Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[Bonimenier]

Pogi has never won a one-week stage race against Rogla. Not once. Of the 7 greatest, he has only ridden 6 throughout his career, and won one of them each of the past three seasons.

Last time they met, Rogla won the 2021 Itzulia.

Pogacar rides away of the opposition at will in 1week stage races. Roglic might have won 3 this year, but not once dropped everyone. I don't see how you can unironically say that Roglic is a better 1 week stage racer.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Vuelta a España 2023 - Analysing the contenders

Ranking the favourites for the maillot rojo

www.cyclingnews.com

At the beginning of the season Rogla was listed rather low in such lists and finally a deserving spot was given. On the very top.

 

[Netserk]

Merijn Zeeman van Jumbo-Visma wil met twéé kopmannen in de Vuelta strijden

Jumbo-Visma gaat zaterdag met de twee absolute kopmannen Jonas Vingegaard en Primoz Roglic in de Ronde van Spanje op jacht naar een unieke trilogie...

www.trouw.nl

Zeeman: "[...] we will focus on the Vuelta with both leaders in equal roles."
[...]
Zeeman sees no clash of interests and invokes the team's slogan: win together. The two will ride the Tour together in 2024, as they did in 2022. "Our main principle is that only the final victory of a Jumbo-Visma rider counts. As a team, you quickly realise that when you start with two leaders who are complementary to each other, the chances of achieving that goal increase."

 

[SHAD0W93]

Vuelta a España 2023 - Analysing the contenders

Ranking the favourites for the maillot rojo

www.cyclingnews.com

At the beginning of the season Rogla was listed rather low in such lists and finally a deserving spot was given. On the very top.

The only article Roglic was ranked low in was the Tour one which you threw a big stink about despite him not going. Otherwise it was just posters rating him low.

 

[CyclistAbi]

The only article Roglic was ranked low in was the Tour one which you threw a big stink about despite him not going. Otherwise it was just posters rating him low.

There was several other ones mentioned and discussed in this thread. Now a thing of the past.

 

[CyclistAbi]

As for the long discussion and the gist of it. On how Rogla didn't work for van Aert at worlds and now a Dane should beat him to help another star from Belgium to win Vuetla.

Ain't gonna happen.

 

[CyclistAbi]

As for stage racing rankings. If Rogla wins Vuelta he takes the crown of currently being the best stage racer. That is not even up for discussion. If Rogla doesn't win then it's Jonas. Then Pogi. Remco still has some proving left to do. Winning Vuelta would likely push him a bit ahead. Compared to current rankings.

 

[Berniece]

As for stage racing rankings. If Rogla wins Vuelta he takes the crown of currently being the best stage racer. That is not even up for discussion.

Why? Pogacar isn’t here. Vingegaard isn’t in TDF form. He barely won the Giro and didn’t show he could win it until the last TT. Not to mention his biggest competitor fell out due to covid.

Top 3? Sure. Best in the world? Lol.

 

[topcat]

As for stage racing rankings. If Rogla wins Vuelta he takes the crown of currently being the best stage racer. That is not even up for discussion. If Rogla doesn't win then it's Jonas. Then Pogi. Remco still has some proving left to do. Winning Vuelta would likely push him a bit ahead. Compared to current rankings.

There seems to be a bit of discussion about it. I admire your dedication to Roglic. Are you both from the same one horse town?

 

[CyclistAbi]

Why? Pogacar isn’t here. Vingegaard isn’t in TDF form. He barely won the Giro and didn’t show he could win it until the last TT. Not to mention his biggest competitor fell out due to covid.

Top 3? Sure. Best in the world? Lol.

They are all here bar Pogi and Pogi finished second at the Tour. Giro-Vuelta double tops that any day.

P.S. Plus a couple of other sweet stage race wins. Where there was no such circumstances involved. As for the form of Jonas. Rogla won Vueltas after Tour in the past. Hence this is calculated in the rankings. That is if Rogla can do two and Jonas can't. That i guess is that for this season rankings.

 

[CyclistAbi]

There seems to be a bit of discussion about it. I admire your dedication to Roglic. Are you both from the same one horse town?

