 kcal.

Also, you can't accurately calculate the calories spent during exercise just based on time and watts.

and even if your calculations were correct: 1700+3600 = 5300, which is still way bellow 8000 kcal and consistent with my initial guess of 5000-6000 kcal a day.

Uses an "activity factor" to calculate BMR.
Claims "actual work done" is an inaccurate way to calculate calories expended.

Goodness.

I wonder how my friends wendybnt, laurel1969 and others are going.

I didn't use an activity factor to obtain BMR, I used it to obtain the total daily calorie expenditure (TDEE).

The method I used is what every nutritionist uses. I have used several times to obtain TDEE estimations for different people and always with good results. The margin of error can go up to 300 or 400 kcal, but usually not more than that.
I also never claimed that I could calculate exactly how many calories they spend, this is just an edducated guess based on what I know and experienced. Your "actual work done" is also an approximation, that's why I said it was not accurate.

But please, feel free to explain to me where the 8000 kcal a day comes from, because I am actualy curious. I've made a quick google search and it seems my initial guess of 5000-6000 kcal a day is about right.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/active/recreational-cycling/11729780/6000-calories-What-a-Tour-de-France-rider-eats-in-just-one-day.html
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/racing/tour-de-france/this-is-what-you-have-to-eat-to-compete-in-the-tour-de-france-182775
http://www.businessinsider.com/how-many-calories-cyclists-in-the-tour-de-france-burn-2015-7

 

[Maxiton]

Re: Re:

The unit should be kilo calories instead of calories?

Bingo bingo
5x3600x200 = 3,600,000 calories = 3600 kcal

Guess I should have realized that.

 

[TheSpud]

Re: Re:

Seriously folks, there is no excess weight to eliminate beyond what you can do by simply taking a dump.

https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/colon-cleanses-a-load-of-you-know-what/

http://www.scientificamerican.com/podcast/episode/study-says-to-avoid-colon-cleanses-11-08-03/

not the premise.

the theory behind Wiggins theory is there will be 300 grams of waste product in your system 24-7, and if you remove the 300 grams, and bypass the gut, and you can directly deposit the energy in your system, you have removed this 300 grams of excess weight.

The idea that this would have a performance benefit seems absurd.

It would improve the w/kg number surely? Not by much but every little bid adds up. Does seem an extreme length to go to though.

marginal stools are still marginal gains.

Ha Ha - nice one

 

[TheSpud]

Re: Re:

The unit should be kilo calories instead of calories?

Bingo bingo
5x3600x200 = 3,600,000 calories = 3600 kcal

Guess I should have realized that.

To be honest cal / Kcal are interchanged so much nowadays its no surprise there was confusion.

3600 kcals seems conservative for an active person - thats only 720 per hour (12 / minute). I can do that on my spinning bike and I'm a (slightly) fat lardy git. I would have thought pro's would exercise at a higher level than that - even if its for 5 hours.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

It was a quick example. Here's one from Rogers.

http://home.trainingpeaks.com/athlete/workout/L6YTOWHQ7K7BDPFRHDHDQCCCUY

 

[zigmeister]

As I type this, I need to run to the restroom...be back soon.

 

[blackcat]

Did anyone notice this on Twatter last week :

Race Radio @TheRaceRadio

Who will be the first cycling reporter to write about the use of enemas prior to Grand Tours?

Joey D'Antoni ‏@jdanton @TheRaceRadio wait. Seriously?

Race Radio ‏@TheRaceRadio

@jdanton Yes, seriously. Sky, and others, use them. It sounds kinda odd but drops 2 kg fast

and later this

Tejay van Garderen

You must need a lot of enemas seeing as how you're so full of $h.t.

Race Radio @TheRaceRadio

Who will be the first cycling reporter to write about the use of enemas prior to Grand Tours?

Lance Armstrong ‏@lancearmstrong

@tejay_van @TheRaceRadio SPOT. ON. That just made my day.

https://twitter.com/tejay_van/status/705754833773568000

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enema

gr8 OP

 

[PremierAndrew]

This thread, lmao

 

[Random Direction]

So, what drugs that used to be injected but are no longer due to the no needles policy, are now taken by cyclists through enemas? Something water or oil soluble, and not effectively taken orally or through inhalation.

Any guesses? (Or suppositions if you wish...)

 

[Random Direction]

Re:

So, what drugs that used to be injected but are no longer due to the no needles policy, are now taken by cyclists through enemas? Something water or oil soluble, and not effectively taken orally or through inhalation.

Any guesses? (Or suppositions if you wish...)

1. Cortisone enema. https://www.drugs.com/pro/hydrocortisone-enema.html Could be effectively covered for most of the glow time by a TUE like Froome's, with much higher efficacy.

 

[slowup_fastdown]

Re: Re:

So, what drugs that used to be injected but are no longer due to the no needles policy, are now taken by cyclists through enemas? Something water or oil soluble, and not effectively taken orally or through inhalation.

Any guesses? (Or suppositions if you wish...)

1. Cortisone enema. https://www.drugs.com/pro/hydrocortisone-enema.html Could be effectively covered for most of the glow time by a TUE like Froome's, with much higher efficacy.

Does anyone have photos of pros who look like they just took a bulb of cortisone up the date? Now that would make a great new Clinic thread!