Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[VayaVayaVaya]

I think all of what you guys are saying is true:

• Vingegaard (/TJV?) have prioritized Vingegaard at the expense of Kuss and Roglic this entire Vuelta, including today, when they waited on him in the TTT (as they should have), when he bridged to Roglic on stage 6, bringing Mas, and on Tourmalet
• This might be because they believe Vingegaard is the strongest and therefore the rational rider to support
• This belief might be accurate, based on two Vinge raids (though not based on the ITT)
• Vinegaard’s huge time gap today was due to bizarre riding
• Roglic attacked at a seemingly inopportune time and did not seem very strong
• It’s possible he sat up when he realized Kuss hadn’t come with him, but I think he just couldn’t make the difference
• The most likely scenario is that Vinge successfully attacks to win the stage and overall on Angliru
• Based on Roglic’s riding style, he will be unable to beat Vingegaard while riding with him unless Vinge has bad luck because the logical tactic is to send Vinge on early attack and for Roglic to counter rather than go with him, but Vinge is so strong that no one chases and this Roglic can’t counter
• MF Naichaca is an anti-Roglic ***

Wow, crazy

Was this your takeaway from my post or are you just trolling?

 

[Valv.Piti]

Until I see an exausted Rog at the finish I cannot agree that he was going full.

XD???????

Okay he attacked very hard and trying to gap everyone, but he wasnt going full? That would not only make him super strong, but also incredibly stupid.

 

[Divergence]

XD???????

Okay he attacked very hard and trying to gap everyone, but he wasnt going full?

OK, he was going full.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Tomorrow it's time for Primoz's all out attack. We'll see how Kuss and Vinge respond.

 

[DNP-Old]

Yes, we had that camera shot for about 3-4s, but It is obvious he stopped pulling hard even before they came to him. Also after the camera was gone Mas and Ayuso probably took over at the from and Kuss was able to get back as evidenced by the finish

That's funny, because Roglic only looks behind once prior to Ayuso and Mas crossing the gap, when Kuss was still with them. This screenshot right here is the exact moment where Mas and Ayuso connect with Roglic. Nine seconds later, yes I actually counted the seconds, Roglic is still pushing exactly the same way he did before, and he might have continued even longer*.

*: we can't say for certain as the director went to another screen.

 

[Divergence]

That's funny, because Roglic only looks behind once prior to Ayuso and Mas crossing the gap, when Kuss was still with them. This screenshot right here is the exact moment where Mas and Ayuso connect with Roglic. Nine seconds later, yes I actually counted the seconds, Roglic is still pushing exactly the same way he did before, and he might have continued even longer*.

*: we can't say for certain as the director went to another screen.

hh, ok 10s of pulling

 

[Rackham]

That's funny, because Roglic only looks behind once prior to Ayuso and Mas crossing the gap, when Kuss was still with them. This screenshot right here is the exact moment where Mas and Ayuso connect with Roglic. Nine seconds later Roglic is still pushing exactly the same way he did before.

What's Rog supposed to do? Accept that "Vingegaard winning the Vuelta" is best for the team? Look at the gap ffs, Rog was losing the Vuelta (& so was Kuss) right there.

But I'm not surprised by some of these takes when I see intellectual powerhouses like Benji Naesen on Twitter explaining that Vingegaard's attack was good for Kuss but Rog's wasn't!

Like Vingegaard taking red would have been so peachy for Kuss & Rog! I mean some of the comments I've seen this evening... are mind-boggling.

 

[Valv.Piti]

There's still enough plausible deniability in order for Roglic fans to believe he is the strongest. Maybe there will be after tomorrow, but hopefully (for everyone involved) that will be eradicated once and for all. It was the same for Contador from 2015 and until his career was over.

 

[Andy schleck]

I do not know what the f*** this race is all about. It is obvious that peloton pace is slow and Rogla is not allowed to go.

In the last km, like always, roglic was allowed to go and again he was caught up by Mas and ayuso. He couldn't even make differences in the last km.

 

[Peyroteo94]

There's still enough plausible deniability in order for Roglic fans to believe he is the strongest. Maybe there will be after tomorrow, but hopefully (for everyone involved) that will be eradicated once and for all. It was the same for Contador from 2015 and until his career was over.

Some folks thought Valverde would have won the 2017 Tour. You don't have a joke bigger than that

 

[Red Rick]

It's extremely simple.

