Commentary on TNT and other WB brands

[The Principal Sheep]

Yes I have.
But your reading comprehension is preventing you to notice.

No matter how much you try to simplify the meaning it still wouldn't cover what you, sorry, what sensitive others might regard as racism. Perhaps you could speak with your delicate associates and explain that some tolerance may be useful when dealing with people from other cultures/nationalities.

 

[Gugashwill]

No matter how much you try to simplify the meaning it still wouldn't cover what you, sorry, what sensitive others might regard as racism. Perhaps you could speak with your delicate associates and explain that some tolerance may be useful when dealing with people from other cultures/nationalities.

You're right. It's about tolerance and awareness of cultural differences.
And about (lack) of that awareness I'm talking about.
You're just relativising, trivializing and spinning it.

According to your interpretation, inmates in concentration camps should have had understanding for psychopathic urges of their capos.

 

[Cyivel]

Oh dear ...

 

[The Principal Sheep]

You're right. It's about tolerance and awareness of cultural differences.
And about (lack) of that awareness I'm talking about.
You're just relativising, trivializing and spinning it.

According to your interpretation, inmates in concentration camps should have had understanding for psychopathic urges of their capos.

I am right and thank you for saying so, perhaps if you showed some of that tolerance and awareness we would have been spared this nonsense.

I will of course ignore your second paragraph as I have no wish to follow your lead and trivialise such horrific events.

 

[Gugashwill]

I am right and thank you for saying so, perhaps if you showed some of that tolerance and awareness we would have been spared this nonsense.

I will of course ignore your second paragraph as I have no wish to follow your lead and trivialise such horrific events.

You're ignoring the logic, not the events.
You have to understand the roles in context in order to rightly address a call for tolerance.
You're just not able to do so.

Trying to explain you something really is senseless.

 

[Microchip]

Saw some ESPN coverage this morning, and the commentator was delightful. Actually I have no idea who he was as I was busy at the time and couldn’t give the race any sit-down type of attention, but anyway, back to the commentator. He got so into the stage finish that 1) I thought he was going to get a heart attack!!!! and 2) I couldn’t understand a single word any longer as the pre-heart-threat excitement got right in the way. The enthusiasm was terrific!!

(((((-:

Anyway, I’d like to make a suggestion please. I had on 3 live commentaries - one of them was Charles Pelkey’s “live guy”. That software looks really nice and it allows persons to submit comments.

So, to my suggestion:

Can a similar page be set up where some knowledgeable posters here (see the Trivia thread for the cycling geniuses among us!!!!!!) can take the lead in commenting as the race goes on?

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Saw some ESPN coverage this morning, and the commentator was delightful. Actually I have no idea who he was as I was busy at the time and couldn’t give the race any sit-down type of attention, but anyway, back to the commentator. He got so into the stage finish that 1) I thought he was going to get a heart attack!!!! and 2) I couldn’t understand a single word any longer as the pre-heart-threat excitement got right in the way. The enthusiasm was terrific!!

(((((-:

Anyway, I’d like to make a suggestion please. I had on 3 live commentaries - one of them was Charles Pelkey’s “live guy”. That software looks really nice and it allows persons to submit comments.

So, to my suggestion:

Can a similar page be set up where some knowledgeable posters here (see the Trivia thread for the cycling geniuses among us!!!!!!) can take the lead in commenting as the race goes on?

There is a live race chat in another forum..if you want that. I dont know why CN doesn't do it.

 

[Microchip]

There is a live race chat in another forum..if you want that. I dont know why CN doesn't do it.

Are Netserk, Libertine Seguros, kingjr, Afrank and you others there?

I agree with your suggestion about CN doing one.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Are Netserk, Libertine Seguros, kingjr, Afrank and you others there?

I agree with your suggestion about CN doing one.

I used to be there but have been staying away this TDF.here, there and twitter.

 

[Kingsley A]

Yes, really.

Who are you to demand an explanation, and why should I explain anything to you?
But I'll do it, just to show you that I know what I'm talking about.

First of all, I wrote: "More sensitive viewers would call him a racist."
I didn't make an allegation that he is a racist, so I should defend my stance by your demand, just a remark that some viewers might be offended and understand his comments in racist way.

