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I've been seriously thinking about this lately. My opinion was that Roglic is just not great in these long hard one day races, but the same is happening to WvA. They have the same coach, they both fly straight from an altitude camp etc... Maybe Jumbo just lacks in preparing their riders for these kind of races, they are a GC team first and foremost and they always prepare well for TDF, but this year in the 5/6 hardest one day races (not counting MSR) it was disappointment after disappointment while always having one of the biggest favorites. I mean the best performances we've seen from WvA and Roglic in these kind of races were in a crazy 2020 season where everything revolved around your TDF form, there was no time to target your peaks as big races were constantly on the menu., or Jumbo just *** up the preperation for every monument they target.
He just needs to look at the way Pogacar rides his B level races. Just because you CAN win them doesn't mean you have to, if your goal is a monument. But I agree that MT was impressive; so long as we acknowledge the cost...that interest came due in Lombardia.Roglič participated in two semi classics before Lombardia and went all in. Why? Because both were tailor made for him. Similar thing happened before LBL. Bottom line if he wants to be more fresh at the end of such monuments as Lombardia and LBL. Then he needs to sacrifice his chances on "preparation races". Now in the past i would say that would be a rather stupid thing to do. Going forward now he could afford that on lets say one monument of the season. Considering he already won most of the semi classics held around the monument. Still i would say that for now best to take some tailor made one day races too. Not to always go all in on the races where the likelihood of the success is less. A win is still a win. And for example Milano–Torino 2021 was a beautiful win.
I think monuments are overrated. I only half joke as well, specifically pertaining to Roglic. He's a stage racer & GT specialist with an uphill kick which on his good days demolishes everyone.He just needs to look at the way Pogacar rides his B level races. Just because you CAN win them doesn't mean you have to, if your goal is a monument. But I agree that MT was impressive; so long as we acknowledge the cost...that interest came due in Lombardia.
Not really, but that is cos he has become irrelevant years ago, and thats not only in cobbled classics.Do you consider Degenkolb a northern classics star? I don't.
It's difficult to pull back on available races to win; especially for Primoz. Tadej took a measured approach and took Lombardia. That was easier for him with all of the other accomplishments for the season.Roglič participated in two semi classics before Lombardia and went all in. Why? Because both were tailor made for him. Similar thing happened before LBL. Bottom line if he wants to be more fresh at the end of such monuments as Lombardia and LBL. Then he needs to sacrifice his chances on "preparation races". Now in the past i would say that would be a rather stupid thing to do. Going forward now he could afford that on lets say one monument of the season. Considering he already won most of the semi classics held around the monument. Still i would say that for now best to take some tailor made one day races too. Not to always go all in on the races where the likelihood of the success is less. A win is still a win. And for example Milano–Torino 2021 was a beautiful win.
If guys would cooperate in the back, Pogačar wouldn't win Lombardia. I still don't understand the mindset of everybody in that group. You refuse to work together to get a chance of winning for riding out of the wind and fight for 3rd spot?One of the reasons Lombardia is widely regarded as the lesser Monument is exactly the question of the form the riders arrive in. Pogacar and (lol) Masnada seem to be the only two riders who correctly targeted Lombardia, every other rider in the field arrived after some hard two months of racing, or, as in the case of Valverde, after injury.
Pogacar tried the same move at the Olympics, everyone caught him, and he was beaten by the Locomotora del Carchi.
I dunno. Pogi beat Gaudu, Alaf, Woods and Valverde at Liège, I have no reason to think he wouldn't beat them again. He is too strong in a flat sprint after 250km of hilly parcours, he even almost beat van Aert at the Olympics.If guys would cooperate in the back, Pogačar wouldn't win Lombardia. I still don't understand the mindset of everybody in that group. You refuse to work together to get a chance of winning for riding out of the wind and fight for 3rd spot?
Nibali won MSR based on cunning and randomness and mostly luck.Not really, but that is cos he has become irrelevant years ago, and thats not only in cobbled classics.
But I get your point, if you only win a GT and a cobbled monument and not much else of significance it would for sure would need to be done in some sort of style, random or lucky victories wont do to reach legendary status. Still I think for some the magnitude and unlickelyness of that combination would warrant for borderline legendstatus.
I got halfway through this post and was already preparing to leave an angry response. Good job I read the rest of it.Nibali won MSR based on cunning and randomness and mostly luck.
He has been far from the strongest rider from most of his career. Most of his successes in GTs came from avoiding the stronger riders. In 2014 at the tour he was very strong but had the luck of his life, with Froome and Contador dropping. Both riders were destroying Nibali all year long, in any stage race they did, for years but specially that season.
He is an overachiever. The weakest rider with the 3 GTs under his belt. He would never win LBL, PR, RVV or MSR by being even close to the strongest riders. He would never win a GT against the strongest riders he competed against if they were in good health.
And to me it all ads up to his charm and how spectacular he was and how legendary he is to me. It's why I will always remember him and root for him. He is why guys like Gerrans, Leipheimer and so on should fell ashamed.
Nibali dares to be great. What a character. What about those 3rd weeks in GTs when he is obviously behind in the GC but he smells blood and there's a big descent coming up?
Pogacar seems from the same breed, but with the physicality aspect of it too. He's game. But being game is all Nibali has and that's why I will always root for him.
I maintain that Nibs has more near misses than lucky wins even if he's never been the dominant GT racer.I got halfway through this post and was already preparing to leave an angry response. Good job I read the rest of it.
But I do think you underrated his physical abilities slightly.
He had the physical ability to win 2017 Giro, 2018 Worlds + Lombardia (and podium tour), 2019 giro, 2017 Emilia, probably 2013 Vuelta, 2016 Rio.I maintain that Nibs has more near misses than lucky wins even if he's never been the dominant GT racer.
I didn't finish reading his diatribe about how Nibali wins on luck and is never the strongest. No rider wins 4 GTs including all 3 and 3 Monuments (2 different ones) on Luck. The ONLY others to do it are Gimondi, Merkx and Hinault. Guess all 4 were Lucky PPPPFFFFTTT.I got halfway through this post and was already preparing to leave an angry response. Good job I read the rest of it.
But I do think you underrated his physical abilities slightly.
Good for you.I maintain that Nibs has more near misses than lucky wins even if he's never been the dominant GT racer.
Why would it follow that because Nibali was lucky to win three of his four GTs that Gimondi, Merckx and Hinault all were too?I didn't finish reading his diatribe about how Nibali wins on luck and is never the strongest. No rider wins 4 GTs including all 3 and 3 Monuments (2 different ones) on Luck. The ONLY others to do it are Gimondi, Merkx and Hinault. Guess all 4 were Lucky PPPPFFFFTTT.
Nibali popping up in the Roglic thread is basically the new Valverde vs Nibali warsI didn't finish reading his diatribe about how Nibali wins on luck and is never the strongest. No rider wins 4 GTs including all 3 and 3 Monuments (2 different ones) on Luck. The ONLY others to do it are Gimondi, Merkx and Hinault. Guess all 4 were Lucky PPPPFFFFTTT.
Why is Nibali discussed on Primoz's thread anyway? There's a Nibali thread!
I won't dispute that.His 2 Lombardia he was the strongest.