Figueira Champions Classic - Casino Figueira 2026 (Feb 14)

[Cycling111]

I honestly think it's the second best Grand Tour of the decade so far. At least top 4.

I think you're overrating this Giro because it was simply better than the previous years; that wasn't difficult.

 

[Netserk]

I honestly think it's the second best Grand Tour of the decade so far. At least top 4.

tour22
tour23
vuelta24
giro25
tour24
vuelta21
tour25
giro21
tour21
vuelta23
vuelta22
giro24
giro22
giro23
vuelta25

give or take

 

[tobydawq]

I think you're overrating this Giro because it was simply better than the previous years; that wasn't difficult.

I'm well capable of assessing the quality of a Grand Tour without commiting that error, thank you.

 

[tobydawq]

tour22
tour23
vuelta24
giro25
tour24
vuelta21
tour25
giro21
tour21
vuelta23
vuelta22
giro24
giro22
giro23
vuelta25

give or take

We have to include the 2020 races due to the game we played several years ago with the 2010-19 GTs, and then the 2020 Giro would also be up there. But yeah, the top four looks a lot like I was thinking too. I would not place the 2024 Vuelta above the 2025 Giro, though.

 

[Cycling111]

Cofidis won last week

Morgado's desire to win the race was evident given he did almost the entire last part at the front

Desperation to win a race isn't the same as anxiety

Well, you haven't seen Morgado's career to say that.
He wasn't nervous even when he was a junior. He was a guy who didn't seem like a junior in many ways; his lack of nervousness was one of them.

I didn't remember the Cofidis victory (Morgado also won this seaosn ) but Cofidis need for wins is bigger.

 

[tobydawq]

Cofidis won last week

Morgado's desire to win the race was evident given he did almost the entire last part at the front

Desperation to win a race isn't the same as anxiety

He even smiled when he won!

 

[Cycling111]

I'm well capable of assessing the quality of a Grand Tour without commiting that error, thank you.

Well, you are superior to the average human in controlling that feeling, because there's nothing more human than overvaluing something after a bad experience.

It happens to me, like most people.

I didn't expect you'd take the comment the wrong way.
The Giro is in such a decline that this feeling is normal. It might not be your case, but I think most people feel that way.

And in some cases, I think the fact that the stars weren't there contributed to it.

I think this is the only sport where I see certain fans saying they don't want to see the best compete each other.
At the last Australian Open, everyone wanted that Alcaraz vs. Djokovic , instead of two lower-level players match although could have been entertaining.

 

[tobydawq]

Well, you are superior to the average human

I'll take it.

But I would like to see some arguments against the '25 Giro other than 'I'm a Roglic fan' and 'you must only be comparing it to the last three Giri which all sucked dirt'.

 

[Squire]

I'll take it.

But I would like to see some arguments against the '25 Giro other than 'I'm a Roglic fan' and 'you must only be comparing it to the last three Giri which all sucked dirt'.

I can give you some.

It had two weeks of nothing except losing the two strongest riders (and Landa ) and a good sterrato stage. No proper mountains until stage 16. Final result felt a bit unsatisfactory considering the first point despite the nice Yates fairytale. A decent GT with some great stages, but not without negatives. Bit like a Temu version of the TDF 2011. Haven't really thought about a ranking of the 2020s GTs, so I don't know where I'd rank it, but if that's the 3rd best, we must have had an awful decade for GTs so far (which actually is the case, but still).

Hopefully this extremely off-topic talk doesn't hurt now that the Figueira race is over.

 

[Cycling111]

I'll take it.

But I would like to see some arguments against the '25 Giro other than 'I'm a Roglic fan' and 'you must only be comparing it to the last three Giri which all sucked dirt'.

I mentioned previous Giros, not just Roglic's. I like Pogacar, and "in the last Giros", are included his Giro, Hindley's, and others.

You're ranking it as the second-best GT in years.

For me, all the Tour de France races in recent years have been infinitely superior.

A competition between the best in the world is always a better competition. As I said before, cycling is the only sport where some people have the opposite perception. However entertaining is a match between the 11th and 12th-ranked players in tennis ATP might be, it's not superior to a match between Alcaraz and Sinner, or Nadal and Federer.

Besides, these haven't been Froome's Tours with few attacks. They've been full of attacks, and the level of competition in them is impossible to find in a other two GT. Last Giro with a rider Visma signed in decline to be a domestique (Visma offered Jorgenson the team lead) and a Carapaz who in 2023 was looking for breakaways.

For me, the level is important, and for the fans of 99% of other sports. But also, these have been Tours with attacks, not Sky's Tour.

 

[tobydawq]

I can give you some.