I'll continue the explanation with this:

There is no problem if you do it like a private person in informal communication, but if you are an official voice of international company it becomes a problem.
We're talking about tendency to assimilate everything in somebody's own cultural frame, neglecting object's identity and identity of those (in any way) related with the object (relatives, fans, compatriots...), thus negating their singularity as a cultural group, thus insulting them on a very fundamental basis of identity.
That way of perceiving things also points out the own cultural frame as a reference and dominant one. It's cultural racism.
Once again to repeat, not everyone would take it that way, but there are some certainly, and it's a problem 'cause he's not chatting with buddies in a pub, but commenting to multicultural, multimillion audience.
Clear?

No!
I recall Jens Voigt commenting that he is no longer sure how his surname is meant to be pronounced as he has heard it pronounced so many different ways by people from different regions. Sociology, anthropology and especially linguistics are incredibly complex areas of study. I certainly agree that any commentator or journalist should attempt to pronounce a person's name as close to the way they pronounce it themselves but it isn't always easy. One needs to undertake at least a minimal study of how humans learn language and mimic sounds before throwing out such wild and based in fact comments.

Of course if you had suggested that the commentators were too lazy to learn the proper pronunciation I would have agreed with you 100%. What you describe is laziness not racism.
That said it still should be condemned in those who are broadcasting to millions across the world, just not in the inflammatory way you did it.

 

[Kingsley A]

Still off topic but considerably less off topic than my previous post:- Phil Ligget made one of the worst mistakes I have ever heard in cycling commentary on Stage 1 when he announced that Andrew Talansky was pulling on the front for Saxobank!
(There were a lot of Saxo-Tinkoff riders at the front at the time but can such a schoolboy-error be forgiven? Especially when it just the latest in a long line?

 

[argyllflyer]

Rob Hatch is one of the commentators who makes an attempt to use local pronunciations for riders and teams alike and it's very refreshing. Carlton's a bit inconsistent with the accent he uses. Pierre Rolland is always said as a Frenchman would say it, but not Thomas Voeckler.

He does need to be told that Saur no longer sponsors Sojasun though.

More generally, does Vincenzo of Astana really call himself 'Nibbely'?

 

[Gugashwill]

No!
I recall Jens Voigt commenting that he is no longer sure how his surname is meant to be pronounced as he has heard it pronounced so many different ways by people from different regions. Sociology, anthropology and especially linguistics are incredibly complex areas of study. I certainly agree that any commentator or journalist should attempt to pronounce a person's name as close to the way they pronounce it themselves but it isn't always easy. One needs to undertake at least a minimal study of how humans learn language and mimic sounds before throwing out such wild and based in fact comments.

Of course if you had suggested that the commentators were too lazy to learn the proper pronunciation I would have agreed with you 100%. What you describe is laziness not racism.
That said it still should be condemned in those who are broadcasting to millions across the world, just not in the inflammatory way you did it.

If we're going to take Jensie's jokes as a criteria, then we're far from serious discussion.
I've clearly described logic and mechanisms of the phenomenon. You can argue and don't agree with a racist qualification, but can't with explanation of the phenomenon.
Also, I've never accused the man for racism, just explained how his behavior can be interpreted that way.
He pronounces Spanish and Italian names very well, or at least he's very well trying, so he should make the same effort in all other cases. Otherwise he could be considered disrespectful and biased.

 

[scholar]

Also, I've never accused the man for racism, just explained how his behavior can be interpreted that way.

You haven't explained anything. I still don't think 'explain' means what you think it means.

Otherwise he could be considered disrespectful and biased.

He 'could be considered' a great many things. If you think he's disrespectful and biased, then come out and say it. If you don't, then why are you quoting hypothetical people whose opinions are wrong?

 

[The Principal Sheep]

I've clearly described logic and mechanisms of the phenomenon. You can argue and don't agree with a racist qualification, but can't with explanation of the phenomenon.

If you are referring to your earlier comments then they have little to do with what you originally mentioned. The mispronunciation of names in a sporting occasion can hardly be construed as the trampling of differing cultures or the devaluing of a race/people as inferior.

