I'm talking about open road racing here, this minute, not time trialing, And if you're thinking that was Tadej's best effort... yeah, no. Tell you what, I'll use a couple less "O's" ok? So instead of "SOOOO much better", it can be "SOO much better." Ok by me.
He had a 58" after the climb (7 km to the finish). He lost 27" on a 1.5 km descent and 5.5 flat section, do you really think it was just 5-10"? Please, leave the wonderland.
There wasn't much available for viewing here except some highlights including the climb that Remco detached from Tadej. I think there was still some 4-5km to the summit. When he dropped off he looked back to gauge how much help was coming. Presumably some of those dropped riders assisted as Ayuso claimed to do.
No he didn't say that, he said he was trying to help, like he was trying to help Del Toro at Giro, like he was trying to help Almeida at Vuelta, like he was trying to help UAE and his teammates when he held the now famous " dictatorship " media exchange..
cyclinguptodate.com
Well, that's not what i said. Merckx was also much more dominant than Pogacar, he actually won more than 1 TT per year and he also won bunch sprints of over 50 riders. Even full on peloton sprints. He was also successful on the track and also had the world hour record. But yes, you can't compare it because he was racing in a time when riders were smoking and even putting alcohol in their bottles. Merckx even was on cigarette adverts. He did still win so much more than Pog though.
That's strange. All the Belgian and Slovenian experts also expected medals... and they got them. Hmmm... i wonder...
Agreed. However, those who didn't even try to follow him weren't doing better too. Pogacar is just miles better than the rest when we talk about w/kg. He is almost riding a zone below his rivals the entire race. Even on the big climb, he gained 35" but it's clear his rivals went deeper to maintain the gap "short".
It did indeed end badly but not the way they wanted.
They use both climbs for the Faun-Ardeche classic.
www.procyclingstats.com
Sorry but this doesn't make sense. Pog is riding as hard as needed to keep that 1 minute buffer. I'm sure he would hit a certain limit (as in: even when he would like to, he wouldn't be able to extend his lead to 3 minutes), but he seemed comfortable with his 1 minute gap and the more to the end, the less buffer he needs. He won't try to get a 2 minute gap just for the sake of it, because why would he go more into the red if the end result is the same (= he wins the race comfortably)?
I don't know about the Tour but it's the same circuit as you get in the Faun-Ardeche Classic in February/March.
Yes. ChatGPT also informs like that, both climb used in Ardèche Classic. Both climbs sit in southern Ardèche, a region often skirted by the Tour but rarely entered deeply;They use both climbs for the Faun-Ardeche classic.
Stage profiles Faun-Ardèche Classic 2025 One day race
Stage profile, mountains profiles, final five kilometre profile, race map, steepness percentage profiles for Faun-Ardèche Classic 2025.
Personally, I would love to see some sort of line drawn (that would be a massive argument in and of itself, of course) between the "old days" and the new with respect to judging riders palmares. It's utterly unfair imho to be comparing Pogacar to Merckx; the fact is, if Eddy were riding today there is zero chance he'd match the palmares of the Eddy of old in this age of specialization and professionalism. Of course he would be great, but he sure as hell would not amass 525 wins, he wouldn't be riding track races in the winter, etc. I saw someone comment (maybe a year ago? Not going to try to look for it) to the extent that Tadej had a "long ways to go" before he even matched Fausto Coppi. I did some research, and just at random picked the 1940 Giro d'Italia. There were 91 starters, and every stage winner was Italian, no winners from any other nation. Out of those 91 starters, how many of those riders would even be considered much more than club riders today? (Understand Coppi missed years due to the war, that's not the point here.) Or Alfredo Binda's Giro wins; picked 1925 at random, sure enough, all the participants were Italian, no international competitors, no teams.
Maybe it's more fair to turn it around as well: How much would Pog have won in the days of Merckx, on old steel bikes, bad hotels without airco during the Tour, unfomfortable clothing, having to change your tubulars when flatting during training rides, without altitude camps and sunny winter training stints in southern Spain but only CX and track to keep you fit? Would Pog even have made it into the pro ranks having to fight his way through amateur races where, in those days, GT -focused riders weren't thriving?
That argument holds up poorly for most of today's best riders, especially Evenepoel - among many others - comes to mind. Pog on the other hand would most likely have been doing really well under such adverse conditions along with riders like Mads Pedersen, Wout van Aert and Van der Poel.
I think you're creating a bit of a straw man here; my argument had essentially nothing at all to do with technology, new or old, but rather, simply level and quality of competition. Given that Pog is clearly a phenomenal one day racer as well as GT rider, had he wanted to do so, I have no doubt whatsoever he would have been considered an historical great regardless of which time period he competed in. I said in my post I was quite certain that the historical greats would have also been standout riders of today, simply that it was not fair to compare eras due to the level of competition. Even if riders of today were riding old steel frames with two gears, and no one was doing altitude camps, it would STILL be harder today due to the much more international nature of the sport, and the much greater number of riders treating the preparation in a much more professional manner. TOUGHNESS is a characteristic outside of time, and no one is going to tell me Pog isn't arguably as tough as anyone, now, or historically.
This gets confusing. What exactly are you comparing, again? You leave out altitude camps but include more professional preparation... I would consider altitude camps part of that.
I thought we were comparing Pog with Merckx? Why are you mentioning others now?
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