It had two weeks of nothing except losing the two strongest riders (and Landa ) and a good sterrato stage. No proper mountains until stage 16. Final result felt a bit unsatisfactory considering the first point despite the nice Yates fairytale. A decent GT with some great stages, but not without negatives. Bit like a Temu version of the TDF 2011. Haven't really thought about a ranking of the 2020s GTs, so I don't know where I'd rank it, but if that's the 3rd best, we must have had an awful decade for GTs so far (which actually is the case, but still).

Hopefully this extremely off-topic talk doesn't hurt now that the Figueira race is over.

Stage 11 wasn't bad either (apart from the camerawork) - even Peyresourde's ranking shows what a crazy attack Carapaz delivered that day.

 

[Squire]

A competition between the best in the world is always a better competition. As I said before, cycling is the only sport where some people have the opposite perception. However entertaining is a match between the 11th and 12th-ranked players in tennis ATP might be, it's not superior to a match between Alcaraz and Sinner, or Nadal and Federer.

The difference is that in most other sports you're not wasting two hours (or 21 days) watching a foregone conclusion with zero suspense. It's not comparable to tennis at all. I'd take the 2020 Giro anyday over 2024, and 100/100 times I'd watch Tiller vs Berckmoes in the Brussels Cycling Classic than watch the 15th Pogacar solo of the year. I think your 'everybody wants to watch the best in the world' perception is a lot less prevalent in cycling than you seem to think.

 

[Netserk]

The difference is that in most other sports you're not wasting two hours (or 21 days) watching a foregone conclusion with zero suspense. It's not comparable to tennis at all. I'd take the 2020 Giro anyday over 2024, and 100/100 times I'd watch Tiller vs Berckmoes in the Brussels Cycling Classic than watch the 15th Pogacar solo of the year. I think your 'everybody wants to watch the best in the world' perception is a lot less prevalent in cycling than you seem to think.

yep

The race actually got better TV ratings that last year's in Italy and apparently also the best ratings in 10 years on German Eurosport, showing that the Pogacar isn't that big of a draw as cycling media wants us to believe...

 

[Salvarani]

The difference is that in most other sports you're not wasting two hours (or 21 days) watching a foregone conclusion with zero suspense. It's not comparable to tennis at all. I'd take the 2020 Giro anyday over 2024, and 100/100 times I'd watch Tiller vs Berckmoes in the Brussels Cycling Classic than watch the 15th Pogacar solo of the year. I think your 'everybody wants to watch the best in the world' perception is a lot less prevalent in cycling than you seem to think.

On this forum it is not prevalent, but I think its true for in real life.

And I think it is more prevalent than what you think.

 

[Red Rick]

There were lots of great stages in that Giro, and we had a GC battle with constant twists and turns and a huge climax. It was just a great race overall even if, sadly, Roglic was unlucky.

Our opinions on the gravel stage diverge ofcourse, but the GC battle in the mountains before the Finestre was just very lethargic.

Like the idea that 2023 Giro was godawful is entirely incompatible with the idea that the 2025 Giro was great. Yet somehow it gets treated like a one day race.

 

[Salvarani]

yep

Lazy point.

I would very much find it more plausible that Pog and any other of the current big stars has just driven up more interest in the sport and ratings, more viewers in general watching races. It is not the only sport were ratings has gone up either.

 

[Netserk]

san valentino was fantastic, especially because the gc implications were unclear

 

[Squire]

On this forum it is not prevalent, but I think its true for in real life.

And I think it is more prevalent than what you think.

Yeah, I don't really have any numbers to back up my perception other than what to me seems like common sense and some anecdotal evidence. But there sure has been more of a buzz around most big sports when there is close competition at the top. The interest in cross country skiing in Norway has fallen off a cliff in recent years, for example. But I also concur that some big stars have elevated some sports with their performances.

I just don't think that's universally the case for cycling where an event lasts for so long that the tactics and suspense becomes a big part of the attraction and watching some guy being so superior without providing a very different viewing experience compared to his competitors just isn't the most interesting thing in the world for everybody. In contrast to let's say snooker, where watching a prime O'Sullivan playing is something very out of the ordinary, or how some people loved watching prime Messi despite his team 'always' winning. Now of course I know you'd say that Pog does the same as those guys for you, but I just disagree even though I can see why some might be on your side of the fence.

 

[Red Rick]

san valentino was fantastic, especially because the gc implications were unclear

As was Monte Bondone, which fills similar criteria, even if not to the same degree.

If we consider GC implications being unclear to be very important, Crans Montana was great.

 

[Netserk]

As was Monte Bondone, which fills similar criteria, even if not to the same degree.

If we consider GC implications being unclear to be very important, Crans Montana was great.

both of those are wildly off

san valentino had massive moves in gc, and the whole race suddenly felt far more alive

alone what yates did there was better than those two stages put together

 

[tobydawq]

Yeah, I don't really have any numbers to back up my perception other than what to me seems like common sense and some anecdotal evidence. But there sure has been more of a buzz around most big sports when there is close competition at the top. The interest in cross country skiing in Norway has fallen off a cliff in recent years, for example. But I also concur that some big stars have elevated some sports with their performances.

