Eric Gagne - 80% of Dodger Players were HGH users

[Mrs John Murphy]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/2012/09/25/dodgers_eric_gagne_hgh_80_percent/

No doubt he will be labelled a 'bitter hater' by the media hacks and others.

Makes you wonder about what percentage of the peloton is using HGH.

 

[Berzin]

HgH has taken the place amphetamines used to occupy in major league locker rooms.

It gives a player the sensation of feeling rested and relieves muscle soreness, therefore players are more alert and have more pep in their step without the hyper-caffeinated sensations one gets from popping greenies.

 

[the big ring]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/2012/09/25/dodgers_eric_gagne_hgh_80_percent/

No doubt he will be labelled a 'bitter hater' by the media hacks and others.

Makes you wonder about what percentage of the peloton is using HGH.

What an awesome surname!

 

[sniper]

HgH has taken the place amphetamines used to occupy in major league locker rooms.

It gives a player the sensation of feeling rested and relieves muscle soreness, therefore players are more alert and have more pep in their step without the hyper-caffeinated sensations one gets from popping greenies.

would you reckon skinny guys like Wiggins could benefit from HGH, or would he be better off without, in order to avoid gaining weight?

 

[Mishrak]

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/mlb/...ercent-los-angeles-dodgers-teammates-were-hgh

Baseball began stricter testing in the spring of 2006. Players are subject to HGH testing during spring training and in the offseason, but not during the season.

Sounds like they're not very interested in having a clean sport to me. I guess banning entire teams during the regular season would kinda suck for the game huh?

 

[acoggan]

I don't find this surprising: you'd expect doping to be most prevalent in sports where lots of $$ is at stake and the athletes are protected by strong unions.

 

[the big ring]

I don't find this surprising: you'd expect doping to be most prevalent in sports where lots of $$ is at stake and the athletes are protected by strong unions.

why is that?

 

[sagard]

why is that?

You have to most $$$$ upside, and with a union preventing blood testing in season you have the least amount of risk.

American college football and the NFL are likely the worst.

 

[Nick C.]

why is that?

The MLB union for years worked to prevent drug testing. I forget the details now, but Donald Fehr the union leader (an attorney not a ballplayer fyi) had all the arguments, invasion of privacy, not dangerous etc. etc. Again I may be mis-remembering but I think it was only when Congress stuck their nose in it (mainly for self-publicity but still) that they took their head out of the sand.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

I don't find this surprising: you'd expect doping to be most prevalent in sports where lots of $$ is at stake and the athletes are protected by strong unions.

That doesn't follow - what about cycling, weightlifting, rowing etc where there are neither strong unions nor vast sums of money.

The Unions merely formalise what the membership think - Fehr was responding to the demands of his membership.

It is easy to blame the unions but look at how tennis players resist anti-doping measures.

Union bashing misses the point. The MLB authorities certainly aren't in any hurry to crackdown on dopers - especially if they are name players. What kind of ban did Alex Rodriguez serve for his doping?

 

[acoggan]

That doesn't follow - what about cycling, weightlifting, rowing etc where there are neither strong unions nor vast sums of money.

The Unions merely formalise what the membership think - Fehr was responding to the demands of his membership.

It is easy to blame the unions but look at how tennis players resist anti-doping measures.

Union bashing misses the point. The MLB authorities certainly aren't in any hurry to crackdown on dopers - especially if they are name players. What kind of ban did Alex Rodriguez serve for his doping?

I'm wasn't blaming unions, I was merely pointing out that the benefit:risk is tilted in favor of sports where salaries are high and penalties for doping are low.

 

[hiero2]

As self-conflicted as MLB is, it never surprises me that MLF (American), and ML basketball are almost certainly more tolerant. It might be BECAUSE some people in MLB care enough, that gives the sport it's schizoid doping position.

I find it slightly ironic that two sports with the dirtiest reps are probably two of the cleaner major sports out there - if you are willing to count horse racing as a sport. Horse racing and boxing - no hesitation about testing there. Unfortunately, as much as I like watching it, MMA seems to be going the road of pro wrestling - more entertainment than substance. Not saying the MMA fights aren't real, they are, but most of the humans doing the fighting aren't. Of course, only IMO.

 

[Jeremiah]

HgH has taken the place amphetamines used to occupy in major league locker rooms.

