Euskaltel-Euskadi 2010

[A.Rabadan]

I like Euskaltel so much. They always fight when he go abroad, sepecially in the Tour de France, where he have to demonstarte on the Pyrenees.
Samuel Sanchez is his leader without doubts. But, anything else? Mikel Astarloza was a really good cyclist, but he got a positive in an antidoping control. Igor Antón haven't demostrate what he show promise in Calar Alto (2006 Vuelta a España)... Viewing this, there's a negative future for Igor González de Galdeano's team.

However, they have signed up three cyclists who give to the Basque suporters optimism, hoping to reach the 'Iban Mayo-Haimar Zubeldia-Roberto Laiseka' level.
First one, Jonathan Castroviejo (1987), a rider with good ITT's performances who had been 2nd last year in really important amateur races (Ronde de l'Isard and Circuito Montañés), and had won stages on Haute Anjou, Ronde de l'Isard and Tour de l'Avenir.
Second one, Beñat Intxausti (1986), a fantastic climber who has won in 2005, if I remember well, the 'Trofeo Lehendakari' (a prize who designed the best u-23 rider in Basque Country). He had been 5th in 2007 Tour del'Avenir, and later he hadn't been really good in Matxín teams for the doping affaires. His performance in the 2009 Vuelta's stage climbing Cresta de Gallo, roading to Murcia, is really encouraging. If he find peace in Euskaltel's roster, he will exploit.
And the third one, the famous Romain Sicard (1988). The rider who had done the best amateur season since Régis Ovion (winning Avenir and u-23 World Championship).

What do you think about?

 

[hoolaparara]

I understand Euskaltel are not riding the Giro, this will make it their second best GT performance of 2010.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Euskatel are...

... waste of space in the pro peleton
... Samuel Sanchez
... a team which only cares about spanish races

 

[josekaubeda]

Romain Sicard won too the last season "Subida al Naranco" and one stage at "Ronde l'Isard". Euskaltel can be competitive in sprints with Koldo Fernández.

 

[issoisso]

Euskatel are...

... waste of space in the pro peleton

... a team which only cares about spanish races

Yeah, I must've dreamt about their wins at the Tirreno, Tour de Suisse, Tour de France, etc.


Look, I don't like them either, and I have my reasons for it. But what you just posted is just wrong. No offence, it just is

 

[yetanothergreenworld]

Yeah, I too am puzzled by the hostility here. Euskatel will never amass a huge win list, but that's because they've limited themselves to such a small talent pool. It's like having a pro cycling team based entirely on riders raised in the greater Boulder area: you could do it, and you might win some grand tour stages, but it would never become Columbia HTC. I think it's debatable whether Euskatel actually belong in the ProTour (or whatever it is now), but they've certainly earned my respect as a worthy, perpetual underdog.

Also, they're virtually the only team out there cultivating the lost virtue of black shorts.

 

[Francois the Postman]

I quite like Euskaltel, and that is exactly because it is rooted in unashamed regionality (national to some I guess). It is great to see a team showing what you can still accomplish with local talent and strong local enthusiasm. It's even better to see people identify so strongly with, what really is. their team. Maybe even more Belgian than the Belgian teams, in that respect.

It's an attitude that should not be able to survive in modern cycling, with big sponsors and rider poaching, and I genuinely like that the team and its countless supporters manage to prove that you still can be reasonably successful that way, even if it does require exceptional talents like Mayo and Sanchez to pull it off, and remain in the picture.

It's also a team whose riders I know next to nothing about, as the English speaking press and their followers aren't exactly captured by the ins and outs of the Basque team. Even Contador gets less attention than anything that peeps English and came in 2 hours later, simply because interviewing him would require actual work for the media here.

I hope that there will be someone as talented, to take over from Sanchez in due course. Maybe it will be one of the trio that you mention. It's a team that needs an upcoming star rider more than most, as it would not be able to simply recruit talent from elsewhere. Without someone local taking over the flag at the helm, Euskaltel would be deprived from vital oxygen. And it would be weird to head into the Pyrenees with only the Dutch in orange (who have been world-beater deprived for ages, but were able to stock their "national" team with contenders from abroad to tick them over until the new dawn, which might actually be tantalisingly near once again).

