Everyone is doping? A Fallacy?

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Nov 7, 2010
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Ferminal said:
Where have I disrespected him? He's just misunderstood me, I'm attempting to clarify... Can you please contribute to the topic or leave?
You are full of your own nonsense and you believe it.
 
Apr 19, 2010
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Ferminal said:
Can you stop taking my words out of context?

When you start seeing sprinters and time trialists fighting at the end of classics or tough stages, they will be part of the blood doping elite until then they are specialists who cannot be directly compared to the others. You might as well ask why Chris Hoy, Alex Rasmussen and Cameron Meyer aren't "elite".



You're welcome to join in the discussion and divulge your superior knowledge.

Im not taking your words out of context, Im taking them for what they are - B****cks.

There isn't a universe known to man where a 15 time tour de france stage winner can be classified as anything other than "elite"

Your knowledge of cycling is obviously limited, but let me help you out- Milan San Remo. Heard of it?
 
Nov 7, 2010
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Ferminal said:
Where have I disrespected him? He's just misunderstood me, I'm attempting to clarify... Can you please contribute to the topic or leave?
you are addicted to the internet you need help with your addiction are you over weight:eek:
 
Nov 7, 2010
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andy1234 said:
Im not taking your words out of context, Im taking them for what they are - B****cks.

There isn't a universe known to man where a 15 time tour de france stage winner can be classified as anything other than "elite"

Your knowledge of cycling is obviously limited, but let me help you out- Milan San Remo. Heard of it?
damn right andy1234 the guy ferminal has not got a clue he is addicted to the internet
 
andy1234 said:
Im not taking your words out of context, Im taking them for what they are - B****cks.

There isn't a universe known to man where a 15 time tour de france stage winner can be classified as anything other than "elite"

Your knowledge of cycling is obviously limited, but let me help you out- Milan San Remo. Heard of it?
I never said he wasn't elite, all ProTour cyclists can be considered elite (you can't get any higher competition), but if you were to break this crop down, you would realise that there are a bunch of cyclists who on the road (not in a sprint, not in a time trial) are the top tier.

You can say the same thing for sprinting - Cavendish, Farrar, Greipel, Petacchi these are all distinctly better than most of the others.

Likewise time trialing - Martin, Cancellara, Millar, Larsson.

If you disagree with me, I'd like to see what names you like as the "strongest on the road" (note I simply mentioned the ones off the top of my head).
 
Dear "The Devil"

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It appears as though you post at a higher frequency then myself, are you overweight?
 
Nov 7, 2010
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if he tried to cycle 100 miles it would completly break the dude both mentally and physically . any one who has not experienced what it is like to suffer on a bicycle and i WOULD SAY THAT IS ABOUT 95 % OF THE PEOPLE 17 000 PLUS MEMBERS should not even attempt to post any thing related to cycling on this forum and as for all the anti doping advocates the word suffering on a bike is a clique to them if any of You were a professional cyclist You would be glad to get your injection of testosterone after a few days hard riding in the saddle why because it is needed to help a person stay sane that is one of the truths for the naive out there.
 
Apr 19, 2010
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Ferminal said:
I never said he wasn't elite, all ProTour cyclists can be considered elite (you can't get any higher competition), but if you were to break this crop down, you would realise that there are a bunch of cyclists who on the road (not in a sprint, not in a time trial) are the top tier.

You can say the same thing for sprinting - Cavendish, Farrar, Greipel, Petacchi these are all distinctly better than most of the others.

Likewise time trialing - Martin, Cancellara, Millar, Larsson.
Its all semantics.
Cavendish is riding on the road. Sprinters dont have seperate events.
 
Nov 7, 2010
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Ferminal said:
Dear "The Devil"

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It appears as though you post at a higher frequency then myself, are you overweight?
No You are over weight like the vast majority on this internet you are fat i am super fit and a i am laughing at all the idiots like yourself an when i say super fit i mean super fit loser try for example riding a ten mile tt in 19:45 can You match that I dont think so and a vo2 max of 72 can You match that or are you a girl
 
Nov 7, 2010
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andy1234 said:
Its all semantics.
Cavendish is riding on the road. Sprinters dont have seperate events.
are You two dudes chatting each other up there is a time and a place for that
 
andy1234 said:
Its all semantics.
Cavendish is riding on the road. Sprinters dont have seperate events.
I agree, we are arguing over nothing but semantics.

Cav will still win half a dozen stages in the Tour or Vuelta, with or without blood doping because his job is to go max effort for 250m or so, not 10, 20, 30km. But what about those that win stage races and hard classics?
 
