Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[hayneplane]

Well, maybe if everyone in top 10 has done the GT beforehand, it means that you don't need specific preparation?
I honestly don't know what you base your argument on.

Even in Classica San Sebastian there was a statistic (okay, before Remco 's time) that usually the riders that came out of the Tour are generally winning the race.

Not usually the ones that had flown high in GC for 3 weeks in the tour. For stage hunters like Mollema the Tour gave a great depth of testing to train into great form to do top 10 in CSS year after year after year but for a GC too favourite spending physical and mental energies every single day still arriving to a race a week later in great shape has proven a lot harder.

This years edition was dominated by guys from the Giro not the Tour.

 

[Red Rick]

From the way he was talking I assumed he would be pretty content with a 2ndary role at the Tour just to try because it's the Tour, and then lead the Vuelta.

I guess Red Bull decided they didn't want 3 leaders whatsoever, which is somehwat understandable. The real big thing for me is not racing the Giro either. And I would find it hard to believe RB would stop their 2nd biggest rider from going Giro/Vuelta when it doesn't interfere with Evenepoel.

My best guess is Roglic had a really terrible time during and after the Giro this year, and because everyone seems to be assuming Vingegaard will race it he doesn't wanna burn himself out.

Especially with Roglic talking about continuing for longer I could actually see it a little bit as pivoting to a lighter schedule to prolong his career a little more.

 

[YavorD]

No, it means that everyone was on equal footing. We're talking about GT vs race specific preparation

As I said, if we have so many examples in the opposite (not just Evenepoel as an outlier), I think race specific preparation is overrated.
Unless we talk about very, very specific routes.

 

[AmRacer]

Roglic knows he cannot win the Tour and that he's coming to age. He was happy getting to Paris and having fun last Tour. 2026 may be his last and he cannot ride like he used to, so Vuelta it is. Hope he will add TdS later on.

 

[vappaxbipmv]

As I said, if we have so many examples in the opposite (not just Evenepoel as an outlier), I think race specific preparation is overrated.
Unless we talk about very, very specific routes.

How many riders who did a GT for GC has beaten all riders that didn't ride that specific GT and instead decided to specifically prepare for that race?

 

[YavorD]

How many riders who did a GT for GC has beaten all riders that didn't ride that specific GT and instead decided to specifically prepare for that race?

The real question is how many routes actually allowed for that to happen?
Because on most of the routes GC riders didn't or wouldn't have a real chance.

On most of the routes allowing for that, you had a rider(s) just completed a GT for GC in close contention for the win or actually winning the whole thing.
And if most of top 10 competed in the same GT, then there's no real negative in doing a GT compared to a race specific preparation

 

[YavorD]

@vappaxbipmv
Are you going to claim that O'Connor
and Mas were beating Pogacar last year had they done a race specific training?
Because BOC beat every human being and Mas was in the group racing for bronze IIRC. And they both competed in the Vuelta for GC, BOC beating everyone except for a certain Vuelta merchant.

 

[vappaxbipmv]

@vappaxbipmv
Are you going to claim that O'Connor
and Mas were beating Pogacar last year had they done a race specific training?
Because BOC beat every human being and Mas was in the group racing for bronze IIRC. And they both competed in the Vuelta for GC, BOC beating everyone except for a certain Vuelta merchant.

I never said that and don't claim that is the case

 

[Valv.Piti]

Smart move and the program I argued for: heavy on one week stage races and then the Vuelta, the kind of races he historically have excelled at compared to Giro/Tour. Great work from Red Bull. I assume that Hindley + Pelizzari then goes to Italy?

