For Cycling's Big Backers, Joy Ride Ends in Grief

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Race Radio said:
Reed did a good job. Money is often what maintains the myth

More to come next week, make sure you get your copy of SI and the WSJ.
+1

Will do, it'll make some good holiday reading.

Curious though, with the FDA and the FBI involved and the case seemingly orbiting around money - is the IRS and perhaps the SEC involved. i.e. I would think there should be a major audit of LAF underway and perhaps an SEC investigation involving insider knowledge and complicity, resulting in shareholder benefit? (Trek, Oakley and Nike).
 
thehog said:
Correct. I've said on here before that the concept of the FFF came from Armstrong and company. ...

What's even more strange is the UCI. Surely McQuaid knew that Armstrong associates were funding Floyd? ...

The information i have is Floyds positive was leaked because McQuaid had a habit of shutting them down between the A & B sample tests.

....
You know my history on this (Floyd, Will, TAF, db, Bill, etc.). Someone was obviously pulling the strings.

It is nice to see this come out in the open. Still think that those towards the end of that list also must have seen money coming their way.

There is still the question of the disposition of one picture of refrigerated panniers. Did Floyd have to hand that over for sake of the 'Fund?

How could McQuaid not know of the backing by the financiers?

If Weisel and co. did not make money on Tailwind directly, the profits were obviously rolling elsewhere. (likely some of the group were making money somewhere... more news to follow?)

Money talks. And if the money says support Floyd, you support Floyd. If the money says call Floyd a liar. You call Floyd a liar.

Now we have a wonderful and obvious pattern. Lie about the lying. Lie about the truth. There is some sort of consistency.

Also, anyone notice how quiet good old Fabiani has been lately?

Dave.
 

Polish

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elizab said:
Polish, this line of reasoning is beyond old and worn. It's like hedge fund guy Joe Blow losing one of his clients to Bernie Madoff. .
Old and worn? The Tiger Williams revelation is New stuff. NSDD!

And you lost me on the Bernie Madoff fantasy analogy.
Did Bernie steal from the rich and give to the poor?

Lance is a Modern Day Robin Hood lol.
Lance strongarms the rich dudes into donating to the LAF.
Steal from the rich and give to the more deserving.
Robin Hood pictures please botany bay. Troll Time

Of course, once the rich dudes get scammed they will be mad.
Mr Williams funding Floyd's crusade is nasty. YouTube Video Yikes.

I would think the WhistleBlower suit is dead in the water with these revelations.....
 

Dr. Maserati

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Polish said:
Old and worn? The Tiger Williams revelation is New stuff. NSDD!

And you lost me on the Bernie Madoff fantasy analogy.
Did Bernie steal from the rich and give to the poor?

Lance is a Modern Day Robin Hood lol.
Lance strongarms the rich dudes into donating to the LAF.
Steal from the rich and give to the more deserving.
Robin Hood pictures please botany bay. Troll Time

Of course, once the rich dudes get scammed they will be mad.
Mr Williams funding Floyd's crusade is nasty. YouTube Video Yikes.

I would think the WhistleBlower suit is dead in the water with these revelations.....
I think you meant to say "Lance is a Modern Day Robbing Hood"


 
Oct 6, 2009
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D-Queued said:
You know my history on this (Floyd, Will, TAF, db, Bill, etc.). Someone was obviously pulling the strings.

It is nice to see this come out in the open. Still think that those towards the end of that list also must have seen money coming their way.

There is still the question of the disposition of one picture of refrigerated panniers. Did Floyd have to hand that over for sake of the 'Fund?

How could McQuaid not know of the backing by the financiers?

If Weisel and co. did not make money on Tailwind directly, the profits were obviously rolling elsewhere. (likely some of the group were making money somewhere... more news to follow?)

Money talks. And if the money says support Floyd, you support Floyd. If the money says call Floyd a liar. You call Floyd a liar.

Now we have a wonderful and obvious pattern. Lie about the lying. Lie about the truth. There is some sort of consistency.

Also, anyone notice how quiet good old Fabiani has been lately?

Dave.
I'm curious as to how many of those rich businessmen were/are masters racers. I got the impression from the article that many of them were. Now that we've seen reports of so many master racers being on Joe Papp's customer list, I'm wondering if some of this group of masters racers were getting more than just team Treks to race with. I would guess a nice profit could be made off selling "stuff" to these guys, but not sure anyone would want to take such a big risk. :confused:
 
Polish said:
Old and worn? The Tiger Williams revelation is New stuff. NSDD!