Nov 7, 2010
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Ferminal said:
I agree, we are arguing over nothing but semantics.

Cav will still win half a dozen stages in the Tour or Vuelta, with or without blood doping because his job is to go max effort for 250m or so, not 10, 20, 30km. But what about those that win stage races and hard classics?
Dude cop Your self own get out get some exercise
 
Apr 19, 2010
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Ferminal said:
I agree, we are arguing over nothing but semantics.

Cav will still win half a dozen stages in the Tour or Vuelta, with or without blood doping because his job is to go max effort for 250m or so, not 10, 20, 30km. But what about those that win stage races and hard classics?
Sprinters are not racing over 250 metres, they are racing over the same distance everyone else is. The freshest sprinter at the end of 200km is often the winner. Blood doping has almost as much impact on the sprinters peformance as it does on the climbers, just the gaps are smaller.

Try riding 200k, then 3k at 90% then 250 metres at 100% and tell me if blood doping might help.

On topic - IF Cavendish is winning clean, its a good indicator of things being cleaner.
 
Nov 7, 2010
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May 26, 2010
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andy1234 said:
Sprinters are not racing over 250 metres, they are racing over the same distance everyone else is. The freshest sprinter at the end of 200km is often the winner. Blood doping has almost as much impact on the sprinters peformance as it does on the climbers, just the gaps are smaller.

Try riding 200k, then 3k at 90% then 250 metres at 100% and tell me if blood doping might help.

On topic - IF Cavendish is winning clean, its a good indicator of things being cleaner.
The indicator that Cav rides for the former T-Mobile team that has morphed into HTC suggests not.
 
Oct 31, 2010
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9 of the 25 posts in "new posts" relate to chat about doping.
Nearly 40% of chat relates to doping.
Meat this, Lance that, Wada the other.

Think about it.
 
Apr 13, 2010
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hrotha said:
Not sure why not being able or willing to ride regularly would make you an Untermensch but apparently that's a pretty widespread point of view in this forum.
That's because you obviously haven't doped if you're not a rider - I think that's what disqualifies you. Or simply that the non-pro riders on the forum are feeling less important and like proper bullies they have to punch someone else - the non-riders :)


Finbouy said:
9 of the 25 posts in "new posts" relate to chat about doping.
Nearly 40% of chat relates to doping.
Meat this, Lance that, Wada the other.

Think about it.
Erm, have you thought about not reading it, then, if it bothers you that much? Or do you just want to dictate what other people can and can't discuss? It's a bit like walking into a kitchen and complain about the heat...
 
Feb 12, 2010
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Finbouy said:
9 of the 25 posts in "new posts" relate to chat about doping.
Nearly 40% of chat relates to doping.
Meat this, Lance that, Wada the other.

Think about it.
Think about this.
Daily news of a new doper caught.
Fans leaving because they have no confidence in a clean system.
Systematic doping and cover ups all the way up to the UCI.
Profesional Cyclist being veiwed as dopers because of the actions of others.

We do think about it everyday.
Doping is wrecking our sport.
And personally it has taken away better placings I could have had
 
I see economic theory applied to the doping situation.

Economic theory says the vast majority of the people is risk averse. The gain of doping should be way bigger than the possibility of getting caught. It is often that riders only dope when they think they found a new substance that is not recognizable in tests (think of the whole CERA episode with Ricco, Schumacher, Kohl, Di Luca et al). All those riders had a significant increase in performance in that very year. All were caught.

Which means CERA is very effective (which it is), but also other doping is not as effective, following the line that everyone is doping (or at least the 30 best). With CERA we saw a sudden jump forwards by certain riders. Looking at the best riders of today I can only conclude that their progress was very gradual and predictable (with, of course, some exceptions). Which means they must be using the not-so-effective dope for years now, or they must be clean. If the best 30 are doping for years, they will know that the day one of them is caught with the not-so-effective doping will come closer every day. Following the risk aversion theory, they must at least try to ride without the not-so-effective doping for once. When they notice that the doping is not-so-effective (which it isn't, if we look at the gaps which were way bigger in the proven doping years, and looking at the progress young riders can make compared to that years), they will not dope instead, as they are risk averse.
 
Jul 2, 2009
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Benotti69 said:
The indicator that Cav rides for the former T-Mobile team that has morphed into HTC suggests not.
The only person who is still around (riders, management, doctors, anything) from the pre-Puerto T-Mobile days is Bernard Eisel. They're a completely different outfit. (Sure, some former riders are now management - but that doesn't really mean much to me)

EDIT: I'm wrong about Eisel - he joined as a stag in late 2006 with Cav.
 

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