Are these 3 likely to feature in the Vuelta al Pais Vasco? If they do, thanks for pointing them out. When their names flash up on the screen, at least I'll know a bit more about them than I would otherwise.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Yeah, I must've dreamt about their wins at the Tirreno, Tour de Suisse, Tour de France, etc.


Look, I don't like them either, and I have my reasons for it. But what you just posted is just wrong. No offence, it just is

They one a stage or two here and there but nothing much... Their stage win at the tour was by Astarloza who was a doper. You definetly dreamt their stge wins at the tour de suisse and tirrenno this year as all they one in those two races was a mountains jersey....

 

[Francois the Postman]

Which is probably why he didn't say "this year". That's something that you just added there and then blasted him for "dreaming". You pick/create a strange fight here, when the OP hardly gave you a reason to, and a follow up also isn't saying want you make it out to be.

You don't like Euskaltel, fine. No obligation to.

But a relatively new poster here is curious how others see a couple of young riders on a team he has obvious enthusiasm for. Quite rightly. You certainly enjoy an enthusiasm for your fav, I have mine. He has his.

But I had hoped to find out more about this team. I warmly welcome and hope to see more posts on teams like this. I can think of any reason to actively discourage these posts and posters.

We have enough threads on the latest farts of Lance/Wiggins/Evans/Et-Al. Here we have a non-English poster who actually knows the team in question well, and certainly show a bit more awareness of their actual input than you just did. I hope he keeps posting, although I suspect he probably wonders why he bothered trying now.

And if you folllow this forum closely, by now you'd realize that Issoisso's post show he knows more than a fair bit about cycling too (and is quite respectful to other posters to boot). I'd say that the chances are that anyone would have to twist his words beyond obvious intention, before you can make an easy swing like you just did. So you fabricated a stance he never took, swung for effect, and never took time to think "hang on, is he saying what i think he is saying" befor hitting submit.

That 2009 wasn't a year in which Euskaltel was successful or very visible is neither here nor there. It's a long way from an off-season in one year to "a waste of space". For a team that limits its pool to a particular region, it has thrown up some great cycling names already, and no doubt more will follow.

I though you of all people would know how short the route from slightly disappointing and below their usual standard, to greatness can be.

It's a shame that no-one has offered anything more insightful into the state of team Euskaltel beyond the OP. I was pleased the thread appeared, and curious what folk had added already, as it's something that actually interests me. Seems that folk with something actually worthwhile and interesting to say about Euskaltel 2010, and the willingness to do so, are thin on the ground here. Pity, as its kinda why I like this forum, that there are plenty of folk who know far more than I do.

We have so many teams in cylcing. And only threads and general coverage on a couple of them, the bloody obvious ones at that.

To me that is all the more reason to encourage new posters from a region whose voices hardly ever trickle through to the eternally obsessed with anything that is English-speaking.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Which is probably why he didn't say "this year". That's something that you just added there and then blasted him for "dreaming". You pick/create a strange fight here, when the OP hardly gave you a reason to, and a follow up also isn't saying want you make it out to be.

You don't like Euskaltel, fine. No obligation to.

But a relatively new poster here is curious how others see a couple of young riders on a team he has obvious enthusiasm for. Quite rightly. You certainly enjoy an enthusiasm for your fav, I have mine. He has his.

But I had hoped to find out more about this team. I warmly welcome and hope to see more posts on teams like this. I can think of any reason to actively discourage these posts and posters.

We have enough threads on the latest farts of Lance/Wiggins/Evans/Et-Al. Here we have a non-English poster who actually knows the team in question well, and certainly show a bit more awareness of their actual input than you just did. I hope he keeps posting, although I suspect he probably wonders why he bothered trying now.

And if you folllow this forum closely, by now you'd realize that Issoisso's post show he knows more than a fair bit about cycling too (and is quite respectful to other posters to boot). I'd say that the chances are that anyone would have to twist his words beyond obvious intention, before you can make an easy swing like you just did. So you fabricated a stance he never took, swung for effect, and never took time to think "hang on, is he saying what i think he is saying" befor hitting submit.