 

[YavorD]

I never said that and don't claim that is the case

I know, but let's further elaborate on WC and Olympics routes to see the actual winners and what they did to prepare:

2008: Sami Sanchez - Did the Tour, won the OG. WC, can't remember the race, but I don't think anyone was beating Balan/Cunego regardless of the Vuelta
2009: Evans Competed Vuelta for GC
2010: No GC rider was beating Hushovd with the headwind, don't think doing or not doing the Vuelta would have matteed.
2011: Even more so.
2012, Noone was beating Gilbert on his favourite hill, regardless of the Vuelta and he himself won 2 stages there.
2013: Nibali, Purito and Valverde competed in the Vuelta for GC, were beaten by Rui Costa. Would they best him had they prepared especially for this race? I don't think so, totally racing situation.
2014: Didn't watch and can't remember the route, but judging by top 10, not suitable for GC riders, hence with or without Vuelta not much of a difference.
2015-2016-2017 unfavorable routes for GC riders. Again, Vuelta or no Vuelta = no impact.
Olymipcs 2016, admittedly no GC riders competed on a favourable course, bar Nibali, who wasn't doing the Tour for GC, but again non of the top Tour GC riders at the time was notable one day racer.
2018: Valverde did the Vuelta for GC and won against riders specifically targeting the race.
Admittedly his Vuelta wasn't great.
2019: Not a route for GC riders and with the conditions, the Vuelta had no impact.
2020: Interesting route, GC riders had a chance, Pogacar was active and attacked, Roglic was in the group contending for Silver. I don't think he would've achieved more had he not rode the Tour
2021: Olympics, top 10 we only Tour riders with Pogacar and Carapaz competing for GC, Van Aert winning all kinds of stages.
2021 WC - not a favourable route for GC riders, the Vuelta didn't have impact.
2022: Evenepoel, we know, won both
2023: Heavy Tour for Pogacar, yet won a medal on a route not great for him.
2024: OG, Evenepoel destroyed both races after competing for GC
2024: Noone was beating Pogacar (okay, I still think he was beatable, but that's a different discussion), O'Connor was second in the Vuelta and won Silver, Mas.. competitive on both.
2025, Admittedly the Vuelta riders didn't perform well, but again most of the top GC riders in the Vuelta weren't notable 1 day riders, so I don't think they would perform better regardless.




As you can see, the times that competing a GT for GC before the WC/OG has a negative impact compared to a specific preparation are mostly exceptions,

 

[Gargamel35]

He hates weather and Giro chaos. He likes Tour for what it is (biggest race of the year).
He loves Vuelta for it's roads and weather.

He can ride only one GT per year to be competitive (maybe) so Vuelta it is. The rest is kind of boring, not much to ride for and plenty of competition. Monuments are taken by freaks. 1 week races... he won them all except one not very important one.

If he finds his shape back, he can add himself to any race I would think, except Tour.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

He hates weather

Unfortunately there is weather every day. There must be some weather that he likes?

 

[AmRacer]

Unfortunately there is weather every day. There must be some weather that he likes?

Vuelta

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

This is sensible: "If you ask me straight, if for results, again, we are just speaking something, but you know, if I'm second in the GC of the Tour or winning the Vuelta, what will I choose? I [would] win the Vuelta, it's simple."

 

[Tim Cahill]

It’s the kind of schedule I expect Lotto will give little Widar to test him out in his first season only it’s Primoz Roglic 5x GT winner.

 

[AmRacer]

This is sensible: "If you ask me straight, if for results, again, we are just speaking something, but you know, if I'm second in the GC of the Tour or winning the Vuelta, what will I choose? I [would] win the Vuelta, it's simple."

What if you can have it both?