Also, I've never accused the man for racism, just explained how his behavior can be interpreted that way.

I believe you were the one who brought it up here and no you haven’t.

He pronounces Spanish and Italian names very well, or at least he's very well trying, so he should make the same effort in all other cases. Otherwise he could be considered disrespectful and biased.

Considered disrespectful and biased? that could be a possibility but hardly cultural racism by Kirby now is it. Perhaps you could enlighten us as to which name(s) and cultures you feel he is discriminating against?

 

[Gugashwill]

You haven't explained anything. I still don't think 'explain' means what you think it means.



He 'could be considered' a great many things. If you think he's disrespectful and biased, then come out and say it. If you don't, then why are you quoting hypothetical people whose opinions are wrong?

I've asked you to point out mistakes in my understanding of the concept and discuss it. You've simply disappeared.
If you want to continue with this you'll have to bring up your stance, understandings and arguments.
I won't reply to you anymore if you keep disqualifying my opinion without providing arguments.

 

[Gugashwill]

If you are referring to your earlier comments then they have little to do with what you originally mentioned. The mispronunciation of names in a sporting occasion can hardly be construed as the trampling of differing cultures or the devaluing of a race/people as inferior.




I believe you were the one who brought it up here and no you haven’t.




Considered disrespectful and biased? that could be a possibility but hardly cultural racism by Kirby now is it. Perhaps you could enlighten us as to which name(s) and cultures you feel he is discriminating against?

Discussion with you ended yesterday after your vulgar trivialization. There you've showed all the width of your character.
You're not worth of attention.

 

[The Principal Sheep]

Discussion with you ended yesterday after your vulgar trivialization. There you've showed all the width of your character.
You're not worth of attention.

I thought it ended with you saying I was right in saying we should be more tolerant and then you sickeningly brought up concentration camps:

According to your interpretation, inmates in concentration camps should have had understanding for psychopathic urges of their capos.

You made it clear then by trying to associate a sports commentator to a capo in a concentration camp that you are someone with little substance.

Now do you have a name(s) for us?

 

[Gugashwill]

You made it clear then by trying to associate a sports commentator to a capo in a concentration camp that you are someone with little substance.

Now do you have a name(s) for us?

This is exactly what I mean when I'm mentioning "vulgar trivialization".
You're not familiar with figures of speech?

As for the name(s), you've already chosen one for yourself.
It's in your nickname.
And it fits you perfectly.

 

[argyllflyer]

Jeezo, Mike Smith's dubbing of Pierre Rolland and Co in 'The Ride' was like something out of Eurotrash.

 

[Kwibus]

Discussion with you ended yesterday after your vulgar trivialization. There you've showed all the width of your character.
You're not worth of attention.

Interesting new poster we got here. All arguments I've seen you in so far you eventually started insulting people.
Best of all you always start about their characters

Enjoy your time here

 

[The Principal Sheep]

This is exactly what I mean when I'm mentioning "vulgar trivialization".
You're not familiar with figures of speech?

Please, if you do not wish to take ownership for your own views and posts at least try and do better than illogical attempts at disparaging others.

As for the name(s), you've already chosen one for yourself.
It's in your nickname.
And it fits you perfectly.

Thank you, I like it, but I fear that once more your keen eye and sharp intellect has once more led you to misunderstand my original meaning.

 

[Gugashwill]

Please, if you do not wish to take ownership for your own views and posts at least try and do better than illogical attempts at disparaging others.



Thank you, I like it, but I fear that once more your keen eye and sharp intellect has once more led you to misunderstand my original meaning.

Reread this, Sheep.

 

[The Principal Sheep]

Reread this, Sheep.

Thanks, Gugashwill, but I’ve already read that post, insightful as it was, it still led us no closer as to what your claim of racism is against Kirby (yes, I remember you saying that I can find this out by taking you to court but that just seems a little excessive for a bit of forum banter don’t you think?).

 

[Gugashwill]

Thanks, Gugashwill, but I’ve already read that post, insightful as it was, it still led us no closer as to what your claim of racism is against Kirby (yes, I remember you saying that I can find this out by taking you to court but that just seems a little excessive for a bit of forum banter don’t you think?).

Any time, Sheep.