That 2009 wasn't a year in which Euskaltel was successful or very visible is neither here nor there. It's a long way from an off-season in one year to "a waste of space". For a team that limits its pool to a particular region, it has thrown up some great cycling names already, and no doubt more will follow.

I though you of all people would know how short the route from slightly disappointing and below their usual standard, to greatness can be.

It's a shame that no-one has offered anything more insightful into the state of team Euskaltel beyond the OP. I was pleased the thread appeared, and curious what folk had added already, as it's something that actually interests me. Seems that folk with something actually worthwhile and interesting to say about Euskaltel 2010, and the willingness to do so, are thin on the ground here. Pity, as its kinda why I like this forum, that there are plenty of folk who know far more than I do.

We have so many teams in cylcing. And only threads and general coverage on a couple of them, the bloody obvious ones at that.

To me that is all the more reason to encourage new posters from a region whose voices hardly ever trickle through to the eternally obsessed with anything that is English-speaking.

A few inaccuracies in your post,

1) i did not blast issoisio or anyone else in this thread but merely viewed and voiced an opinion
2) never created a fight but made a point of what i thought about euskatel which is not much.
3) if someone doesn't like my fav rider(s) or team well good for them and I will question them on their approach or viewpoint. just making a point about euskatel who are really not giving much to the protour.
4) If people care so much about what people say about others then you really need to get a life and grow up.

Please don't tell me how to post as I have been on here long enough to know how to post properley.

 

[Francois the Postman]

A few inaccuracies in your post,

1) i did not blast issoisio or anyone else in this thread but merely viewed and voiced an opinion

No, you said issoisio was dreaming, insinuating strongly he was making it up, rather than giving his informed counter to your wild claim, apparently relegating a team that produced riders like Sanchez and Mayo to a pure waste of space.

My point isn't that you posted an opinion to the OP, to which you are entitled. My point is a more general one, which I now fear you totally missed by taking my response so personal. If I wasn't clear about that, my excuses.

This thread was a perfect demonstration of a frustration I have here. That your reply and others like it are hardly the way to make this forum more interesting and welcoming to people who bring something worthwhile with them, insight and enthusiasm for something you don't here about often on this forum.

I just hope the OP keeps posting, and stated why I value his input a lot.

2) never created a fight but made a point of what i thought about euskatel which is not much.

No, you picked a fight by fabricating words for another poster, who simply countered the strong negative assertions you made about Euskaltel. He countered your claim with real life data that showed how odd the claim was to him (and me).

Instead of addressing his points, you attempted to make the counter-claim look simply ridiculous, by inserting "this year". Trying to settle it by suggesting you were talking from a superior knowledge base, from authority. When it was pretty obvious he knew what he was talking about, and covered a longer period than one year, if you are familiar with the results he was referring to directly. And not going back all that long either.

4) If people care so much about what people say about others then you really need to get a life and grow up. Please don't tell me how to post as I have been on here long enough to know how to post properley.

It would be nice if that posting attitude could include the ability to keep it civil. I have not questioned your mental age or what state your life is in. I'd appreciate the same treatment.

If it hasn't twigged by now why I am concerned about the effect the responses in this thread have on "others", the OP in particular, it might be nice to take my initial post a bit less personal, and read it again.

Hey, I have no cause to get into a spat with you over this. I do read your posts, I certainly don't always agree with your POV, but you do bring stuff to my attention that I otherwise wouldn't find that easily. Hopefully I have clarified what my beef with your response was. This will be the last I say about this, before this becomes some surreal spat in a thread I was hoping to enjoy.

 

[craig1985]

I admire the team. Although Paul Sherwin going on about how they are a team of climbers is as getting as tiresome as his remarks that Egoi Martinez rode for Lance Armstrong (he never did), and that Armstrong came to raise awareness for cancer.

BTW what has happened with Anton? He rode well in the 2008 Vuelta until he crashed out.

