Floyd questions

[Ninety5rpm]

1. I'm still confused about one point. Floyd generally admits to doping, but still claims he did not take testosterone in the 06 Tour and that those tests were wrong. So which is it? Did he really not take testosterone and the tests were botched or altered, or is he lying about that part?

2. What would have happened had Lance helped to get Floyd into the TOC this year? I bet Lance is wishing he had! After all, no help is why Floyd decided to sing, isn't it?

 

[scribe]

::holds up crucifix and tosses holy water at first post::

be damned to the clinic vile doping topic!!!

 

[MacRoadie]

1. I'm still confused about one point. Floyd generally admits to doping, but still claims he did not take testosterone in the 06 Tour and that those tests were wrong. So which is it? Did he really not take testosterone and the tests were botched or altered, or is he lying about that part?

2. What would have happened had Lance helped to get Floyd into the TOC this year? I bet Lance is wishing he had! After all, no help is why Floyd decided to sing, isn't it?

1. There is no real strong indication either way. There's a load of debate about re-infusing blood with T in it (not too plausible), confusion over an injection (T instead of mico dose EPO), etc. No idea.

2. Floyd tweeted before the new year about a "bombshell" and some kind of major impact on cycling, so i think he was already talking back in 2009

 

[Martin318is]

::holds up crucifix and tosses holy water at first post::

be damned to the clinic vile doping topic!!!

ask and ye shall receive. eventually...

 

[amp300]

1. I'm still confused about one point. Floyd generally admits to doping, but still claims he did not take testosterone in the 06 Tour and that those tests were wrong. So which is it? Did he really not take testosterone and the tests were botched or altered, or is he lying about that part?

2. What would have happened had Lance helped to get Floyd into the TOC this year? I bet Lance is wishing he had! After all, no help is why Floyd decided to sing, isn't it?

1. I believe Floyd said that he was using testosterone, however the last time he had used it was a month before the tour. He had passed tests before the positive (during the tour), and his complaint is that the same tests that showed a negative a few days before hand, now showed positive when he had not taken.

Someone else may explain that a little bit better

2. I think at some point Floyd was going to have a 'straw that broke the camel's back' moment. That just sped it up.

 

[Maxiton]

1. I'm still confused about one point. Floyd generally admits to doping, but still claims he did not take testosterone in the 06 Tour and that those tests were wrong. So which is it? Did he really not take testosterone and the tests were botched or altered, or is he lying about that part?

2. What would have happened had Lance helped to get Floyd into the TOC this year? I bet Lance is wishing he had! After all, no help is why Floyd decided to sing, isn't it?

Great questions but I imagine this will get moved to the clinic? Well, in any case:

Your second question is far more interesting to me, because it takes into account the thinking of more than just one person. It would have taken someone more empathic, or just more thoughtful, than Armstrong apparently is, to realize that he stood a real chance of avoiding much trouble if only he handled Landis the right way.

If it had been me I'd have made sure he had some employment he liked somewhere, perhaps not on my team, but somewhere. (Maybe I'd even have set him up with a trust fund.) Most of all, though, I'd have befriended him. That alone might have been enough to prevent this happening. Because in the end some acceptance within cycling's inner circle is all Landis probably needed, after losing it subsequent to his Tour.

The equilibrium had to be restored, else a breach would occur. I'm surprised Armstrong couldn't figure that one out.

As for the first question, Floyd must have faced a real dilemma once he'd decided to confess all: How do I give a full confession without making myself out to be a complete fool, liar, and perjurer? I know. I don't think it would hurt anything if I continue to insist that I didn't take that particular drug at that particular time. That will make me appear consistent and principled. Everything else I'll admit. It's my story once I tell it.

And that, I feel, is possibly a close approximation of how we ended up at, "I did it, but I still didn't do it." Only Landis knows.

 

[Epicycle]

He tested positive for testosterone 5 times during that Tour.

So how can he say he didn't use it?

- He's lying

- His soigneur Freddy added some testosterone gel to his rubdown without bothering to tell Floyd exactly what he was doing.

- There was residue testosterone in a blood bag. I think this is unlikely but some people believe it happened.

 

[forty four]

1. I'm still confused about one point. Floyd generally admits to doping, but still claims he did not take testosterone in the 06 Tour and that those tests were wrong. So which is it? Did he really not take testosterone and the tests were botched or altered, or is he lying about that part?

2. What would have happened had Lance helped to get Floyd into the TOC this year? I bet Lance is wishing he had! After all, no help is why Floyd decided to sing, isn't it?

floyds a pos he did this because he could not blackmail his way back into the sport after writing books and taking money from people for his legal proceedings. not to mention trying to blackmail greg lemond about child abuse he suffered wtf.

 

[forty four]

of course he took testosterone he just fought it so ferociously that to admit that he did would be foolish. its funny some consider the possibility that he did not lol seriously wake up.

 

[Anonymous]

1. I'm still confused about one point. Floyd generally admits to doping, but still claims he did not take testosterone in the 06 Tour and that those tests were wrong. So which is it? Did he really not take testosterone and the tests were botched or altered, or is he lying about that part?