Assumption of bias is not necessary here. Pogi for example was great at PN. His Tour performance and the result on the other hand can't really push him ahead of potential Giro-Vuelta winner. Remco currently can't be ahead of Rogla. Hence it's Rogla vs. Jonas for now. If one of them wins Vuelta.

 

[Extinction]

Mamma mia, from what can be gleaned from the latest CN report, daggers will be hidden

As for stage racing rankings. If Rogla wins Vuelta he takes the crown of currently being the best stage racer. That is not even up for discussion. If Rogla doesn't win then it's Jonas. Then Pogi. Remco still has some proving left to do. Winning Vuelta would likely push him a bit ahead. Compared to current rankings.

Nonsence, the Tour ends the discussion; and you are hearing it from one who enjoys all the GTs, but the Tour is the Tour. It determines the hierarchy.

 

[SHAD0W93]

There was several other ones mentioned and discussed in this thread. Now a thing of the past.

No there wasn’t unless you have a different definition of several. I went from page 350-450 and these were the only two (unless it was in another language), a climbers only ranking and the Tour ranking. The climber one was done in February and based on last years results and how they’ll fair this year. Roglic was ranked lower due to his worse climbing form he showed in 2022, age, and the multiple injuries. All of which he backed up with the only great climbing performance he has had was the MTT, albeit it won him the overall. The second is again a Tour ranking that he wasn’t scheduled to do.

Top 10 Climbers for the 2023 Season - Lanterne Rouge

The 2022 cycling season was full of top level climbing performances with many records broken and new climbers bursting onto the scene. The list of Top 10 climbing performances of 2022 was dominated by Evenepoel and Vingegaard but will the same riders dominate the long ascents in WorldTour races...

lanternerouge.com

Roglic behind Jay Vine is downright disrespectful.

This list, you reposted twice after the original posting.

Tour de France 2023 – Analysing the contenders

The final form ranking for the yellow jersey contenders

www.cyclingnews.com

Looks like Rogla is out of top 10 and bubbling under section again. We will have to do something about that too. But for now stage one of Catalunya it is.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Mamma mia, from what can be gleaned from the latest CN report, daggers will be hidden

Nonesence, the Tour ends the discussion; and you are hearing it from one who enjoys all the GTs, but the Tour is the Tour. It determines the hierarchy.

Tour against Giro, Tour against Vuelta ... for sure. There Tour is ranked higher in the hierarchy. Winning the Tour indeed is the most prestigious act of stage racing. Tour against the double, on where only the cyclist that finished second at the Tour is missing from the equation. That is another story. That is when we are talking about stage racing crown for the season.

 

[theyoungest]

Do you have shares in Jumbo?

I know the one true opinion is that Roglic should leave Jumbo, but that doesn't mean that you can't disagree... right?

 

[CyclistAbi]

No there wasn’t unless you have a different definition of several. I went from page 350-450 and these were the only two (unless it was in another language), a climbers only ranking and the Tour ranking.

I like that you went the extra mile. I do appreciate that. Most of the posters on the internet in this day and age would never do that. Thank you.

The climber one was done in February and based on last years results and how they’ll fair this year. Roglic was ranked lower due to his worse climbing form he showed in 2022, age, and the multiple injuries. All of which he backed up with the only great climbing performance he has had was the MTT, albeit it won him the overall. The second is again a Tour ranking that he wasn’t scheduled to do.

And i guess due to being boring?

All in all he was ranked ridiculous at the beginning of this season. And all the people doing that now have to move him up a bit. To lets say third place of fourth place. CN went out on a limb this time. Ranking him as the top favorite. Bold move.

No risk, no glory!

 

[CyclistAbi]

GCN also reached out to team boss Richard Plugge. His response was similarly emphatic.

"Primož is our king from 2016 onwards," he said in a text message.

Primož Roglič to Lidl-Trek is 'complete bullshit' says Jumbo-Visma

Jumbo-Visma responds to reports linking Primož Roglič with a move to Lidl-Trek

www.globalcyclingnetwork.com

There you have it. Now onto La Vuetla! Time for some holidays! Well deserved Primož, well deserved.