 

[auscyclefan94]

No, you said issoisio was dreaming, insinuating strongly he was making it up, rather than giving his informed counter to your wild claim, apparently relegating a team that produced riders like Sanchez and Mayo to a pure waste of space.

My point isn't that you posted an opinion to the OP, to which you are entitled. My point is a more general one, which I now fear you totally missed by taking my response so personal. If I wasn't clear about that, my excuses.

This thread was a perfect demonstration of a frustration I have here. That your reply and others like it are hardly the way to make this forum more interesting and welcoming to people who bring something worthwhile with them, insight and enthusiasm for something you don't here about often on this forum.

I just hope the OP keeps posting, and stated why I value his input a lot.



No, you picked a fight by fabricating words for another poster, who simply countered the strong negative assertions you made about Euskaltel. He countered your claim with real life data that showed how odd the claim was to him (and me).

Instead of addressing his points, you attempted to make the counter-claim look simply ridiculous, by inserting "this year". Trying to settle it by suggesting you were talking from a superior knowledge base, from authority. When it was pretty obvious he knew what he was talking about, and covered a longer period than one year, if you are familiar with the results he was referring to directly. And not going back all that long either.



It would be nice if that posting attitude could include the ability to keep it civil. I have not questioned your mental age or what state your life is in. I'd appreciate the same treatment.

If it hasn't twigged by now why I am concerned about the effect the responses in this thread have on "others", the OP in particular, it might be nice to take my initial post a bit less personal, and read it again.

Hey, I have no cause to get into a spat with you over this. I do read your posts, I certainly don't always agree with your POV, but you do bring stuff to my attention that I otherwise wouldn't find that easily. Hopefully I have clarified what my beef with your response was. This will be the last I say about this, before this becomes some surreal spat in a thread I was hoping to enjoy.

Perfect example of spining the facts around...

 

[auscyclefan94]

1) I never said issoisio was making his facts up. Just said their was a lack of research.You twisted my words. he never countered my claim with real life data. I do also respect issoisio opinion but had a disagreement. Nothing criminal in doing that,
2)Look at the results of past years in those races. Don't include dopers who had results from Euskatel.
3)My posts are civil, i just made my point assertively. Please tell me how I was rude to another poster. I have the rite to make an opinion and did so. never shut down anyone else.

 

[issoisso]

1) I never said issoisio was making his facts up. Just said their was a lack of research.You twisted my words. he never countered my claim with real life data.

You said they never cared about anything but spanish races. I countered with three important foreign races in which they've recently had great results.

You responded that I was dreaming because they didn't have any such wins this year. So you just inserted a convenient time period "this year" that no one had mentioned or limited the discussion to, just because it suited you. You also limited it to "wins", which wasn't the scope of the discussion. Again, because it suited you. (Although if it were wins, the examples I mentioned would still be apt)

That's pretty much the same as accusing me of making crap up, no?

2)Look at the results of past years in those races. Don't include dopers who had results from Euskatel.

Discounting proven dopers, they still had wins in all those races

 

[Angliru]

Personally I've been a avid follower of Euskatel Euskadi since Roberto Laiseka won Euskatel's first Tour stage, David Etxebarria was coming close to being the first Spaniard to win in the Ardennes, of course the performances of Iban Mayo at Dauphine in 2003 and 2004, coupled with Mayo and Haimar Zubeldia's Tour performance in 2003, highlighted by Mayo's win on Alpe d'Huez. I'm hoping that he makes a successful return to the sport.

Euskatel caught the French teams sleeping with their signing of Romain Sicard,
and I'm hoping that he's able to become a major player once he gets his feet wet competing with the elite of the sport.

I'm looking forward to Igor Anton having another season like he had the year he won an early summit stage of the Tour de Swiss and either made the podium or just missed it (can't remember which).

Much, much love for Euskatel. I ride an Orbea by the way so I'm a bit biased.(...along with a couple of vintage Cannondales).