I just don't think that's universally the case for cycling where an event lasts for so long that the tactics and suspense becomes a big part of the attraction and watching some guy being so superior without providing a very different viewing experience compared to his competitors just isn't the most interesting thing in the world for everybody. In contrast to let's say snooker, where watching a prime O'Sullivan playing is something very out of the ordinary, or how some people loved watching prime Messi despite his team 'always' winning. Now of course I know you'd say that Pog does the same as those guys for you, but I just disagree even though I can see why some might be on your side of the fence.

I only associate snooker with the thing that used to delay the cycling or tennis coverage in the '00s so whoever was really good or really bad was my favorite snooker player as it would result in shorter frames and thus less delay.

 

[Salvarani]

Yeah, I don't really have any numbers to back up my perception other than what to me seems like common sense and some anecdotal evidence. But there sure has been more of a buzz around most big sports when there is close competition at the top. The interest in cross country skiing in Norway has fallen off a cliff in recent years, for example. But I also concur that some big stars have elevated some sports with their performances.

I just don't think that's universally the case for cycling where an event lasts for so long that the tactics and suspense becomes a big part of the attraction and watching some guy being so superior without providing a very different viewing experience compared to his competitors just isn't the most interesting thing in the world for everybody. In contrast to let's say snooker, where watching a prime O'Sullivan playing is something very out of the ordinary, or how some people loved watching prime Messi despite his team 'always' winning. Now of course I know you'd say that Pog does the same as those guys for you, but I just disagree even though I can see why some might be on your side of the fence.

I didnt say Pog does the same as those guys for me or that he does anything for me at all, really.

I just think you are wrong in thinking there is a lot of people outside of this community that holds the same view on the topic as you do. I think you are mistaken with that perspective or view in the grand scheme of things.

Everyone here is a super-fan of the sport in general. Sometimes that can be a blind-spot in these types of questions.

 

[Samamba]

I didnt say Pog does the same as those guys for me or that he does anything for me at all, really.

I just think you are wrong in thinking there is a lot of people outside of this community that holds the same view on the topic as you do. I think you are mistaken with that perspective or view in the grand scheme of things.

Everyone here is a super-fan of the sport in general. Sometimes that can be a blind-spot in these types of questions.

I would say most of my friends are "casuals", not cycling freaks but they watch the bigger races. They definitely couldn't care less if Pogacar was at the start of a big race or not, they watch because of the race (like they will al watch Flanders, Roubaix, MSR, some other Belgian races, Worlds, Giro and Tour mostly) and they prefer a close race between whoever over Pogacar or Van der Poel dominating, even tho there's also the annoying "omg, just enjoy they excellence, masterclass or whatever" argument sometimes.

Now on the other hand there are definitely people who partly watch for the biggest starts, the people you don't want to watch cycling with cause the keep asking "where is Woutje" or "where is Mathieu", they don't know a lot of other riders. But again, take these stars out of the sport and they would still watch, cause they watch because of cycling, not because of the riders. Stars are made.

Of course Pogacar for example has made the sport way more popular in certain countries, like ofc Slovenia. But that's different.

 

[Squire]

I just think you are wrong in thinking there is a lot of people outside of this community that holds the same view on the topic as you do. I think you are mistaken with that perspective or view in the grand scheme of things.

Everyone here is a super-fan of the sport in general. Sometimes that can be a blind-spot in these types of questions.

Yeah, in the absence of very clear evidence in any direction, that's a fair position to have. So we'll just have different views. I just refuse to completely believe that with the time investment required for following cycling as opposed to, say, a Usain Bolt 100m, there aren't a lot of people who aren't terribly excited to watch someone that regularly makes the sport look like a grown-up racing against children without any obvious advantage other than somehow going a lot faster.

I didnt say Pog does the same as those guys for me or that he does anything for me at all, really.

Was just my assumption. I might have over-interpreted your Pog enthusiasm during races.

 

[Cycling111]

Lazy point.

I would very much find it more plausible that Pog and any other of the current big stars has just driven up more interest in the sport and ratings, more viewers in general watching races. It is not the only sport were ratings has gone up either.

In France, at least, that's the case. This year, Roubaix and Dauphiné have had their highest viewership in 5 years.

But I'm not just talking about viewership. It's difficult to compare because there are more platforms and streams than five years ago.

In other sports, what matters most is seeing the best athletes. A high-level match will always have higher level than lower-level one, however entertaining it may be. But the fact is that the Tour de France has had more attacks than Giro and Vuelta in the last years. So they can't even use that as an excuse.