Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[Red Rick]

"Sepp Kuss and Steven Kruijswijk will be afforded a free role"

I disagree with that decision! Crushweak okay if he can be a factor and give them another card to play. But Kuss at best can win a stage and IMO they should wait until Primoz has a healthy lead before turning him lose. Or let Primoz tell him he's good and he can go for himself on the day.

To me it sounds like they'll be used a little more tactically and/or occasionally the may go for a stage win. Roglic will clearly be plan A and plan B, but I can see it that if Carapaz attacks Kuss will just bridge to his wheel instead of bringing the entire group back.

Big gaps today already though. What stood out to me the most is how happy and relaxed Roglic looked even before the ITT.

 

[Carols]

To me it sounds like they'll be used a little more tactically and/or occasionally the may go for a stage win. Roglic will clearly be plan A and plan B, but I can see it that if Carapaz attacks Kuss will just bridge to his wheel instead of bringing the entire group back.

That's using them tactically not giving them a 'free role' which is the quote in the article that I disagree with . Wout makes sense for a free role, those 2 don't.

 

[bNator]

That’s why I thought this year’s TDF results were bad for TJV long term. What they appear to have learnt from their messup is that their approach in TDF was the correct one when in fact, they just got lucky and had Wout. Even after it was clear Vingegaard had a chance for the podium, they still did not allocate their resources to supporting him. Kuss was free and Kruijswijk did not turn a pedal once for Jonas. They will carry on with their shenanigans (credit to Mr. Horner) but they may not be as lucky next time and they will never ever win TDF this way…

I don't like to quote myslef, but today was a confirmation that TJV learnt nothing from TDF at all. I admit I only tuned in for the last 10km and they may have ridden a perfect stage up to that point, but at 10km to go, I was horrified to see they are once again in the middle of the peloton just before things were about to get really nervous... And of course, the crash did happen and Primoz was what, 0.5m away of getting taken down once again for the second time in a row at the beginning of a grand tour.

Please, someone explain to me - am I missing something here? Is it such a hard tempo at the end of the stage that TJV doesn't have manpower to put their leader up front to guarantee him better chances to get to the finish line safely? Is Primoz so worn down at the end of these stages that he can't keep up with his team? What's going on here?

I think it's their intentional approach somehow. Because in TDF 2020, they knew how to put their team up front. And since then, they just seem reluctant to make a real effort - to really go for it... They just ride as if they were some stage hunting team and if their leaders happen to make it safely to the end, so be it. If not - whatever...

I don't think any other serious GC team employs this kind of tactics and I think no matter how lucky they get, their GC results could be much better if they just raced "normally".

 

[Rackham]

I don't like to quote myslef, but today was a confirmation that TJV learnt nothing from TDF at all. I admit I only tuned in for the last 10km and they may have ridden a perfect stage up to that point, but at 10km to go, I was horrified to see they are once again in the middle of the peloton just before things were about to get really nervous... And of course, the crash did happen and Primoz was what, 0.5m away of getting taken down once again for the second time in a row at the beginning of a grand tour.

Please, someone explain to me - am I missing something here? Is it such a hard tempo at the end of the stage that TJV doesn't have manpower to put their leader up front to guarantee him better chances to get to the finish line safely? Is Primoz so worn down at the end of these stages that he can't keep up with his team? What's going on here?

I think it's their intentional approach somehow. Because in TDF 2020, they knew how to put their team up front. And since then, they just seem reluctant to make a real effort - to really go for it... They just ride as if they were some stage hunting team and if their leaders happen to make it safely to the end, so be it. If not - whatever...

I don't think any other serious GC team employs this kind of tactics and I think no matter how lucky they get, their GC results could be much better if they just raced "normally".

I think it was indeed deliberate to sit back a little at the end. I saw Robert Gesink's number 3 jersey right at the back of the peloton, just "casually" chilling back there without much concern at the end (before the crash). And when that crash happened, Roglic was sitting with a gap between himself & the bunch ahead.

Is it the wrong tactic? Well, it came close to disaster today (it could have been worse, obviously), but IMO those "disasters" we're seeing in increasing number are partially a result of too many teams putting their GC leader at the front, which combined with the sprint teams fighting for the stage = a square peloton in a round road, or more precisely a bottleneck is created because there are too many teams trying to get to the front & not enough road for everyone. So kaboom, we get crashes.

Tomorrow's summit finish should create enough GC gaps to calm certain teams in the following flat stages (which is what happened in the Tour, i.e. hence why crashes usually occur in the first week when everyone is fighting for position until the GC situation creates a real hierarchy).