2. What would have happened had Lance helped to get Floyd into the TOC this year? I bet Lance is wishing he had! After all, no help is why Floyd decided to sing, isn't it?

1. either there was testosterone in his blood that he topped up with, or there was a stitch up involving lance and a french lab, or someone got testosterone into him, or hes lying. Personally i dont see why he would lie having admitted blood doping during that tour it would be pointless. Personally i think lance had him stitched up. Lance knew he was doping and got a testosterone fail sorted out against him. Sounds ridiculous, but we all know how far the corruption runs. To the toppermost of the poppermost.

2. I think the ToC thing was all scam. Floyd was talking to the feds well before the ToC emails. I think that was a setup to call lances bluff a bit and see where it led. It worked, next thing lance was publishing the emails and making himself look stupid.

 

[sars1981]

I think, by whatever bizarre logic, Floyd legitimately though himself innocent of that charge. Mostly likely there was testosterone in his own banked blood.

 

[Anonymous]

Floyd wore the T-patch but can't admit it witout a possible perjury charge.

There you go.

 

[Pedaaldanser]

That's indeed the most likely of the possible explanations given in this thread.

 

[Cerberus]

1. either there was testosterone in his blood that he topped up with, or there was a stitch up involving lance and a french lab, or someone got testosterone into him, or hes lying. Personally i dont see why he would lie having admitted blood doping during that tour it would be pointless. Personally i think lance had him stitched up. Lance knew he was doping and got a testosterone fail sorted out against him. Sounds ridiculous, but we all know how far the corruption runs. To the toppermost of the poppermost.

You realize that Armstrong isn't actually the Antichrist right? He's not responsible for all evil in the world from the fall of man to the BP oil spill. Not only is there's absolutely no evidence that Armstrong set up Landis, there's no reason for him to have done it either nor is there any obvious way for him to have accomplished it.

It's far more likely that Landis is just lying in a rather backwards attempt to preserve credibility, less likely IMO, but still far more likely than some weird Armstrong conspiracy is that Landis somehow got testosterone in him without knowing by messing po his doping, having a tainted blood bag or something.

Seriously, sometimes the Armstrong hate on this forum gets ridiculous.*













*OMG, I'm turning into BPC! Look at what you done Dim, NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!

 

[HL2037]

...

2. What would have happened had Lance helped to get Floyd into the TOC this year? I bet Lance is wishing he had! After all, no help is why Floyd decided to sing, isn't it?

Maybe Floyd Landis was already working with the police at this point, and they wanted to get him under cover?

Or maybe I just watch too many american tv-series in the afternoon

 

[JPM London]

He tested positive for testosterone 5 times during that Tour.

Did he really?!?! Wow, that's a lot of times... Not into all the details of the case - was that spread out over the whole Tour or what?

 

[The Hitch]

1. either there was testosterone in his blood that he topped up with, or there was a stitch up involving lance and a french lab, or someone got testosterone into him, or hes lying. Personally i dont see why he would lie having admitted blood doping during that tour it would be pointless. Personally i think lance had him stitched up. Lance knew he was doping and got a testosterone fail sorted out against him. Sounds ridiculous, but we all know how far the corruption runs. To the toppermost of the poppermost.

2. I think the ToC thing was all scam. Floyd was talking to the feds well before the ToC emails. I think that was a setup to call lances bluff a bit and see where it led. It worked, next thing lance was publishing the emails and making himself look stupid.

Wow, just wow.
you have given all lance fans, omerta defenders, and clinic doubters, tremendous ammunition. From now on they can forever point to this post and say "those idiots in the clinic actually think Lance poisons at will samples of other riders, to get them suspended".

 

[Ninety5rpm]

Great answers, folks, thanks. I just read through all of them. Much appreciated.

Thanks for reminding me about the Lemond blackmail thing. In retrospect I should have asked a third question. What kind of person uses that kind of very personal information about someone else in order to blackmail them? I suppose the answer is a very desperate person, and given Lemond's current support of Landis' story, apparently even he understands that.

So, for the first question, I agree the KISS answer is most likely: he's lying in order to avoid admitting to perjury. However, I thought he also testified that he never doped (he certainly claimed it when not under oath). If so, he's already admitting to perjury, so why the avoidance on this one point?

But I also agree the least likely (by far) answer is that retired Lance (or someone else for that matter) intentionally did something to make him fail the test. That said, I've always been curious about the suicide of his close friend and father-in-law days after the Floyd doping story broke. Doesn't that indicate he might have been feeling responsible somehow? If so, what was his role? It reminds me of that Enron executive who shot himself soon after the Enron story broke back in 2001 or whenever.

For the second question, it has been noted that Floyd was already talking to the feds before the TOC issue came up. How do you know that? And, as far as the 2009 tweet, isn't it likely that Floyd was already trying to get into the TOC back in 2009, and getting rebuffed already? Can anyone confirm or deny? I think the point that Lance could probably have nipped this whole thing in the bud simply by befriending Floyd is outstanding. This is probably how being a poophead finally did Lance in.

 

[Anonymous]

Great answers, folks, thanks. I just read through all of them. Much appreciated.

