Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[CyclistAbi]

@red_flanders

It's for real. If you listen to the Wright post race interview. He admits Roglič had him on his knees when doing the pull. Barely managed to get back to the group and he admits he wouldn't have had the legs to contest the sprint. But i do believe him he didn't crash Roglič intentionally. What i am saying is it's a reason on why Roglič decided to elbow with Wright for position. He still wanted the bonification seconds. And felt stronger then Wright. And for a reason. There is another reason to be vocal about it and that is it's bound to happen in the future again. Hence if you are lets say a Bahrain sprinter. And a GC guy that had you or your knees is elbowing with you. Just let it go. No need to hit the deck. For nothing. If you really believe in your sprint then having a strong GC guy as lead out will end up working for you just fine.

 

[Bonimenier]

But i do believe him he didn't crash Roglič intentionally.

Wright didn't crash Roglic. Roglic crashed Roglic.

 

[red_flanders]

@red_flanders

It's for real. If you listen to the Wright post race interview. He admits Roglič had him on his knees when doing the pull. Barely managed to get back to the group and he admits he wouldn't have had the legs to contest the sprint. But i do believe him he didn't crash Roglič intentionally. What i am saying is it's a reason on why Roglič decided to elbow with Wright for position. He still wanted the bonification seconds. And felt stronger then Wright. And for a reason. There is another reason to be vocal about it and that is it's bound to happen in the future again. Hence if you are lets say a Bahrain sprinter. And a GC guy that had you or your knees is elbowing with you. Just let it go. No need to hit the deck. For nothing. If you really believe in your sprint then having a strong GC guy as lead out will end up working for you just fine.

Wright did nothing but get run into by a guy who was gassed and misjudged the spacing. Wright didn't crash anyone, obviously, so there's no "intentionally" involved. There is no (rational) debate about who should have been doing what, sprinter or GC. A guy ran into another guy and crashed himself out of the race. Period.

Wright didn't crash Roglic. Roglic crashed Roglic.

That was a hell of a lot more succinct than my blather.

 

[Extinction]

No i don't agree with that. And if i remember correctly Eurosport commentators said something of the same in the heat of the moment. This situation was rather different as Roglič was not a typical lead out. His job was not done. Hence once he decided this is it. It was his job to get back in the bunch. This is something that doesn't normally happen in a bunch sprint finale. For lead out to get back in the bunch.

What i feel happened next is Roglič evaluated Wright can't cope and he wanted to position himself in front of Wright. As Wright wasn't able to cope. And Roglič didn't want to lose seconds. I don't feel it was intentional. But in my opinion Wright should back off. As he was out of contention already and no need to be that aggressive.

But Wright was ahead, thus it was up to Roglic to not get tangled up in his rear wheel. I mean it's elementary my dear Watson, cycling 101, etc., and so forth.

 

[acm]

In one of the crashes he dislocated his shoulder at TdF so that's more than 'just caught behind'.

I thought it was obvious that I meant another "crash" beside the one where he dislocated his shoulder and broke vertebrae.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Good thing CyclistAbi isn't a cyclist because he would fail every drugtest.

He would presumably also cause a few crashes, but blame them on non-GC riders daring to sprint against him and the lack of proper protectional clothing.

 

[CyclistAbi]

My stance on this is Roglič was positioning himself to contest the sprint for bonus seconds and Wright was cooked.

 

[roundabout]

Roglic was going backwards in the last straight to last place in the group when the crash happened. I am not sure in what universe he would have turned things around in the remaining <75m to get at least 3rd.

 

[SHAD0W93]

My stance on this is Roglič was positioning himself to contest the sprint for bonus seconds and Wright was cooked.

That’s all fine and dandy but Roglic was behind Wright. Cooked Wright stayed on his bike after being crashed into. No rider that’s not on your same team is giving up their wheel and position at the end when they have a chance for a placement. Better yet, where was Wright going to go to allow Roglic the wheel? Into the barrier and crash himself so Roglic can have the space? Hit the brakes and lose time when he was right there?

And for Wright or another Bahrain rider to use Roglic on a leadout? That’s a great leadout when you’re less than 100 meters from the line and the rider you should follow to lead you out is behind you.

 

[Netserk]

I haven't checked if it has been posted in one of the ignored posts, but just to make it clear what caused the crash:

Thanks for the video. This was the point of contact:

It's straightforward. Rogla was at fault.

 

[Ripper]

Wright didn't crash Roglic. Roglic crashed Roglic.

Yup, it's like this.

For @CyclistAbi , look, I like Roglic's aggression and attacking style. But as they have said in Top Gun, he writes cheques his body can't cash. He can get a bit too crazy and gasses himself. He took himself out of the Vuelta.

 

[Ripper]

Roglic was physically and strategically done and wanted to maintain contact with the group. Wright did nothing wrong, at all. Cardinal rule of sprinting: if your bottom bracket is ahead of another rider you own the line, especially if that rider is going backward. Roglic's crew new it was his mistake and had nothing to say about it. He's made some good sprint finishes (the one schooling everyone in this Vuelta) but I'd say he's been willing to stray into pinched areas. Check him in the run in to this stage crash at about 7km. He's riding the right side barriers with no where to go. He's.........not.........a..........sprinter. He's a very fast GC guy out of small groups.

This is a great post

 

[Oldermanish]

@Oldermanish

I seen him elbowing a bit on a race or two this year. I just don't feel it should come to that. Next time just back off if you are in it for nothing and you know that. That is if a GC guy is elbowing with you in a sprint finale. And you already know the best you can do is to finish fourth. You ought to know the GC guy is in it for more. Especially if he dropped you a couple of meters back.