 

[issoisso]

Personally I've been a avid follower of Euskatel Euskadi since Roberto Laiseka won Euskatel's first Tour stage, David Etxebarria was coming close to being the first Spaniard to win in the Ardennes, of course the performances of Iban Mayo at Dauphine in 2003 and 2004, coupled with Mayo and Haimar Zubeldia's Tour performance in 2003, highlighted by Mayo's win on Alpe d'Huez.

They did have quite a brilliant season in 2003. And were all-round solid in those years.

I'm hoping that he makes a successful return to the sport.

He's adamant he's not coming back. He wants to run his private businesses and keep out of the spotlight.

Euskatel caught the French teams sleeping with their signing of Romain Sicard

He's french basque. He always had a contract with the Fundación Euskadi, and rode for their feeder teams. This year they're promoting him from their continental feeder team (sponsored by Orbea) to their ProTour team (sponsored by Euskaltel). So, it wasn't really a signing

Either way, the french teams have made a point of not touching riders they don't trust, so they would never make him an offer, no matter how good their youth results are. It's the same reason Lhottelerie and others had to look abroad despite brilliant youth results.

and I'm hoping that he's able to become a major player once he gets his feet wet competing with the elite of the sport.

They're making a point of being patient with him, which is always nice and can only be good for his development. They also have to take some time to mould his temper. He's an attacking rider, which is nice to see, but he's too aggressive for his own good right now.

I remember back in February he had his first shot at riding against top pros at the Mallorca Challenge and on every single stage he attacked, blew up, and finished many minutes behind

I'm looking forward to Igor Anton having another season like he had the year he won an early summit stage of the Tour de Swiss and either made the podium or just missed it (can't remember which).

If I remember correctly, he won a stage, led the race until the final time trial and ended up on the podium.

He was also doing great at the Vuelta, but that damned crash put paid to that

Too bad, as it was just as couple of kms before the Anglirú where his light weight could really shine much more than he had in other stages.

Much, much love for Euskatel. I ride an Orbea by the way so I'm a bit biased.(...along with a couple of vintage Cannondales).

Never rode one personally, but from what I hear they're quite a nice ride

 

[Francois the Postman]

So how do people expect 2010 will unfold for Euskaltel, now it too has a World Champion in its roster? Has the team more depth now than it showed in 2009? Or are we looking at a transition period, where the real focus is on an "experience year" for youngsters like U23 WC Romain Sicard, and we should be thinking 2011,2012 onwards for the next orange wave? Which might be sweet, as the Vuelta is likely to return to the Basque region in 2011, if current noises become reality. Which riders are likely to feature in the Classics, Tour, and the Vuelta?

It looks like we'll get a chance to see all the newbies in action right away, in a couple of weeks time, Down Under, with "veteran" Velasco. Any thoughts on the roles of the 7 that Euskaltel is fielding there?

 

[Angliru]

So how do people expect 2010 will unfold for Euskaltel, now it too has a World Champion in its roster? Has the team more depth now than it showed in 2009? Or are we looking at a transition period, where the real focus is on an "experience year" for youngsters like U23 WC Romain Sicard, and we should be thinking 2011,2012 onwards for the next orange wave? Which might be sweet, as the Vuelta is likely to return to the Basque region in 2011, if current noises become reality. Which riders are likely to feature in the Classics, Tour, and the Vuelta?

It looks like we'll get a chance to see all the newbies in action right away, in a couple of weeks time, Down Under, with "veteran" Velasco. Any thoughts on the roles of the 7 that Euskaltel is fielding there?

I think Sanchez will finally get that classics win that has eluded him. Each year his results in the grand tours and the Ardennes seems to get better and better. I also think he's on his way to a Tour stage win and another Vuelta podium. He's improved his time trialing to the point where he can gain time on some of the contenders and limit his losses to a certain degree versus others.
As for the team, with the exception of Igor Anton, I think they'll be grooming their young talent for the future.

After Issiosso's (sorry about the spelling) schooling me on Euskatel Euskadi, I'll have to do a bit more research on the current roster before responding to your last paragraph.

Thanks for the tips Ississo.

