Favorite Dopers & Favorite Clean Riders

[HoustonHammer]

Why not?

Evidence that lemond doped?

Umm, he was top of the sport when the pro peleton was 99.9% dirty. So, either he was naturally better than not just the whole rest of the peleton, but the whole rest of the peleton on dope, or he was a doper. That's very unfair logic, I know, but there it is.

Obviously, Greg's zeal for the subject can also be interpreted two ways. His relentless attacks on LA, to the point of self-destruction (thinking of his business interests in particular), make me suspicious. I can see how it would be galling to be a clean guy overshadowed by a doper, but it's hard not to see his approach as ultimately self-serving. And what is a doper's mentality if not supremely self-serving?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Umm, he was top of the sport when the pro peleton was 99.9% dirty. So, either he was naturally better than not just the whole rest of the peleton, but the whole rest of the peleton on dope, or he was a doper. That's very unfair logic, I know, but there it is.

Obviously, Greg's zeal for the subject can also be interpreted two ways. His relentless attacks on LA, to the point of self-destruction (thinking of his business interests in particular), make me suspicious. I can see how it would be galling to be a clean guy overshadowed by a doper, but it's hard not to see his approach as ultimately self-serving. And what is a doper's mentality if not supremely self-serving?

Lemonds career started in 1981, with his last TdF win in 1990.
A clean rider could compete and be successful with the peloton up to the era of EPO.

EPO was introduced to a few cyclists in Italy. I use Bugno as the reference on EPO, after floundering for years Bugno won the Giro in 1990 leading from start to finish - and he went on to finish 7th in the Tour.
Italians started to become competitive in all the Classics during the early 90's so it took a while for other teams and countries to avail of EPO and for the 'Sporting Doctors' to refine its use.

I don't know if Lemond was clean - but I would be certain he never took EPO as his career suffered when it was starting to become the drug of choice.

On your point that his outspokenness may be 'self-serving" - I don't see that as his bike business has suffered because of his comments not gained from it.

 

[Escarabajo]

Umm, he was top of the sport when the pro peleton was 99.9% dirty. So, either he was naturally better than not just the whole rest of the peleton, but the whole rest of the peleton on dope, or he was a doper. That's very unfair logic, I know, but there it is.

Obviously, Greg's zeal for the subject can also be interpreted two ways. His relentless attacks on LA, to the point of self-destruction (thinking of his business interests in particular), make me suspicious. I can see how it would be galling to be a clean guy overshadowed by a doper, but it's hard not to see his approach as ultimately self-serving. And what is a doper's mentality if not supremely self-serving?

Lemonds career started in 1981, with his last TdF win in 1990.
A clean rider could compete and be successful with the peloton up to the era of EPO.

EPO was introduced to a few cyclists in Italy. I use Bugno as the reference on EPO, after floundering for years Bugno won the Giro in 1990 leading from start to finish - and he went on to finish 7th in the Tour.
Italians started to become competitive in all the Classics during the early 90's so it took a while for other teams and countries to avail of EPO and for the 'Sporting Doctors' to refine its use.

I don't know if Lemond was clean - but I would be certain he never took EPO as his career suffered when it was starting to become the drug of choice.

On your point that his outspokenness may be 'self-serving" - I don't see that as his bike business has suffered because of his comments not gained from it.

Dr. Maserati, the topic about Lemond being clean is an old one. So every now and then we get new comers questioning our way of thinking. I believe it would be better if they read the old thread about Lemond's reason for decline. There is way too much information to only relate to a single post. Well, here it is one of the bests threads in this forum:

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=1860

 

[luckyboy]

Wasn't Christophe Moreau related with Festina?

here is the Link.:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christophe_Moreau

He probably means clean now

 

[Escarabajo]

He probably means clean now

I am not sure about that either. I really don't trust Moreau, but that's just my opinion. I have no proof.

 

[ak-zaaf]

Since 2006 Valverde is my favorite clean rider. No way in hell he's still doping after that sh!tstorm and he won the Vuelta in a great way.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I am not sure about that either. I really don't trust Moreau, but that's just my opinion.

You would be correct to have reservations on Moreau as according to the Le Monde paper he was requested to stop racing by the French Federation after Paris Nice last year as the AFLD had noticed his blood cortisol values were too low. (July 2008)

There were also suspicions on his performance in last years Tour when he abandoned with an injury that his team knew nothing about.

 

[Epicycle]

He probably means clean now

There were rumours about Moreau's dodgy blood values after he mysteriously disappeared from the 2008 Tour.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Since 2006 Valverde is my favorite clean rider. No way in hell he's still doping after that sh!tstorm and he won the Vuelta in a great way.

So by saying that, nobody who was doping in 06 or involved with OP is not doping now because it scared them all. Do u think AC is doping?

 

[DavidVilla7]

Favourite clean rider?? Contador For Sure!

 

[Anonymous]

Since 2006 Valverde is my favorite clean rider. .

you have nearly been responsible for this poster dying, through choking on his cup of tea...

that is hands down the funniest post of 2009, and i doubt will be bettered...

Favourite clean rider?? Contador For Sure!

oh hang on.. we have a challenger....

is it april 1st....

 

[Hugh Januss]

Favorite Doped Riders.
1. Contador
2. Gilbert
3. Sven Nys
4. Cunego
5. Sanchez
6. Neils Albert
7. Hincapie
8. Jens Voigt
9. Andy Schleck
10. Leipheimer (I'm American, I can't hate him)

Favorite Clean Riders
All the guys on my shop team, I know for sure that they're clean.

