Everyone is doping...care to comment

[Runitout]

okie yes they all taking somenthing????????what they take secret can we say dope dont know if the rigth word,they must perform or no job or peanut contract or no sponsor all those riders have family,kids,loan car ect??? how they can get the money then??????????
the only scenario i can recall for EVAN BASSO too be almost equal at LANCE ARMONSTRONG he was caugth too take what ever the name?????hmmmm so how can we justified all this hes so weird but they riders give us a such beautiful race so enjoyed i just have a blind eyes.those days money hes a dirty business the more we get the more we want the human been those days want too show what they got what ever they have too do????????? then my final say and hope many understand how those riders suffer on the bike how they have too endure the pain barrier just too try too stay on the whell or finished the race>>>?????

Just be sure to come back and tell us what it was like when it wears off, okay?

 

[Runitout]

Agreed, mountains don't tend to be paved, but how about mountain passes? Would you care to name a few of these MANY unpaved passes of the TdF or the Giro?

Kronplatz/Plan de Corones; Colle delle Fenestre, and the Passo di Gavia back in the day. That's all I got.

 

[Escarabajo]

Posted in another post and was surpirsed by the silence that followed. Anyone care to comment.

For me if the whole top 10 is doping it wouldn't surprise me, but i think if you take the best guy's performance minus the benefit from doping anyone who finishes there be just as talented and not doping, let alone more talented and not doping.

For example Pantani's record (36'50") up to alpe d'huez doped to the gills add 10% and 40'31 (play with numbers as you like you'll see my point) and anyone who can do this time, is possibly as talented as Pantani, just clean. The climb was timed in 1990 when lemond won the tour the fastest were between 40'30 and 42" So it fits right? Do you know who else managed this time? The groups that finished behind Sastre at the 2008 tour. Sastre was 39'30". So if the best guys in the world go to the Tour and perform as guys did before the spread of EPO...surely they could be clean right?

Apply the same logic to verbier and the Evans Kloden Armstrong is about there.

So...is it conceivable someone top 10 of the tour is clean?

I think when the experts talk about gains they refer to power outputs instead of time. Although they make reference to time, the better measure for the study is the power. Time can be misleading depending on the conditions. On the other hand the power is always there, whether you measure it or try to estimate it.

Measuring the power on Mountains is easier than in TT and that's why most data out there is mostly for mountain tops.

On the Verbier I estimated the first rider to get to the finish line with a 6 W/kg to be Sandy Casar. Armstrong was slightly over it but we all know that was a coincidence, because of the factors the he was racing on that day (38 yrs old and out of the competitive sport for three years). If we believe Lemond and other people who say that a 6 W/kg should be max for clean rider then a better estimate would be using this and not time. Remember that Contador was favored in that climb of a tail wind and nice paved road.

If somebody wants to check other times you can do it in this old thread:
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=2314

Is somebody wants to check the error in the calculations you can check it here:

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=2972&page=7

Having set that, we don’t know the potential and the health conditions in which each rider is riding for certain days, so to make estimation of who is clean or not you should find another method or combination of methods in which this one accounts for only one. Casar could be doping if his potential (VO2 max and Lactate threshold) are relatively low. So it would be a moot point to determine whether he is clean or not