And you lost me on the Bernie Madoff fantasy analogy.
Did Bernie steal from the rich and give to the poor?

Lance is a Modern Day Robin Hood lol.
Lance strongarms the rich dudes into donating to the LAF.
Steal from the rich and give to the more deserving.
Robin Hood pictures please botany bay. Troll Time

Of course, once the rich dudes get scammed they will be mad.
Mr Williams funding Floyd's crusade is nasty. YouTube Video Yikes.

I would think the WhistleBlower suit is dead in the water with these revelations.....
First of all the Robin Hood analogy would only be accurate if Mr Hood had used the money he stole to build a mansion in Sherwood Forest complete with giant swimming pool/seduction grotto.
Secondly how in the name of sweet hayzeus did you arrive at that last bit? Just wishful thinking?
 
May 23, 2010
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Race Radio said:
A few years back Bill Gifford wrote a good article in Outside on the Champions Club

http://outsideonline.com/outside/features/200606/champions-club-1.html?page=1

.
"But the takeover also put Weisel in an awkward position. He owned the largest U.S.-based pro cycling team, while also serving as a director (and major funder) of the sport's national governing body. As an article in SF Weekly noted last year, this created a potential conflict of interest, because USA Cycling is responsible for enforcing the rules, including those pertaining to doping"
that might explain a lot - thanks
 
Oct 29, 2009
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dancing on pedals said:
"But the takeover also put Weisel in an awkward position. He owned the largest U.S.-based pro cycling team, while also serving as a director (and major funder) of the sport's national governing body. As an article in SF Weekly noted last year, this created a potential conflict of interest, because USA Cycling is responsible for enforcing the rules, including those pertaining to doping"
that might explain a lot - thanks
Interesting, although USA Cycling isn't responsible for enforcing the rules when it comes to doping... That's what USADA is for. USA Cycling even says that. Just read any statement of theirs when a positive test or suspension happens. It's always along the lines of "We don't have anything to do with the anti-doping movement, it all falls under the auspices of USADA" Which is convenient when your "Champions" club is chock full of Lance lovers with big checkbooks.
 
May 23, 2010
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jmax22 said:
Interesting, although USA Cycling isn't responsible for enforcing the rules when it comes to doping... That's what USADA is for. USA Cycling even says that. Just read any statement of theirs when a positive test or suspension happens. It's always along the lines of "We don't have anything to do with the anti-doping movement, it all falls under the auspices of USADA" Which is convenient when your "Champions" club is chock full of Lance lovers with big checkbooks.
as a matter of reference do you know who governed the doping rules in the USA prior to USADA conception in October 2000?
thanks
 
Oct 29, 2009
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dancing on pedals said:
as a matter of reference do you know who governed the doping rules in the USA prior to USADA conception in October 2000?
thanks
No, who? I would guess it wasn't USA Cycling since that's around they time they were doping their junior athletes. I can't imagine anyone referring to USAC as a viable anti-doping establishment when well-documented cases like Strock-Kaiter were going on. Eithe way, the article written by Gifford that referred to USAC as the enforcer of anti-soping rules was written well after USADA was established.
 
Oct 6, 2009
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Now that the WSJ article has shown how involved these big money men were with Floyd's defense, I want to know if any of them has ever heard of this guy who hacked into LNDD. I've always thought it strange that Floyd and Arnie would have come up with the idea to hire a hacker.
 
Jun 19, 2009
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jmax22 said:
Interesting, although USA Cycling isn't responsible for enforcing the rules when it comes to doping... That's what USADA is for. USA Cycling even says that. Just read any statement of theirs when a positive test or suspension happens. It's always along the lines of "We don't have anything to do with the anti-doping movement, it all falls under the auspices of USADA" Which is convenient when your "Champions" club is chock full of Lance lovers with big checkbooks.
USA Cycling routinely tested Natz team members before sending them to events, including the Olympics. They were obligated to notify USADA of test results. History shows little evidence of "diligence" by Weisel's USAC employees.
 
One and The Same

jmax22 said:
Wow! pretty much every one of these guys mentioned in the article were members of USA Cycling's Development Foundation as well. Makes you wonder how much USAC new about everything.
Weisel runs USAC, he organized ALL of it. His minions carried out the tasks.

Now, are there enough laws broken to send Weisel back to court? Probably. Is the political will there? Doubtful. Might makes right and Weisel can pay to play.

My guess is very serious (felonies, yes plural) charges against Weisel would have to come from the grand jury.
 
Accounting

BroDeal said:
The finance stuff, apart from any doping, was very interesting.