 

[SHAD0W93]

It’s also more tense in the first few sprint stages from not only sprinters wanting to win early instead of late but there is not a lot of time difference between GC riders so that leaves a lot of hopefuls that don’t actually have it. The front has been experiencing a lot of crashes as well. Roglic just has to avoid fans for 3 weeks.

 

[southwards]

Roglic just has to avoid fans for 3 weeks.

And luckily Sonny Colbrelli is not on this race.

 

[Carols]

And luckily Sonny Colbrelli is not on this race.

I hope Colbrelli never wins a race again the jerk.

 

[Bonimenier]

I hope Colbrelli never wins a race again the jerk.

Sorry to shatter your dreams, but he will.

 

[Carols]

Sorry to shatter your dreams, but he will.

LOL of course he will. But that won't stop me from hoping he has a hard time of it .

 

[Cassirer]

I know colbrelli caused the crash, but I dont recall it being more than an accident? Is there reason for serious anti-colbrelli-vibes because of this? Open question, not implying the poster is being unreasonable

 

[tobydawq]

I know colbrelli caused the crash, but I dont recall it being more than an accident? Is there reason for serious anti-colbrelli-vibes because of this? Open question, not implying the poster is being unreasonable

Not really, I don't think. But it was hard to see what happened.

 

[Netserk]

Yeah, we unfortunately didn't have any helicopter images of it, so we don't really know what happened.

 

[southwards]

I think Rogla himself said it was a race incident, Colbrelli's reaction though makes it look more like a driver in traffic.

 

[tobydawq]

I think Rogla himself said it was a race incident, Colbrelli's reaction though makes it look more like a driver in traffic.

Roglic never assumes the worst of anybody, it seems like.

 

[Eeslliw]

I think Rogla himself said it was a race incident, Colbrelli's reaction though makes it look more like a driver in traffic.

As I recall immediately after the stage he said he was body-checked by Colbrelli. But they changed their response after and said it was race incident. Roglic normally doesn't whine so I don't know why he said that.

 

[CyclistAbi]

After stage 3 we can assume both climbing and TT are under control. As a bonus organiser didn't succeed this time. With the bowling addition on stage 2. As why on earth would you separate bulls from the goats before sending them down the alley. Who really needs goats on a GT.

P.S. If your team doesn't have Roglič in it i guess now you do start loosing sleep over it.

 

[Red Rick]

Time to lose sleep over his team though.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Not sure just yet. I more or less knew from the beginning JV didn't send a team capable of controlling the race for the whole 3 weeks. Burning matches needlessly is hence a no go on this race for JV. On some stages before but more or less week 3 is where JV as a team will need to show their strength. But i agree that it is always risky to leave the leader isolated in a rather large group of favourites. They must be rather sure Roglič is in great shape.

 

[Carols]

As I recall immediately after the stage he said he was body-checked by Colbrelli. But they changed their response after and said it was race incident. Roglic normally doesn't whine so I don't know why he said that.

The exact quote was 'body slammed'

 

[JosefK]

The exact quote was 'body slammed'

I'm still trying to find drone footage from another angle (from above and slightly to one side) that shows Colbrelli actually leaping off his own bike onto the back of Roglic's bike, then pulling Primoz up, lifting him overhead and body-slamming him pro-wrestling-style onto the pavement. I'm sure I've seen it somewhere.

But failed attempts at humor aside, when I've watched replays of the stage 3 crash for Roglic, it does seem like Colbrelli was riding aggressively, probably not intentionally body-checking Primoz but still initiating contact nonetheless. I would chalk it up to aggressive riding and either a split-second miscalculation or moment of inattentiveness on Colbrelli's part (not expecting Roglic to appear there right on the margin of the road). On the other hand, some viewers might argue that Primoz shouldn't have been where he was--and he clearly would have been better off being somewhere else.

 

[Jumbot]

Time to lose sleep over his team though.

Yup, that was ... I don't think it was intentional as surely they would've preferred to have one more guy high on GC or at least to stick with Rogla for longer just in case, and they all went boom at about same moment.
But it's a story of the season for those guys. Oomen's main goal this year is Vuelta, Kuss was great in TDF third week and in the prologue, you would expect one of them to be there longer but nope. It might change later in the race but it's a bit worrying atm.
And SK... guy is in 561st place in UCI ranking according to PCS with less than 100 UCI points so far this season which is way lower than Big Tom who was walking his dog for 5 months and Pascal Eenkhorn who barely broke the top 100 in RVV. And he only did domestique work in PN, and he's supposed to be one of the big team leaders probably on a high wage, and he just got a 2year extension, a year for each of his pro victories. I have sympathy because he had Covid, but he's lucky cycling ain't football and that he's a Dutch on a Dutch team.
I just don't want to see another Giro 2019 scenario of Rogla's isolation...

