Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[Elos Anjos]

Don't confuse uncomfortable truths with disrespectful statements. You need to tell what did you consider a disrespectful statement, to answer more specifically to you.

That's easy. What you say are always uncomfortable truths that others don't handle very well. What others say are in turn disrespectul or childful statements.

That's the shortest way to always write the same trash over and over again without any logical backing.

 

[CyclistAbi]

We could i guess compare Bora and Visma and their ability to win multiple GTs in the 2024 season. Based on the roster. So we could say Visma has a shot with Jonas and Kuss. Then when we come to Bora. It doesn't look that bad. To be honest. There is GT depth beyond Roglič.

Still in the 2024 season i feel both teams will back their main rooster at the Tour. Triple GT attempts hence maybe in the 2025 season, or after.

 

[Froome]

To (maybe) win one GT per year, indeed. We'll see.

At least two, or they can't win again the Tour and Vuelta?

 

[CyclistAbi]

At least two, or they can't win again the Tour and Vuelta?

When you say at least two, that sort of implies you believe Visma can actually win all three GTs in the 2024 season again. Considering both Sepp and Jonas are not going to the Giro. That implies van Aert or potentially Cian to win the Giro? Could be. I just find that less likely. So in my opinion at least two hence comes down to at best two. Considering both Jonas and Sepp might do Tour-Vuelta. That is not all that unreasonable to expect. Based on all the circumstances i would give it, at best, one and a half chance. We'll see.

 

[Froome]

When you say at least two, that sort of implies you believe Visma can actually win all three GTs in the 2024 season again. Considering both Sepp and Jonas are not going to the Giro. That implies van Aert or potentially Cian to win the Giro? Could be. I just find that less likely. So in my opinion at least two hence comes down to at best two. Considering both Jonas and Sepp might do Tour-Vuelta. That is not all that unreasonable to expect. Based on all the circumstances i would give it, at best, one and a half chance. We'll see.

I said Visma can win Tour and vuelta (two at least, not one) with Vingegaard and Kuss. Giro i think no chance, it's for pogi if nothing bad happens to him.

 

[CyclistAbi]

For helping Jonas at the Tour i doubt Sepp would settle with Jonas going for the double. Now that there is GC Kuss. Unless i guess Jonas or Sepp wouldn't win the Tour. Then likely both would go to Vuelta. Try to save the GT season. So i see it at one and a half, at best. Chances to win both next year. We'll see.

 

[Elos Anjos]

What about Jai Hindley and Vlasov? Will they go to the Giro or to the Tour?

 

[Froome]

For helping Jonas at the Tour i doubt Sepp would settle with Jonas going for the double. Now that there is GC Kuss. Unless i guess Jonas or Sepp wouldn't win the Tour. Then likely both would go to Vuelta. Try to save the GT season. So i see it at one and a half, at best. Chances to win both next year. We'll see.

Why they can't win the Tour and vuelta with Vingegaard? They can also win the Tour with Vingegaard and the vuelta with kuss.

Kuss and vingegaard will do again together the tour and vuelta.

Kuss will be have a protected role in the tour, a bit like adam yates this year, so he can have a good result in the Tour (top 10), he can win a stage, and help vingegaard, just like yates did for pogacar.

In the vuelta they can go the two as leaders, due to the fact that kuss is the reigning champion. Then, the less stronger works for the other.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Why they can't win the Tour and vuelta with Vingegaard?

 

[CyclistAbi]

What about Jai Hindley and Vlasov? Will they go to the Giro or to the Tour?

In my opinion the best will go to the Tour in the 2024 season.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

View: https://youtu.be/r703iGbkfVU?si=WqcUZWns0jWpd2Or

 

[CyclistAbi]

@Ilmaestro99

What i meant is if Visma won't give leadership position at one GT in 2024 season to Sepp. Then he might not race for Visma in 2025 any more. Considering he will be free to chose his team at the end of 2024 season. And i am sure that a lot of teams would give him leadership position including the Tour.

GC Kuss is now real and as such needs to feast.

 

[bNator]

Don't confuse uncomfortable truths with disrespectful statements. You need to tell what did you consider a disrespectful statement, to answer more specifically to you.

I don’t think I’m in the mood for an exchange with anyone who tends to call their opinions (and I’m being nice here, provocations is much more accurate) “truths”. I’ve said what I wanted to say - not so much to get a response from you but to remind everyone who they’re dealing with before they waste their time replying to you…

 

[Froome]

I don’t think I’m in the mood for an exchange with anyone who tends to call their opinions (and I’m being nice here, provocations is much more accurate) “truths”. I’ve said what I wanted to say - not so much to get a response from you but to remind everyone who they’re dealing with before they waste their time replying to you…

Then, why you are wasting time quoting me?! Even, in this conversation you can't be coherent.

The users in this forum think by themselves, they don’t need you to tell them what to do.