First we have Tailwind losing money every year. It was kept afloat by friends of Wiesel. It is hard to believe that they could run a legitimate operation with fixed and known sponsorship amounts but still consistently lose money.
...


The principals can still make a killing depending on the structure of the deal. It just depends on what part of Tailwind was exposed to the outside investors. I don't know the mechanics of how one does it, but I *know* its common. It's called "Hollywood Accounting." Most of the biggest box office movies "lose" money and are still, to this day, "losses." They made a play about it, "The Producers."
 
Oct 25, 2010
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dancing on pedals said:
"But the takeover also put Weisel in an awkward position. He owned the largest U.S.-based pro cycling team, while also serving as a director (and major funder) of the sport's national governing body. As an article in SF Weekly noted last year, this created a potential conflict of interest, because USA Cycling is responsible for enforcing the rules, including those pertaining to doping"
that might explain a lot - thanks
Weisel and Och TOOK OVER USAC and installed their own conflicted interests in all key positions. It was really sad.
 
Aug 13, 2009
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DirtyWorks said:
The principals can still make a killing depending on the structure of the deal. It just depends on what part of Tailwind was exposed to the outside investors. I don't know the mechanics of how one does it, but I *know* its common. It's called "Hollywood Accounting." Most of the biggest box office movies "lose" money and are still, to this day, "losses." They made a play about it, "The Producers."
Exactly.

It is all pretty simple. Some owners are paid "Management Fees" for their "Services"....others are not.
 

Dr. Maserati

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Just as a small taste to how much it was cozy in USAC.

Lisa Voight was CEO of USAC from 1993 - was she any good at what she did? Well according to this article:
While Voight continued as the nominal CEO of USAC, Johnson was actually running it inasmuch as Weisel had financial control of the organization and Lisa Voight had negligible leadership ability -- a nice lady who never should have been put in that position. Johnson then proceeded to effectively merge USAC and USACDF though they pretended to still be separate organizations.
Voight handed in her resignation as she was due to have twins in May 2002 - what did USAC do?
They accepted ..... and immediately then hired her as Senior advisor for Olympic and international relations, at a cost of $100,000 per year.

The new CEO Gerard Bisceglia was allowed renegotiate her contract in Nov 02but Voight resigned saying, “I’m focused on taking care of my two daughters now, and I really can’t be working full time.”

But don't feel too bad for her - as her husband is Craig Griffin who at the time worked as a coach in Carmichael Training Systems.

What wonderful webs they weaved.

So, what did the UCI think of all this?
Why in late 2004 they put her on their "Ethics Commission" of course.
 
Jun 19, 2009
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DirtyWorks said:
Weisel runs USAC, he organized ALL of it. His minions carried out the tasks.

Now, are there enough laws broken to send Weisel back to court? Probably. Is the political will there? Doubtful. Might makes right and Weisel can pay to play.My guess is very serious (felonies, yes plural) charges against Weisel would have to come from the grand jury.
Imagine you are a large private or institutional investor that was sold some really hot IPO tech stocks back in the 90's via Weisel's firm. Realize that the stock was junk and you lost many Million$. Imagine you also donate generously to political campaigns and now have an opportunity to right some old wrongs....there is some seriously politically connected ill will out there that has zero to do with Lance or cycling. Stay tuned.
 
Jun 13, 2010
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Polish said:
For these high rollers - this was a "Fantasy Camp" not an investment to turn a profit.

$200,000 to $2.5mil is chump change for a billionaire.

Interesting that 70% of Floyd Fairness Donations came from these guys.
Many were oblivious to the doping it seems.
About as oblivious as TW, JO, CC, BS, BK, LAF, the UCI and Cycling USA . . . it will be interesting to see who gets thrown under the bus first.
 
Apr 7, 2009
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Does all this really mean that my yearly License fees will come back down to a reasonable $25 a year?????
 
Oct 25, 2010
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mwbyrd said:
Does all this really mean that my yearly License fees will come back down to a reasonable $25 a year?????
Not a chance. And imagine the turmoil that would happen if someone were to look at how the insurance contract (and its surcharges) is awarded.

You don't think that there are more interesting "connections" to be found? :rolleyes:
 
Apr 7, 2009
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BotanyBay said:
Not a chance. And imagine the turmoil that would happen if someone were to look at how the insurance contract (and its surcharges) is awarded.

You don't think that there are more interesting "connections" to be found? :rolleyes:
Come on BB, can't a guy dream??

Sounds like you know a lot more than you are letting on!!

If all this talk comes to fruition, and this is just cycling, how screwed up is our world, For Real?
 
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