If Roglic, Vingegaard, and Kuss all agreed on the plan and Vingegaard simply executed the plan there is nothing to complain about.

 

[DNP-Old]

What's Rog supposed to do? Accept that "Vingegaard winning the Vuelta" is best for the team? Look at the gap ffs, Rog was losing the Vuelta (& so was Kuss) right there.

That is a different discussion. With that post I am merely refuting the idea that Mas and Ayuso came back to Roglic because he stopped due to Kuss dropping.

He attacked and his attack was weak, simple as that.

 

[Divergence]

It's extremely simple.

If Roglic, Vingegaard, and Kuss all agreed on the plan and Vingegaard simply executed the plan there is nothing to complain about.

So Rog agreed to lose the Vuelta to Jonas whilst showing zero fight in the process. I can understand if he somehow agreed to lose it to Kuss, but not to Jonas. And if it is as you say than I lose a little bit of respect for Rog.

 

[JosefK]

It's extremely simple.

If Roglic, Vingegaard, and Kuss all agreed on the plan and Vingegaard simply executed the plan there is nothing to complain about.

Kuss seemed happy enough at the end of the stage. I saw Vingegaard on his radio a minute or so before his attack. I wonder whether he was getting confirmation from the DS to go for it.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Some folks thought Valverde would have won the 2017 Tour. You don't have a joke bigger than that

If you don't think that was an opportunity in 2017, which was a perfect storm which I don't wanna repeat again, then I dare say you know nothing about cycling.

 

[Divergence]

That is a different discussion. With that post I am merely refuting the idea that Mas and Ayuso came back to Roglic because he stopped due to Kuss dropping.

He attacked and his attack was weak, simple as that.

Vingo attacked on Tourmalet and they got back to him. Then he attacked again. I believe Rog was not allowed to do that (agreed not to do it) but in any case he was not maxed out at the finish as I expect him to be. I rest my case.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Roglic would have stayed away if no one followed him, this is simple to understand. No one was following Vingegaard when he attacked and that was the reason for his gap.

 

[Red Rick]

So Rog agreed to lose the Vuelta to Jonas whilst showing zero fight in the process. I can understand if he somehow agreed to lose it to Kuss, but not to Jonas. And if it is as you say than I lose a little bit of respect for Rog.

You agree to a strategy for the stage, then you get trapped because UAE is a meme team. You can be unhappy about the result, but not about the fact that Vingegaard attacked in the first place.

 

[DNP-Old]

Roglic would have stayed away if no one followed him, this is simple to understand. No one was following Vingegaard when he attacked and that was the reason for his gap.

Why is that, do you think?

 

[hfer07]

So JVT's DS & Management already decided who's winning La Vuelta, despite the fact that Roglic was the outright Leader prior to the race..... before Vinge opted for the double...
At least Roglic won Il Giro ....

 

[Peyroteo94]

Why is that, do you think?

Yes. Even FisherBlack stayed away. If Roglic would gain so much time as Vingegaard gained is another question. But Vingegaard without the passive peloton would never win more than 20 seconds today, I'm sure of that. Don't tell me they (Ayuso, Mas, Roglic, Kuss) couldn't be 20 seconds faster than Fisher Black?

 

[hfer07]

In the last km, like always, roglic was allowed to go and again he was caught up by Mas and ayuso. He couldn't even make differences in the last km.

Roglic was with Kuss when Mas & Ayuso bridged to him. Roglic in the end "accompanied his Leader" instead of "attack him"

 

[DNP-Old]

Yes. Even FisherBlack stayed away. If Roglic would gain so much time as Vingegaard gained is another question. But Vingegaard without his passive peloton would never win more than 20 seconds today, I'm sure of that. Don't tell me they (Ayuso, Mas, Roglic, Kuss) couldn't be 20 seconds faster than Fisher Black?

Why is it that riders do follow Roglic but not Vingegaard, is what I meant.

 

[Scarponi]

Great chance at a Giro/Veulta double going up on flames

 

[Red Rick]

Why is it that riders do follow Roglic but not Vingegaard, is what I meant.

Vingegaard attacked super early on this climb. People might try to follow that if he was the only leader but you really don't wanna respond to that and risk blowing up when you have domestiques who can pace for you on the easier section can try to respond, fail and blow up