 

[Froome]

I said that GC kuss is real!

 

[CyclistAbi]

I said that GC kuss is real!

There you have it. Jonas hence better to focus on the Tour as at Vuelta it's all about the GC Kuss. And i don't consider Kuss to be a serial GT winner just yet. That is on why i currently feel Visma, at best, can win one and a half GTs this year. Now obviously it's up to them. To achieve more or less or exactly that.

 

[Froome]

There you have it. Jonas hence better to focus on the Tour as at Vuelta it's all about the GC Kuss. And i don't consider Kuss to be a serial GT winner just yet. That is on why i currently feel Visma, at best, can win one and a half GTs this year. Now obviously it's up to them. To achieve more or less or exactly that.

One and half GT? How is that?

 

[Hugh Januss]

@Ilmaestro99

What i meant is if Visma won't give leadership position at one GT in 2024 season to Sepp. Then he might not race for Visma in 2025 any more. Considering he will be free to chose his team at the end of 2024 season. And i am sure that a lot of teams would give him leadership position including the Tour.

GC Kuss is now real and as such needs to feast.

"GC Kuss" was at best the 3rd strongest rider in the Vuelta, and I'm a Sepp Kuss fan. No way Kuss wins the Vuelta without the power of social media. If Kuss had been sole leader of Jumbo in the absence of Jonas and Roglic I don't think he wins either. He was allowed to go in that break because he was only third strongest in Jumbo. If Sepp goes off to be GC leader of another team I think he joins a bunch of others destined to finish somewhere between 3rd and tenth in every GT he contests.

 

[CyclistAbi]

One and half GT? How is that?

At best one win and one podium position.

"GC Kuss" was at best the 3rd strongest rider in the Vuelta, and I'm a Sepp Kuss fan. No way Kuss wins the Vuelta without the power of social media. If Kuss had been sole leader of Jumbo in the absence of Jonas and Roglic I don't think he wins either. He was allowed to go in that break because he was only third strongest in Jumbo. If Sepp goes off to be GC leader of another team I think he joins a bunch of others destined to finish somewhere between 3rd and tenth in every GT he contests.

Still, do you feel Kuss would get leadership role at the Tour, riding for a mid level (or up) team? Heck, even at Ineos.

 

[CyclistAbi]

I mean, and to end this debate from my side. There are 3 GTs and realistically Visma currently has two contenders, realistically in contention for a GT win. Pushing one of them back, by riding two GTs, with both of them in it.

Lets see if they try that and how it will turn out.

 

[Froome]

@Ilmaestro99

What i meant is if Visma won't give leadership position at one GT in 2024 season to Sepp. Then he might not race for Visma in 2025 any more. Considering he will be free to chose his team at the end of 2024 season. And i am sure that a lot of teams would give him leadership position including the Tour.

GC Kuss is now real and as such needs to feast.

Kuss signed a extension with visma until 2027.

 

[Rob5091]

I can see Visma sending a team of kiddies and a couple of old hands to the Giro, to see how the newbies cope and to see what numbers Pogacar is doing. Pushing Pogacar at the Giro will pay off in the Tour.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Kuss signed a extension with visma until 2027.

So Jonas for the double then in the 2024 season. Unless i guess they made a deal, for Sepp to ride one GT as a leader. As a part of new contract negotiations.

Then again, Sepp is free to say i am with them now. And what exactly is Visma going to do?

 

[Rackham]

I can see Visma sending a team of kiddies and a couple of old hands to the Giro, to see how the newbies cope and to see what numbers Pogacar is doing. Pushing Pogacar at the Giro will pay off in the Tour.

The only way a Visma rider is getting close enough to 'push Pog' at the Giro is in the bunch. Literally. It'll be a walk in the park for Pogačar, as long as he stays fit & doesn't have a snafu.

I'm also curious to see how Visma keeps everyone happy (all season). There's a lot of big names & big ambitions now in that team. WvA won't sacrifice himself in the Giro for Uijtdebroeks, that's for certain. Olav Kooij is in for a GT stage win as well.

Meanwhile one of my favorite guys Koen Bouwman (aka one of the good guys) is probably going to get the short end of the stick in terms of rider program, along with a few other 'culture bearers' whose prospects take a backseat versus the needs of all these recent transfers.

 

[CyclistAbi]

When it comes to GC racing. Visma ATM basically has Jonas and Sepp. And they might even plan to push Jonas ahead of Sepp on two GTs. Making everybody happy hence likely shouldn't be such a big problem, for Visma, as they are a bit short on options in the first place. Currently i don't feel Cian is quite there yet.

Visma is not Rogličes team any more. From Rogličes perspective, now, beating Jonas is basically what it comes down to. So it's more about Bora. Managing expectations at Bora. The roster is in my opinion good. Now if it can assemble itself in a cohesive matter.

Then we are good.