 

[issoisso]

So how do people expect 2010 will unfold for Euskaltel, now it too has a World Champion in its roster? Has the team more depth now than it showed in 2009? Or are we looking at a transition period, where the real focus is on an "experience year" for youngsters like U23 WC Romain Sicard, and we should be thinking 2011,2012 onwards for the next orange wave? Which might be sweet, as the Vuelta is likely to return to the Basque region in 2011, if current noises become reality. Which riders are likely to feature in the Classics, Tour, and the Vuelta?

It looks like we'll get a chance to see all the newbies in action right away, in a couple of weeks time, Down Under, with "veteran" Velasco. Any thoughts on the roles of the 7 that Euskaltel is fielding there?

Given the lack of team leaders, I'd hazard a guess at free roles for most riders.

Expect Sicard to attack constantly, as is his nature

I'd bet on Castroviejo doing a bit of the same, as well.

 

[yetanothergreenworld]

Either way, the french teams have made a point of not touching riders they don't trust, so they would never make him [Sicard] an offer, no matter how good their youth results are. It's the same reason Lhottelerie and others had to look abroad despite brilliant youth results.


Why don't they trust Sicard? Is there a story here or are you just making an informed assumption?

 

[issoisso]

Either way, the french teams have made a point of not touching riders they don't trust, so they would never make him [Sicard] an offer, no matter how good their youth results are. It's the same reason Lhottelerie and others had to look abroad despite brilliant youth results.


Why don't they trust Sicard? Is there a story here or are you just making an informed assumption?

The french have had their own blood passport for national (non-UCI calendar) and youth races for about ten years. Based on this, french teams don't sign some riders (few) when they believe they are suspicious.

These riders are easy to spot, as they have tremendous results yet aren't even looked at by the top french teams (AG2R and Agritubel are exceptions who don't have a problem with funny blood values....which should come as no surprise when you look at the pro riders they sign and employ). The opposite would be a guy like Le Mével who climbs like an angel in youth categories, then can't compete in the pros, only to slowly improve his results late in his career as the sport slowly cleans itself up. (Or as Amaël Moinard put it recently: "It's awesome. Before the blood passport we struggled to stay in the pack. Now we actually get to attack. Even in spanish races!")

In Sicard's case I'm guessing he's one of these cases, not only because no french team has seemingly tried to sign him, but also because Cyrille Guimard was asked last year after the Ronde de l'Isard if he thought Sicard could be pried away from Orbea by a french team, to which he replied something along the lines of "I don't know if he'd be interested, but they won't give him that opportunity".

When pressed for clarification, he noted Sicard's prologue performance and quipped that "climbers aren't supposed to be able to do that"

Anyway, it's probably best I don't go on about this in this sub-forum

I'm pretty sure they don't trust him, and only time will tell if they were right or if they missed a talent.

 

[craig1985]

IIRC isso, Eric Boyer expressed his disappiontment that he missed out on the signing of Sicard.

 

[issoisso]

IIRC isso, Eric Boyer expressed his disappiontment that he missed out on the signing of Sicard.

That's interesting. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[auscyclefan94]

You said they never cared about anything but spanish races. I countered with three important foreign races in which they've recently had great results.

You responded that I was dreaming because they didn't have any such wins this year. So you just inserted a convenient time period "this year" that no one had mentioned or limited the discussion to, just because it suited you. You also limited it to "wins", which wasn't the scope of the discussion. Again, because it suited you. (Although if it were wins, the examples I mentioned would still be apt)

That's pretty much the same as accusing me of making crap up, no?



Discounting proven dopers, they still had wins in all those races

Tour de Suisse
2009 - Nothing
2008 - 3rd Overall with Anton
2007 -Nothing
2006 - Nothing
2005 - Won the race with Aitor Gonzalez
2004 - Nothing

Tirrenno Adriatico
2009 -Won mountains classfication
2008 - Nothing
2007 - Won a stage
2006 -Nothing
2005 - Nothing

You highlighted those races as being races outiside spain which they have done well in. 7 out of 11 of those races they did nothing. And your telling me that's were they have had good results out of spain. You have proved my point.
I may of mentioned "this year" but have now looked at the past 5and 6 editions of these races.