It gives a player the sensation of feeling rested and relieves muscle soreness, therefore players are more alert and have more pep in their step without the hyper-caffeinated sensations one gets from popping greenies.

Increases visual acuity.

http://www.outsideonline.com/fitness/Drug-Test.html?page=all

Then I started to realize that my eyesight really was improving. I'd been thinking about getting glasses to read fine print on maps, but now there was no need. The glasses I used for night driving stayed in the glove compartment, unused, unnecessary.

Barry Bonds already had great eyesight. Hgh made it even better.

Ted Williams was known to have 20/5 vision. Can make great hitters and fighter pilots....

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

I'm wasn't blaming unions, I was merely pointing out that the benefit:risk is tilted in favor of sports where salaries are high and penalties for doping are low.

I don't think salaries have anything to do with it but rather the risk of being caught.

Afterall, why would anyone dope in a masters event or in weightlifting where the rewards are minimal?

 

[hiero2]

I don't find this surprising: you'd expect doping to be most prevalent in sports where lots of $$ is at stake and the athletes are protected by strong unions.

That doesn't follow - what about cycling, weightlifting, rowing etc where there are neither strong unions nor vast sums of money.

The Unions merely formalise what the membership think - Fehr was responding to the demands of his membership.

It is easy to blame the unions but look at how tennis players resist anti-doping measures.

Union bashing misses the point. The MLB authorities certainly aren't in any hurry to crackdown on dopers - especially if they are name players. What kind of ban did Alex Rodriguez serve for his doping?

Actually, I agree with both of you this time. Acoggan has a point - hi benefit, low risk. However, MJM has a point - a strong union does not by default = low risk. If the union leadership decides to stand on the side of dopers, and no testing, THEN the strong union reduces the player risk.

And also obviously, although $$$ increases the benefit, it is far from the only motivation. Competitive athletes have stronger than average motivations to COMPETE and WIN. I think we can agree that doping in cx skiing was not motivated by dollars, but a desire to win (as an example).

Oh - and one other minor point. I don't think we can use cycling as an example of a sport that doesn't have large $$ at stake any more. Unless you want to talk about women's cycling?

from MJM

don't think salaries have anything to do with it but rather the risk of being caught.

Afterall, why would anyone dope in a masters event or in weightlifting where the rewards are minimal?

You have a point, but it would be disingenuous to think that money does not also play a large role. In cycling - our sport - significant doping became more prevalent when salaries and team budgets went up. When you have money, it is easier to get dope, and to afford sophisticated techniques to avoid detection.

 

[Slava101]

Doesn't seem that much of a shocking headline to me. HGH was notoriously difficult to detect until very recently and even now the tests can only go back a few weeks I believe.

If HGH use was the difference between a chance of playing Major League rather than being a Minor league ball player I can see why it would be a tempting decision.

 

[DirtyWorks]

would you reckon skinny guys like Wiggins could benefit from HGH, or would he be better off without, in order to avoid gaining weight?

HGH is a huge benefit to cyclists at below-postive amounts over a period of time. Never tested positive and more rested and recovered than your clean competitor over even short periods of time. ex. 1 week

Where the benefits really kick in would be months of low-dosage use.

 

[Berzin]

Would you reckon skinny guys like Wiggins could benefit from HGH, or would he be better off without, in order to avoid gaining weight?

At smaller doses used daily, the benefits are excellent for a cyclist, especially in the recovery phase of a cyclists' daily routine.

And I've never heard weight gain being a side effect of HgH usage. Then again we're talking about doses much smaller than baseball and football players would use.

 

[the delgados]

The MLB union for years worked to prevent drug testing. I forget the details now, but Donald Fehr the union leader (an attorney not a ballplayer fyi) had all the arguments, invasion of privacy, not dangerous etc. etc. Again I may be mis-remembering but I think it was only when Congress stuck their nose in it (mainly for self-publicity but still) that they took their head out of the sand.

Your are mis-remembering.
Fehr played a role in the implementation of drug testing, but the policy is an absolute joke.
Both the owners and the union are responsible perpetuating the myth that PED's are no longer a problem in baseball.

 

[BYOP88]

That doesn't follow - what about cycling, weightlifting, rowing etc where there are neither strong unions nor vast sums of money.

The Unions merely formalise what the membership think - Fehr was responding to the demands of his membership.

