Heaven forbid bad luck or *** like that to be involved, when it comes to main competitors at the Tour, beating them simply by performing better, that is what the main goal is here.
- Apr 14, 2021
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Just to be clear, I’m not calling for bad luck on anyone. I’m a fan of both of them (Rog & Pog). I’m merely illustrating that Rog may in fact be second in line this year and his goal of winning the Tour is far from delusional.
@bNator
Fair point. The problem i see, Pogi, Jonas or Remco having misfortune, people would claim Rogla only won due to their misfortune. We won't have that!
Fair point. The problem i see, Pogi, Jonas or Remco having misfortune, people would claim Rogla only won due to their misfortune. We won't have that!
- Mar 15, 2022
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I say "who the f* cares" what they claim.
You can also say that Vingegaard or Pogačar only won due to Rogla's misfortune.
- Feb 18, 2015
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You really can't though.
Yeah, perception is currently really askew, to the point it's awry or better ***. So lets make it a rule, Rogla is only beating healthy and peaking champions at Tour 2025. Otherwise what is the point, rather win another Vuelta, there you are respected. Imagine winning the Tour in this era, age 35, and then being perceived as being lucky. *** that.
I think Roglic and the rest of us would take the win.
Not like that, Rogla is old enough, knows better. Anyway, onto the Giro! Tour will have to wait.
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- Sep 12, 2022
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There is a case to be made about TDF 2020 though. It's not like Roglic had the best preparation there.
- Feb 18, 2015
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You mean the race where Pogacar lost one and a half minutes due to a mechanical in the crosswinds? I guess everyone is free to make whatever argument they want to make.
But it's the claim about Vingegaard which is complete nonsense. Nobody can seriously think Roglic was gonna win the 2022 Tour without crashing.
- Feb 20, 2012
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Yes, that race, the one with a large crash during the Dauphine, and a long series of tactical and strategical blunders. I think it's quite disingenuous to say that just because it happened it was always the most likely scenario and just a natural consequence of rider level and that there wasn't a lot that fell Pogacar's way that year.
For 2022, there's a large gap between "was going to win" and "had no chance". I think there is a chance Roglic is the one benefitting from the 2v1 on Pogacar and Vingegaard ends up in a cage. But Vingegaard winning that one is always by far the most likely.
I mean we are only returning to TDF 2020 due to that be the last Tour edition Rogla finished. Since 2020 there was nothing in regards to the Tour, not directly due to cyclists like Pogi or Jonas. So one can up to a point understand from where the askew perception comes from. And even for 2020 season some claim Pogi was not prime Pogi just yet. So even if Rogla would have won that edition, people would still likely say things like on how he was lucky Pogi was not prime Pogi yet.
Season 2025 will likely provide some new perspective on this, it's bound to happen.
Season 2025 will likely provide some new perspective on this, it's bound to happen.
- Feb 18, 2015
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I agree the 2020 Tour could have gone either way. But saying Pogacar only won because of Roglic's misfortune is clearly implying that if neither had any bad luck, Roglic was always gonna be the winner and that I strongly disageee with.
Making the same argument with Vingegaard in 2022 is just crazy. Next I'm claiming Thomas only won the Tour because Nibali crashed on broke back mountain.
Probably more apppriopriate in this thread:
He could have the 4th or 5th best GT palmares this century but even then he simply is not close to Contador and Froome.
Nah, not even close.
He could have the 4th or 5th best GT palmares this century but even then he simply is not close to Contador and Froome.
- Mar 20, 2022
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- Jul 4, 2016
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Delgado would have won the 1989 tour if he had showed up to the prologue on time, not have been dropped by his team in the ttt and had been able to sleep at night. Robbed.
- Feb 20, 2012
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I'm not really following. But emotionally I'm all on board with the broke back mountain argumentation.
For 2022 I don't relaly question the level was Vingegaard > Pog > Roglic, but I also think the 2 were less ahead of the rest than they would become later and Rog may be close enough to benefit going full 2v1 on Pogacar. And I'm talking single digit percent here.
Pogacar was already super eager to follow Roglic with a broken back, and Vingegaard always attacked first when those 2 were teaming up.
- Feb 18, 2015
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My point is not that Roglic never had a chance of winning. If you say "Vingegaard got a little lucky Roglic crashed" I tend to agree even though I think it's very unlikely to have changed the outcome. But the quote was "Vingegaard only won the Tour because Roglic crashed" and that's just taking it way too far.
- Feb 20, 2012
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Yeah I agree. There was quite the narrative at the time that Pog lost the Tour because he blew up on Granon and I think that really sold Vingegaard short that Tour, but that kind of went away after 2023.
If Rog hand't crashed, maybe Pog could't follow one of his attacks. Also depends on which of Jonas and Rog attacked first etc.
- Feb 18, 2015
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Tbh that would have been the single best thing to happen to Pogacar that Tour
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If Pogi had known how badly injured Rogla was, he should've let Rogla go.
- Apr 14, 2021
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I don’t think it’s as simple as that. It wasn’t Pog’s belief that Rogla was threat as much as it was Pog’s ego telling him he should prove those TJV clowns he can take 2 of them at once. Or 3… That hasn’t changed much for Pog in all these years except for the fact that now his legs can keep up with the ego…
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