Thanks for reminding me about the Lemond blackmail thing. In retrospect I should have asked a third question. What kind of person uses that kind of very personal information about someone else in order to blackmail them? I suppose the answer is a very desperate person, and given Lemond's current support of Landis' story, apparently even he understands that.

So, for the first question, I agree the KISS answer is most likely: he's lying in order to avoid admitting to perjury. However, I thought he also testified that he never doped (he certainly claimed it when not under oath). If so, he's already admitting to perjury, so why the avoidance on this one point?

But I also agree the least likely (by far) answer is that retired Lance (or someone else for that matter) intentionally did something to make him fail the test. That said, I've always been curious about the suicide of his close friend and father-in-law days after the Floyd doping story broke. Doesn't that indicate he might have been feeling responsible somehow? If so, what was his role? It reminds me of that Enron executive who shot himself soon after the Enron story broke back in 2001 or whenever.

For the second question, it has been noted that Floyd was already talking to the feds before the TOC issue came up. How do you know that? And, as far as the 2009 tweet, isn't it likely that Floyd was already trying to get into the TOC back in 2009, and getting rebuffed already? Can anyone confirm or deny? I think the point that Lance could probably have nipped this whole thing in the bud simply by befriending Floyd is outstanding. This is probably how being a poophead finally did Lance in.

You have to wonder how many times over the years guys have threatened to do what Floyd did. LA has made any number of enemies... I'm thinking LA and his sychophantic entourage have been dodging this bullet for some time. They probably figured that Floyd was bluffing like so many others.

They seem to have guessed wrong this time.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Great answers, folks, thanks. I just read through all of them. Much appreciated.

Thanks for reminding me about the Lemond blackmail thing. In retrospect I should have asked a third question. What kind of person uses that kind of very personal information about someone else in order to blackmail them? I suppose the answer is a very desperate person, and given Lemond's current support of Landis' story, apparently even he understands that.

So, for the first question, I agree the KISS answer is most likely: he's lying in order to avoid admitting to perjury. However, I thought he also testified that he never doped (he certainly claimed it when not under oath). If so, he's already admitting to perjury, so why the avoidance on this one point?

But I also agree the least likely (by far) answer is that retired Lance (or someone else for that matter) intentionally did something to make him fail the test. That said, I've always been curious about the suicide of his close friend and father-in-law days after the Floyd doping story broke. Doesn't that indicate he might have been feeling responsible somehow? If so, what was his role? It reminds me of that Enron executive who shot himself soon after the Enron story broke back in 2001 or whenever.

For the second question, it has been noted that Floyd was already talking to the feds before the TOC issue came up. How do you know that? And, as far as the 2009 tweet, isn't it likely that Floyd was already trying to get into the TOC back in 2009, and getting rebuffed already? Can anyone confirm or deny? I think the point that Lance could probably have nipped this whole thing in the bud simply by befriending Floyd is outstanding. This is probably how being a poophead finally did Lance in.

One point re the 'prejury' - remember Floyd was found guilty, I dont believe anyone persues people who lie for perjury when they didn't believe them and found them guilty.

On a seperate thread here somewhere- Joe Papp said that we he had not actually taken what he had been caught for, but as he was on a cocktail of PEDs in the time before basically didn't fight it.

 

[buckwheat]

One point re the 'prejury' - remember Floyd was found guilty, I dont believe anyone persues people who lie for perjury when they didn't believe them and found them guilty.

On a seperate thread here somewhere- Joe Papp said that we he had not actually taken what he had been caught for, but as he was on a cocktail of PEDs in the time before basically didn't fight it.

Anyone who pleads not guilty of a crime and subsequently is found guilty is also guilty of the concomitant crime of perjury although that is rarely if ever persued. This is per Vincent Bugliosi.

 

[Cerberus]

Anyone who pleads not guilty of a crime and subsequently is found guilty is also guilty of the concomitant crime of perjury although that is rarely if ever persued. This is per Vincent Bugliosi.

I believe that Perjury charges are also less likely to be pursued in civil cases than in criminal one and I believe Landis' case was civil. My preferred theory is that he think that he has committed so strognly to denying the testosterone than he feels he must continue to deny it to maintains some semblance of credibility.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Seriously, sometimes the Armstrong hate on this forum gets ridiculous.*


*OMG, I'm turning into BPC! Look at what you done Dim, NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!

At the risk of being labeled a fanboy I have to say I agree. Armstrong has certainly gone out of his way to be hateable, but it often goes to extremes around here.
Fair enough though as certain other forums seem to be places for unbridled worship of the Lance mythology.

 

[VeloCity]

Floyd wore the T-patch but can't admit it witout a possible perjury charge.

There you go.

I don't think that holds water - during the trial, if I'm not mistaken, Landis was asked directly if he had ever taken PEDs and answered "no". So clearly the risk of perjury is not holding him back.

 

[buckwheat]

I believe that Perjury charges are also less likely to be pursued in civil cases than in criminal one and I believe Landis' case was civil. My preferred theory is that he think that he has committed so strognly to denying the testosterone than he feels he must continue to deny it to maintains some semblance of credibility.

He had enough credibility for a Federal case and that's all that matters at this point.