So a fading leadout guy leans on your asscheek at speed trying to regain the groups' draft to maintain his time gains on the field.... in the last 600m of a sprint and your recommendation is to let off pace and invite him to crash both of you? Primoz made contact with the back end of Wright's whatever...hip, butt, wheel. Wright's lucky he didn't go down.
Incidentally: every rider is competing for WT points as well as podium credentials for stages and the Vuelta. Wright does what he should.

 

[Gargamel35]

This one was totally on Roglič and i'm his fan. Nothing to say here, except it was luck he didn't cause Wright to crash too. It was a mistake in a heat of a moment.
CyclistAbi, your takes about Roglič in last months here are beyond any logic, even for a Roglič stan. You do more harm than good. And this is me (Huge Roglič fan) talking.

 

[Davesta]

My stance on this is Roglič was positioning himself to contest the sprint for bonus seconds and Wright was cooked.

But Roglic positioned himself on the floor. That’s terrible positioning if you’re trying to contest a sprint. Sounds like Roglic needs to work on his positioning.

 

[bNator]

My stance on this is Roglič was positioning himself to contest the sprint for bonus seconds and Wright was cooked.

Even if that was true (which according to my stance it wasn't), that still doesn't grant Roglič the right of passage.

I mean seriously @CyclistAbi - fan or not, you need to keep some perspective. The simple fact is that Roglič was the last one in the group the moment the crash happened. Irrespectively of what was going to happen had he not crashed - it could not have been anyone else's fault but his own.

 

[topcat]

And the meaning doesn't matter
Nor the way you play the game
To the winner or the loser
Who's to bless and who's to blame?

 

[CyclistAbi]

For me it was more of an analysis. Not blame. As this situations are bound to happen again in the future. Roglič, contrary to most other GC riders, did and will contests sprints. I don't believe positioning or bad biking skills were at fault. Next time just use more elbow. For the other rider to back off. To cut him off. Roglič still had much to gain. Bonus seconds. Wright was cooked and only in his way. In such situation is appropriate to position yourself at front of the other rider.

I am not saying to be aggressive to the extent one will crash. This is not appropriate in modern cycling anymore. On top of that a champion like Primož doing that to a kid trying to move up in world. That wouldn't bode well.

To be more concrete. If Primož would extend the elbow, to gain a buffer, a knee or some other body part, or wheel ... that wouldn't land and do the damage. Wright would back off.

Bottom line. More skill needed when elbowing for position. That was needed here.

 

[Extinction]

For me it was more of an analysis. Not blame. As this situations are bound to happen again in the future. Roglič, contrary to most other GC riders, did and will contests sprints. I don't believe positioning or bad biking skills were at fault. Next time just use more elbow. For the other rider to back off. To cut him off. Roglič still had much to gain. Bonus seconds. Wright was cooked and only in his way. In such situation is appropriate to position yourself at front of the other rider.

Bottom line. More skill needed when elbowing for position. That was needed here.

This is merely dillussional. For on thing, he was on last reserves, and for another was last in the gruppetto. There was nobody to elbow, except Wright's rear cog, which he rammed into with his front wheel, and thin air. The only thing he should have been doing is safely riding in the slipstream. The fact that his misfortune was nobody's fault but his own, is summed up by neither he nor the team has made one complaint and only talked about the mental blow.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@Extinction

Next time just extend the elbow and use it as a buffer. It's as simple as that. No special additional energy needed for that.

Some sort of contact will happen. But it won't have any meaningful effects. Cooked rider will back off.

And do that more back in the bunch too. As JV has no real intention to keep Roglič ahead of the bunch on GT races. Roglič will continue to do that alone. Protect himself with elbow.

 

[bNator]

For me it was more of an analysis. Not blame. As this situations are bound to happen again in the future. Roglič, contrary to most other GC riders, did and will contests sprints. I don't believe positioning or bad biking skills were at fault. Next time just use more elbow. For the other rider to back off. To cut him off. Roglič still had much to gain. Bonus seconds. Wright was cooked and only in his way. In such situation is appropriate to position yourself at front of the other rider.

Bottom line. More skill needed when elbowing for position. That was needed here.

What are you basing your "analysis" on? The fact that Roglič is good and he surely is going to get bonus seconds? Please watch the tape and stop talking nonsense... Roglič was leading the pack on the exit of the lasty corner, which was 13 seconds from the finish. In the next 8 seconds, he lost 4 bike lengths to everybody else while Wright did not lose any bike length to anyone but kept his position relative to everbody else. That was 5 seconds from the finsih...

If anything, Roglič's lesson should be that he has more to lose as a GC rider than Wright, so he should be careful with the elbows. Not that he can use them from behind anyway...

 

[CyclistAbi]

@bNator

Yes. I am basing my analysis on the fact Roglič would out sprint Wright on this stage. As Wright was cooked. And after all Roglič was gaining on him. When the crash occurred. Otherwise crash couldn't have happen.

Next time just use the elbow as a buffer. And it should end better. For both parties involved.

 

[Gargamel35]

@bNator

Yes. I am basing my analysis on the fact Roglič would out sprint Wright on this stage. As Wright was cooked. And after all Roglič was gaining on him. When the crash occurred. Otherwise crash couldn't have happen.

Next time just use the elbow as a buffer. And it should end better. For both parties involved.

Using elbow on 10 to 20kg heavier sprinter will cause him to crash...again. No GC guy will risk it all with that kind of move.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@Gargamel35

Weight it's not really a problem here. When the contact happens it's like saying. Well hello. I am here. Moving ahead. Can you please back off. The worst this to happen is for the buffer to diminish a bit. No big deal.

Much better then lets say getting a knee jerk reaction. Without the buffer involved.

 

[bNator]

@CyclistAbi how do you know he did not use elbows?