EPO, Blood Doping and Freediving

[Mongol_Waaijer]

I have just completed the 2 star AIDA Freediving course off the Red Sea coast of Egypt, and having raced bikes for many years, and knowing a fair bit about doping I was immediately intrigued by the possible impact of blood doping on this fantastic sport.

The feats of the best divers are based on storing as much oxygen as possible, using it as efficiently (slowly) as they can, and tolerating high levels of CO2 for long periods.

I'm hoping the more medically informed members can contribute, but seeing as oxygen is carried around the body in red blood cells, bonded with haemoglobin would boosting both of these artificially raise the oxygen storing and carrying capability of the body to enable a diver to swin deeper and longer?

Is an eight minute : static" breathhold credible in an era of blood doping in a sport that only tests urine? Or a 3min 30 "active" breathhold?

I mentioned this to the teacher, and he said that all freedivers are totally health conscious, yoga-doing calm "nice" guys who wouldn't cheat.....reminded me of plenty of comments i've heard from another sport....

However he then redeemed himself by saying "of course that's how Lance Armstrong won all those tours, blood doping, isn't it" ;-)

 

[elapid]

I spent some time (scuba) diving in the Caymans recently and they are very proud of their world champion free diver, Tanya Streeter. They describe some of her training techniques, such as running for as long as possible while holding her breath. And I thought cycling hurt sometimes! The major difference between cycling and free diving, other than the endurance factor, is that free diving is anaerobic whereas cycling is (mostly) aerobic. So free divers are trying to build up a tolerance to increased carbon dioxide, but you rightly point out that the higher the oxygen carrying capacity the longer it will take to get into an anaerobic state. According to the forum on http://www.deeperblue.com, there are rumours from 2008 that some free divers are/were using EPO to boost their performances.

 

[JPM London]

Isn't the reality most likely that to get at the top level it is completely necessary to do all the proper things you mention (I remember seeing a tv show once with this free diver who had the most amazing control of his abs). Then at that level you could possibly get your "marginal gains" using a bit of E and such.

Basically - there's no short cut, but there could (possibly) be an edge to gain...

 

[eleven]

I mentioned this to the teacher, and he said that all freedivers are totally health conscious, yoga-doing calm "nice" guys who wouldn't cheat.....reminded me of plenty of comments i've heard from another sport....

All riders are very health conscious. They train hours every day. They swear off sex. They increase cadence to increase efficiency and they benefit from the aggregation of marginal gains.

hmm...where have I heard this story before?

 

[forty four]

I have just completed the 2 star AIDA Freediving course off the Red Sea coast of Egypt, and having raced bikes for many years, and knowing a fair bit about doping I was immediately intrigued by the possible impact of blood doping on this fantastic sport.

The feats of the best divers are based on storing as much oxygen as possible, using it as efficiently (slowly) as they can, and tolerating high levels of CO2 for long periods.

I'm hoping the more medically informed members can contribute, but seeing as oxygen is carried around the body in red blood cells, bonded with haemoglobin would boosting both of these artificially raise the oxygen storing and carrying capability of the body to enable a diver to swin deeper and longer?

Is an eight minute : static" breathhold credible in an era of blood doping in a sport that only tests urine? Or a 3min 30 "active" breathhold?

I mentioned this to the teacher, and he said that all freedivers are totally health conscious, yoga-doing calm "nice" guys who wouldn't cheat.....reminded me of plenty of comments i've heard from another sport....

However he then redeemed himself by saying "of course that's how Lance Armstrong won all those tours, blood doping, isn't it" ;-)

yeah people do this for fun whatever. if high level competition is involved cheating is happening if there yoga doing nice guys they would not care what there times were related to others and would not be competing on an elite level wake up. oh wait la is the only bad guy lol. **** people are slow.

 

[NashbarShorts]

So Mongol, let's get to the really interesting part. After completing this course, how deep could you dive??

And did you see Simeoni down there (LA told him shut up or "sleep w/ the fishes")?

 

[python]

just a pure speculation on my part and since i never even thought of the subject i don't know even if it makes sense....

but wouldn't a subject's ability and the tolerance to store gas relate to the volume of extra and intra - cellular body fluids (mainly plasma) ?

the theory would be that the more fluid in the body, the more gas it could dissolve and store - o2 for use, co2 as a byproduct. the relative difference between gas pressure in the lungs and the target tissues would govern the rate of utilization and disposal.

so, under this assumption, i would reckon that any ped that can increase oxygen storage (either bound to hemoglobin or dissolved in the fluid) would be helpful to a diver.

yes, epo, pfc, plasma volume expanders etc should work imo.

 

[Mongol_Waaijer]

So Mongol, let's get to the really interesting part. After completing this course, how deep could you dive??

And did you see Simeoni down there (LA told him shut up or "sleep w/ the fishes")?

I made 22m a few times.....believe me, when you're down there, it feels pretty deep.

Course requirement was 16m, so I am happy.

It's weird though, to make that dive it's maybe a 40 second breath hold, but you can make much longer than that swimming horizontally just under the surface.

It's the fear that makes you use your stored oxygen faster.

 

[Cloxxki]

Interesting sport, props for that 22m!!

When I was youger I at times managed a bit over 4min of breath holding, totally relaxed, not under water. Under water swimming, I never went much beyond 25+5m or so. Under water in the swimming pool, 2min underwater is already quite an effort, swimming I can't imagine even close to 1min.
I bet all the all the "popular" methods will help tremendously for performance, yet of course not as much as the training for the sport itself.

Can't imagine how the body would feel, jacked up with an extra bag of blood, and all of that blood approaching 50% hematocrit. That's before you go into more advanced tricks. And a healthy guy at maybe 43% ht of non-cheated blood can already reach such highs...

 

[JPM London]

Turning it upside down:
Would cycling benefit from incorporating some of the training from diving?
If, so are some teams doing it?

Wow - I actually wrote something not related to doping in the clinic

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

22m! I'm impressed.

I used to be a very strong swimmer when young, and could swim down to about 20' or so and hold my breath for over two minutes (in a pool, relaxed, not swimming), but even the thought of getting to 16m seems daunting.