I could compile another longer list of favorites that I hope are clean but would never bet the rent on it that would be as much my overall favorites as the top list.

 

[Sprocket01]

Favourite clean riders:

1. Armstrong
2. Bernhard Kohl
3. Alberto Contador
4. Schumacher
5. Riccardo Ricco


Favourite doper riders:

1. Greg LeMond
2. Evans
3. Sastre
4. Thomas Voeckler
5. Christophe Moreau

 

[scribe]

Favourite clean riders:

1. Armstrong
2. Bernhard Kohl
3. Alberto Contador
4. Schumacher
5. Riccardo Ricco


Favourite doper riders:

1. Greg LeMond
2. Evans
3. Sastre
4. Thomas Voeckler
5. Christophe Moreau

Alright. I got a laugh out of this.

 

[ak-zaaf]

you have nearly been responsible for this poster dying, through choking on his cup of tea...

that is hands down the funniest post of 2009, and i doubt will be bettered...



oh hang on.. we have a challenger....

is it april 1st....

At least Austriacyclingfan95 took it seriously

 

[Anonymous]

At least Austriacyclingfan95 took it seriously

thats aussies for ya,, take everything to seriously, especially when you call them austrians

 

[workingclasshero]

So by saying that, nobody who was doping in 06 or involved with OP is not doping now because it scared them all. Do u think AC is doping?

that is shocking mate.

actually. a bit sad


well played ak-zaaf

 

[luckyboy]

Favorite Doped Riders.
1. Contador
2. Gilbert
3. Sven Nys
4. Cunego
5. Sanchez
6. Neils Albert
7. Hincapie
8. Jens Voigt
9. Andy Schleck
10. Leipheimer (I'm American, I can't hate him)

Favorite Clean Riders
All the guys on my shop team, I know for sure that they're clean.

I could compile another longer list of favorites that I hope are clean but would never bet the rent on it that would be as much my overall favorites as the top list.

Any evidence for Gilbert doping?
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/more_sport/cycling/article539978.ece

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Favourite clean riders - ie never had a UCI sanction for PEDs.

1. Marco Pantani
2. Alejandro ValVerde
3. Jan Ullrich - (Recreational drugs taken while out injured are hardly Performace enhancing!)
4. Stephen Roche
5. Igor Astarloa
6. Pedro Delgado
7. Johan Musseuw
8. Erik Zabel
9. Bjarne Riis
10. Laurent Fignon

 

[python]

Favourite clean riders - ie never had a UCI sanction for PEDs.

1. Marco Pantani
2. Alejandro ValVerde
3. Jan Ullrich - (Recreational drugs taken while out injured are hardly Performace enhancing!)
4. Stephen Roche
5. Igor Astarloa
6. Pedro Delgado
7. Johan Musseuw
8. Erik Zabel
9. Bjarne Riis
10. Laurent Fignon

hater!

you couldn't find a tiny spot for the pristinest of pristine lance?

fyi, delgado did test positive but the masking agent was not on the banned list yet. same exact story for indurain (it was hushed)

 

[HoustonHammer]

Lemonds career started in 1981, with his last TdF win in 1990.
A clean rider could compete and be successful with the peloton up to the era of EPO.

EPO was introduced to a few cyclists in Italy. I use Bugno as the reference on EPO, after floundering for years Bugno won the Giro in 1990 leading from start to finish - and he went on to finish 7th in the Tour.
Italians started to become competitive in all the Classics during the early 90's so it took a while for other teams and countries to avail of EPO and for the 'Sporting Doctors' to refine its use.

I don't know if Lemond was clean - but I would be certain he never took EPO as his career suffered when it was starting to become the drug of choice.

On your point that his outspokenness may be 'self-serving" - I don't see that as his bike business has suffered because of his comments not gained from it.

I'm not suggesting that GL used EPO. Someone asked what evidence there was of his doping. To my knowledge, there is none. Only a circumstantial argument. I'll accept your comment about the feasibility of clean riding until the advent of EPO, but it's a fact examples of the greats using various drugs go as far back as one may wish to look. Fignon. Moser, Thevenet, Merckx, Simpson, Anquetil, Coppi. Admittedly, none of these examples prove that ‘extra help’ was a necessary condition for success, but they suggest that some very big names might have thought so.

I agree that Greg’s comments hurt his business, but that’s what I’m saying. He has gone so far to protect his image as America’s greatest cyclist that he has badly damaged another part of his person. Self-destruction is a kind of pathology. So what are the roots of his pathology?

 

[Hugh Januss]

Any evidence for Gilbert doping?
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/more_sport/cycling/article539978.ece

Yes I read that article. In truth I got nothing more than the tried and true "look at who he has beat".

 

[Dr. Maserati]

hater!

you couldn't find a tiny spot for the pristinest of pristine lance?

fyi, delgado did test positive but the masking agent was not on the banned list yet. same exact story for indurain (it was hushed)

It was on the banned list of the IOC - but really who the hell are they?

It was not on the UCI banned list - Perdro is squeaky clean.

 

[Hugh Januss]

It was on the banned list of the IOC - but really who the hell are they?

It was not on the UCI banned list - Perdro is squeaky clean.

Ya forgot your little smiley face dohicky at the end of that statement.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Ya forgot your little smiley face dohicky at the end of that statement.

Pedro Delgado never had a UCI sanction or any other sanction against him - like all the others on my list,(Jans misdemeanor aside) therefore they are squeaky clean.

Perhaps you're a Delgado hater or you just hate excellence? ...........................................................................