It is easy to blame the unions but look at how tennis players resist anti-doping measures.

Union bashing misses the point. The MLB authorities certainly aren't in any hurry to crackdown on dopers - especially if they are name players. What kind of ban did Alex Rodriguez serve for his doping?

He didn't, on the grounds there were no punishments for this sort of activity at the time he got 'caught'. It's only been recently that the 3 strikes scheme has been in play, and that policy is this, 1st time 50 game ban, 2nd time 100 games, 3rd time you're gone.

Baseball isn't really that bothered about drugs per se, for example Melky Cabrera of the San Francisco Giants got caught for using a banned substance this year, but could still have won the batting title as his average(.346) is still .010 ahead of his nearest challenger, instead of the players union/office of the Commissioner saying he couldn;t win it, he had to ask the union to remove him from consideration, if he does end up with the best average.

 

[veganrob]

As self-conflicted as MLB is, it never surprises me that MLF (American), and ML basketball are almost certainly more tolerant. It might be BECAUSE some people in MLB care enough, that gives the sport it's schizoid doping position.

I find it slightly ironic that two sports with the dirtiest reps are probably two of the cleaner major sports out there - if you are willing to count horse racing as a sport. Horse racing and boxing - no hesitation about testing there. Unfortunately, as much as I like watching it, MMA seems to be going the road of pro wrestling - more entertainment than substance. Not saying the MMA fights aren't real, they are, but most of the humans doing the fighting aren't. Of course, only IMO.

Horse racing is dirty as any sport there is. Trainers and veterinarians are still two years ahead of tests. There is also not as much money available for testing as other major human sports. I know trainers that were giving their horses EPO and Ritalin in the mid 90's. Never got caught.

 

[MarkvW]

I don't find this surprising: you'd expect doping to be most prevalent in sports where lots of $$ is at stake and the athletes are protected by strong unions.

I totally agree. It is interesting, also, that Gagne notes that the drug abuse harmed his health. The players apparently do not care about that. Their collective interest appears to be very short term.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

As self-conflicted as MLB is, it never surprises me that MLF (American), and ML basketball are almost certainly more tolerant. It might be BECAUSE some people in MLB care enough, that gives the sport it's schizoid doping position.

I find it slightly ironic that two sports with the dirtiest reps are probably two of the cleaner major sports out there - if you are willing to count horse racing as a sport. Horse racing and boxing - no hesitation about testing there. Unfortunately, as much as I like watching it, MMA seems to be going the road of pro wrestling - more entertainment than substance. Not saying the MMA fights aren't real, they are, but most of the humans doing the fighting aren't. Of course, only IMO.

I think you are being more than a bit naive about boxing.

There has been a recent rash of positive tests, but that's something of a fluke given that there is essentially no OOC testing to speak of. There's no overarching governing body and rival promoters essentially control the sport. Positives are a disaster for promoters.

 

[Jalina]

As self-conflicted as MLB is, it never surprises me that MLF (American), and ML basketball are almost certainly more tolerant. It might be BECAUSE some people in MLB care enough, that gives the sport it's schizoid doping position.

I find it slightly ironic that two sports with the dirtiest reps are probably two of the cleaner major sports out there - if you are willing to count horse racing as a sport. Horse racing and boxing - no hesitation about testing there. Unfortunately, as much as I like watching it, MMA seems to be going the road of pro wrestling - more entertainment than substance. Not saying the MMA fights aren't real, they are, but most of the humans doing the fighting aren't. Of course, only IMO.

Up until recently, much of my life has been spent in horse racing. One of the closest people to me is a major player in the sport. Do not kid yourself horse racing is clean, either as far as the equines or the humans go. And the filth isn't only related to clinic issues. It is a sport that is dirty in any way in which it is possible to be dirty. I've seen and heard things that have made me vomit in the back of my mouth on more than one occasion (sorry for the visual). Memories... I need a shower.

 

[blackcat]

Union bashing misses the point. The MLB authorities certainly aren't in any hurry to crackdown on dopers - especially if they are name players. What kind of ban did Alex Rodriguez serve for his doping?

A night or two in bed with that blonde bimbo who Sophia Coppola likes to rip a new one... https://www.google.com.au/search?q=...pw.r_qf.&fp=89d49de6c843c26c&biw=1467&bih=873