 

[bNator]

Yup, that was ... I don't think it was intentional as surely they would've preferred to have one more guy high on GC or at least to stick with Rogla for longer just in case, and they all went boom at about same moment.
But it's a story of the season for those guys. Oomen's main goal this year is Vuelta, Kuss was great in TDF third week and in the prologue, you would expect one of them to be there longer but nope. It might change later in the race but it's a bit worrying atm.
And SK... guy is in 561st place in UCI ranking according to PCS with less than 100 UCI points so far this season which is way lower than Big Tom who was walking his dog for 5 months and Pascal Eenkhorn who barely broke the top 100 in RVV. And he only did domestique work in PN, and he's supposed to be one of the big team leaders probably on a high wage, and he just got a 2year extension, a year for each of his pro victories. I have sympathy because he had Covid, but he's lucky cycling ain't football and that he's a Dutch on a Dutch team.
I just don't want to see another Giro 2019 scenario of Rogla's isolation...

Giro 2019 was the first association I got when the climb started yesterday as well. I'm glad you mentioned Kruijswijk. Yesterday, he finished 2 minutes behind the group of favourites. This means he was not blown completely and he could be of some use to his team at least half way up the climb. And by being of some use, I mean being there next to Roglic as long as possible. Ok, so TJV may have decided to spare him for future use. But in this case, you would expect him to drop substantially... Instead, he was in damage limitation mode still trying to get up the climb as fast as possible. I think by now it should be pretty clear to everyone Kurijswijk can't play the dark horse role this year and he should focus completely on domestique duties. I'm not sure he's got a mindset to do that and I fully expect him to continue to be a wasted spot for his team.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Only Kuss disappointed, but everyone and their mother knows he's prone to off-days. One look at J-V's Vuelta squad and you knew they weren't about to do much in the mountains. It was just Roglic and Kuss, basically.

Remember that SK was free to target his own GC, too. The Dutch bias is beyond insane. This wouldn't fly on any other big team, surely? Look at SK's lack of results since his fluke TDF podium.

He was quoted as saying that he was hoping to do a good race for himself. O yeah, and maybe for the team, too. You can't make this stuff up.

 

[Red Rick]

Giro 2019 was the first association I got when the climb started yesterday as well. I'm glad you mentioned Kruijswijk. Yesterday, he finished 2 minutes behind the group of favourites. This means he was not blown completely and he could be of some use to his team at least half way up the climb. And by being of some use, I mean being there next to Roglic as long as possible. Ok, so TJV may have decided to spare him for future use. But in this case, you would expect him to drop substantially... Instead, he was in damage limitation mode still trying to get up the climb as fast as possible. I think by now it should be pretty clear to everyone Kurijswijk can't play the dark horse role this year and he should focus completely on domestique duties. I'm not sure he's got a mindset to do that and I fully expect him to continue to be a wasted spot for his team.

Kruijswijk didn't go on altitude before the Vuelta and he straight up wasn't expecting to be a 2ndary GC rider. He's there to work for Roglic and get a decent race under his belt this year. Tbh he should be there on bigger stages if the peloton is down to 25 dudes. He was in the Tour initially. Kuss is Kuss and laternates being a worse climber than Van Aert with being a top 10 climber in the world.

 

[bNator]

Kruijswijk didn't go on altitude before the Vuelta and he straight up wasn't expecting to be a 2ndary GC rider. He's there to work for Roglic and get a decent race under his belt this year. Tbh he should be there on bigger stages if the peloton is down to 25 dudes. He was in the Tour initially. Kuss is Kuss and laternates being a worse climber than Van Aert with being a top 10 climber in the world.

Yes, I'm not worried about Kuss. Comparing last year's TDF Peryresourde stage with Col de la Loze for instance, I'm pretty sure he'll be there in Roglič's darkest hour...

What I have difficulty understanding is TJV leaving so much to chance. Look at Ineos for instance, taking Bernal to the fornt of the pack for the narrow streets at the footsteps of that final climb. Thay could just as well save Van Baarle's legs for later. But if Bernal crashed, Van Baarle's fresh legs won't do much in terms of GC. And we're talking about Ineos here, who has Yates and Carapaz in their ranks and losing Bernal would not constitute a complete disaster for them.

In the meantime, TJV is "cleverly" saving everyone's legs, tempting the fate to show them middle finger once again... Anyway, sorry for the rant everyone - I'm just very nervous anytime Engels is leading TJV I guess...