 

[vappaxbipmv]

I know, but let's further elaborate on WC and Olympics routes to see the actual winners and what they did to prepare:

2008: Sami Sanchez - Did the Tour, won the OG. WC, can't remember the race, but I don't think anyone was beating Balan/Cunego regardless of the Vuelta
2009: Evans Competed Vuelta for GC
2010: No GC rider was beating Hushovd with the headwind, don't think doing or not doing the Vuelta would have matteed.
2011: Even more so.
2012, Noone was beating Gilbert on his favourite hill, regardless of the Vuelta and he himself won 2 stages there.
2013: Nibali, Purito and Valverde competed in the Vuelta for GC, were beaten by Rui Costa. Would they best him had they prepared especially for this race? I don't think so, totally racing situation.
2014: Didn't watch and can't remember the route, but judging by top 10, not suitable for GC riders, hence with or without Vuelta not much of a difference.
2015-2016-2017 unfavorable routes for GC riders. Again, Vuelta or no Vuelta = no impact.
Olymipcs 2016, admittedly no GC riders competed on a favourable course, bar Nibali, who wasn't doing the Tour for GC, but again non of the top Tour GC riders at the time was notable one day racer.
2018: Valverde did the Vuelta for GC and won against riders specifically targeting the race.
Admittedly his Vuelta wasn't great.
2019: Not a route for GC riders and with the conditions, the Vuelta had no impact.
2020: Interesting route, GC riders had a chance, Pogacar was active and attacked, Roglic was in the group contending for Silver. I don't think he would've achieved more had he not rode the Tour
2021: Olympics, top 10 we only Tour riders with Pogacar and Carapaz competing for GC, Van Aert winning all kinds of stages.
2021 WC - not a favourable route for GC riders, the Vuelta didn't have impact.
2022: Evenepoel, we know, won both
2023: Heavy Tour for Pogacar, yet won a medal on a route not great for him.
2024: OG, Evenepoel destroyed both races after competing for GC
2024: Noone was beating Pogacar (okay, I still think he was beatable, but that's a different discussion), O'Connor was second in the Vuelta and won Silver, Mas.. competitive on both.
2025, Admittedly the Vuelta riders didn't perform well, but again most of the top GC riders in the Vuelta weren't notable 1 day riders, so I don't think they would perform better regardless.




As you can see, the times that competing a GT for GC before the WC/OG has a negative impact compared to a specific preparation are mostly exceptions,

Fair enough, good list. Although, if I had to guess there's no way my guess would be that riding a GT for 3 weeks, preparing for 30+ minute and TT (that's where the time gaps usually are) is a better preparation for a 270km race with 3 minute climbs than specific preparation for 270km race with 3 minute climbs

 

[Gargamel35]

What if you can have it both?

Roglič can't have both any more.

 

[AmRacer]

Roglič can't have both any more.

No, not anymore.

 

[Red Rick]

This is sensible: "If you ask me straight, if for results, again, we are just speaking something, but you know, if I'm second in the GC of the Tour or winning the Vuelta, what will I choose? I [would] win the Vuelta, it's simple."

Is that an actual quote?

 

[Krzysztof_O]

The fact is everything after Catalunya last March was downhill form wise (except his ITT on stage 2 of the Giro which was good and normal by his standards). Without rediscovering his usual form, it's all a moot point.

Pyereguades and MtVentoux stages at the Tour were quite good, he was the 3rd strongest there (as he's been in stage-racing in recent years).

 

[Cycling111]

Pyereguades and MtVentoux stages at the Tour were quite good, he was the 3rd strongest there (as he's been in stage-racing in recent years).

One mountain stages.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

One mountain stages.

I get it. Roglic wasn't good in terms of endurance (look, what kind of preparation he had: Giro crashes and antibiotics) but he still has a big engine.

 

[Cycling111]

I get it. Roglic wasn't good in terms of endurance (look, what kind of preparation he had following his Giro crashes) but he still has a big engine.

That's why he's better at the Vuelta, Even though the routes are becoming less demanding, for the Giro and Tour it's important to be strong on the other mountain stages.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

That's why he's better at the Vuelta, Even though the routes are becoming less demanding, for the Giro and Tour it's important to be strong on the other mountain stages.

Surely he likes unipuerto stages, he can squeeze out pretty big w/kg. I still think he should be able to navigate through any mountain stage after good preparations (given his GT pedigree).