 

[Rob5091]

Horner went on about Roglic moving in the Spring (when Ineos were apparently interested). That was because of Roglic's chance to ride the Tour as team leader. As was discussed back then, that ship seems to have sailed as racing against Pogacar & Vingegaard will be very tough.

 

[SHAD0W93]

I like that you went the extra mile. I do appreciate that. Most of the posters on the internet in this day and age would never do that. Thank you.



And i guess due to being boring?

All in all he was ranked ridiculous at the beginning of this season. And all the people doing that now have to move him up a bit. To lets say third place of fourth place. CN went out on a limb this time. Ranking him as the top favorite. Bold move.

No risk, no glory!

No for the reasons I stated that are expanded upon in the article. This season he’s looked great on one climb, otherwise has looked to be struggling and has the superior sprint. This is then highlighted by his winning time being predominantly from bonus seconds or the TTT. Do you really think Pogacar or Vinge wouldn’t have beaten him in any of the stage races he has done?

For the Vuelta he’s rated higher due to despite his struggles he’s still hanging on and beating the second tier while showing a better recovery. Plus his track record of double attempts and this looks like his best build up to a GT. Only potential issue he has is Vinge taking part.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@SHAD0W93

This year in my opinion yes. Rogla would have a good shot at beating Pogi at the Tour. Considering Rogla adapted and evolved into a better stage racer, due to Pogi forcing him to do that. And due to Pogi struggling for numerous reasons involved. For racin against Jonas. Best to wait and see at Vuelta. On how that goes.

 

[Extinction]

Jonas Vingegaard: We don’t need to decide now on our Vuelta team leader

Tour de France star returns to Vuelta a España after three-year absence alongside Jumbo teammate Primoz Roglic

www.cyclingnews.com

This is not going to end well: Vingo, "We work pretty well together..."/ Roglic, "Kuss could become the team leader." Freud would have a ball with this.

 

[CyclistAbi]

IMHO indeed Kuss is in it for the win too.

 

[Extinction]

Tour against Giro, Tour against Vuelta ... for sure. There Tour is ranked higher in the hierarchy. Winning the Tour indeed is the most prestigious act of stage racing. Tour against the double, on where only the cyclist that finished second at the Tour is missing from the equation. That is another story. That is when we are talking about stage racing crown for the season.

Fair enough, but still the Tour peak is higher than a single peak to win either Giro or Vuelta, which doesn't change if you combine Giro and Vuelta, because there is enough time in between to consider them individually. Having placed second in the Tour doesn't change that.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

No for the reasons I stated that are expanded upon in the article. This season he’s looked great on one climb, otherwise has looked to be struggling and has the superior sprint. This is then highlighted by his winning time being predominantly from bonus seconds or the TTT. Do you really think Pogacar or Vinge wouldn’t have beaten him in any of the stage races he has done?

For the Vuelta he’s rated higher due to despite his struggles he’s still hanging on and beating the second tier while showing a better recovery. Plus his track record of double attempts and this looks like his best build up to a GT. Only potential issue he has is Vinge taking part.

I don’t 100% disagree with you here. I would say that he also looked great on Lo Port though. I know it was a single climb outside a GC, but they were huge numbers, and he beat Remco, who went all out for it. His climbing outside the MTT and the short climb on stage 8 was pretty underwhelming, I agree, but tough to know how much if that is due to his crash.

If I were a betting man, I would say that Roglic would have been behind Pogacar for most of the Tour but finished second behind Vingegaard by less than 5 minutes. Just a pure guess, though. So I would put Roglic over Pogi in GC rankings for 2023 if he wins the Vuelta. However, I think without the wrist injury Pogi still would have lost but not collapsed, so maybe 3 minutes back. Again, total guess.

 

[Red Rick]

Jonas Vingegaard: We don’t need to decide now on our Vuelta team leader

Tour de France star returns to Vuelta a España after three-year absence alongside Jumbo teammate Primoz Roglic

www.cyclingnews.com

This is not going to end well: Vingo, "We work pretty well together..."/ Roglic, "Kuss could become the team leader." Freud would have a ball with this.

"What still motivates you?"

Vingegaard: "Breaking the TdF record"

Roglic: "GC Kuss memes"