From Racehorse to Donkey

[131313]

while riding around today, the subject of Phil Zajicek came up. Basically, some guys mentioned that he must have started racing clean his final year, because he looked like a good Cat 2. Some guys had been training with him over the winter, so it wasn't like he wasn't riding. He just wasn't very good, in relative terms.

Keeping in mind that it's all relative, and that a euro-pro "donkey" is still a racehorse compared to most people, I'm struck but the strange loss of form by quite a few guys: Levi, Menchov, Vino, Kloden, Popovych, Scarponi, Basso, just to name a few. Obviously, you can point to this or that to explain away a bad day, but everyone of these guys (and others) seems to be riding at a much different level than at other times in their careers. As far as "age", while it's a factor to an extent, performance in endurance events doesn't just fall off the cliff like this, and there are still older guys performing at the same relative level. Every single guy mentioned above was a grand tour podium finisher, which is a bit hard to even believe right now.

For me, this is a strong indicator that the drugs do actually work.

 

[zlev11]

just want to say that Popovych's loss of form is so incredibly obvious. he was awesome at the 2007 Tour, easily the best domestique in the race. then he left the Bruyneel team for Lotto and has been absolutely useless ever since. i have no idea how he still hangs around and ends up on grand tour teams.

 

[mewmewmew13]

I was thinking the same thing...I was guessing with all that has been going on that backing off the 'formula' or completely stopping might explain so many meh performances. For some it is like they are a whole different rider.

 

[131313]

just want to say that Popovych's loss of form is so incredibly obvious. he was awesome at the 2007 Tour, easily the best domestique in the race. then he left the Bruyneel team for Lotto and has been absolutely useless ever since. i have no idea how he still hangs around and ends up on grand tour teams.

From Giro podium to the gruppetto. Like every hard day in the gruppetto.

 

[Frosty]

Scarponi and Basso did the Giro, finishing 4th and 5th - without the de Gendt breakaway which people didnt respond to then they would have made 3rd and 4th (ok, coulda, woulda, shoulda). Basso won the giro in 2010, then last year had a slightly disappointing tour although he did have that big fall which must have affected his training. I seem to remember him having some falls earlier this season too but maybe he is generally on a slight downwards trajectory - his poor performances at the tour can be explained by being there for Nibali although he hadnt done much before today. He was in the break on La Toussuire stage but didnt do much. Scarponi has also come out of the Giro and people seem unable to hit top form in both nowadays (Contador did well last year but he's on a different level to the others). Then again Scarponi does seem to be at a lower level this year IMO, his Milan San Remo performance last year was pretty special. Maybe Scarponi was saving his effort for the break tomorrow.

 

[dolophonic]

There is something going on..plus guys who were so so are dominating le tour..
i like where you are going. good thought.

 

[131313]

Basso doing the Giro is definitely a factor, as it's almost impossible to do well in both. And I think one could make a case for him being a racehorse, just less of one.

The other guy I forgot to mention was Valverde: from classics to climber....back to classics... Seems his days of competing in the high mountains are long gone.

 

[Caruut]

Scarponi has ridden like he has no idea what his body is doing. Getting in lots of breaks and just getting shelled out the back on climbs.

 

[Caruut]

The other guy I forgot to mention was Valverde: from classics to climber....back to classics... Seems his days of competing in the high mountains are long gone.

He was with the VDB2 group today. Didn't he crash in the first week, too?

 

[Krebs cycle]

I hope the tour organisers put the Alpe d'Huez ITT in for the 100th anniversary next year. Exact same stage as 2004. Even better, make it the same stage number (16).

Then we can check the top 10-20 times and get a good picture of how much slower (cleaner?) the GC contenders really are.

Do it for the clinic ASO!

 

[will10]

Christopher Froome.

 

[131313]

I hope the tour organisers put the Alpe d'Huez ITT in for the 100th anniversary next year. Exact same stage as 2004. Even better, make it the same stage number (16).

Then we can check the top 10-20 times and get a good picture of how much slower (cleaner?) the GC contenders really are.

Do it for the clinic ASO!

as an experiment, and in the interest of all things science, can we let in that dude who crushed the Tour of Turkey, no control on him at all? I'd love to see what he could do!

 

[hrotha]

He was with the VDB2 group today. Didn't he crash in the first week, too?

Yep. And actually he was climbing and podiuming the Vuelta before he even gave the classics a try.

Valverde is a doper, but he's also one of those guys who have had absolutely fantastic results from the very beginning of their careers - and that includes long before turning pro.

 

[zlev11]

yeah, this Tour could've really used a CERA'd up Ricco

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Basso doing the Giro is definitely a factor, as it's almost impossible to do well in both. And I think one could make a case for him being a racehorse, just less of one.

The other guy I forgot to mention was Valverde: from classics to climber....back to classics... Seems his days of competing in the high mountains are long gone.

You never know though. He's still got a few years in him as he's only 32 or so now; and most guys who've come back recently have been better on their second year - Basso from coming 5th in GTs without ever doing anything of real note in 2009 to winning the Giro in 2010; Scarponi from being a stagehunter in 2009 to a GC contender in 2010; di Luca from completely hopeless in 2011 to pretty reasonable in 2012; Vino seems like an instant hit on his comeback, but remember he was utterly woeful in the 2009 Vuelta. Now, whether this trend be because of readjusting to their new clean capabilities or because they feel they've got the heat off their back and can go back to the juice is another question. All I'm saying is, don't write Ally Vally off completely just yet. If he's still the same this time next year, we can talk.

 

[Krebs cycle]

as an experiment, and in the interest of all things science, can we let in that dude who crushed the Tour of Turkey, no control on him at all? I'd love to see what he could do!

ha I see that Theo Bos won 2 stages. Damn, I reckon all the sprinters will be worried if he starts riding the tour. Dude has crazy speed.

 

[BotanyBay]

Keeping in mind that it's all relative, and that a euro-pro "donkey" is still a racehorse compared to most people, I'm struck but the strange loss of form by quite a few guys: Levi, Menchov, Vino, Kloden, Popovych, Scarponi, Basso, just to name a few.

I think that a lot of guys know that this year, WADA's got some really good skillz and that their usual places of refuge have tightened-up tighter than a frog's lanterne rouge. IE: Watertight. Even Phränc was caught off-guard.

 

[Ferminal]

Vino is old and under-raced (it's the last few months of his career, I doubt he wouldn't be on the Iglinskiy special). Klöden getting old but can't seem to perform on a "reduced" program. As for Menchov/Scarponi/Basso and a few others, I can only think that there's more going on in Italy than we know about.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

while riding around today, the subject of Phil Zajicek came up. Basically, some guys mentioned that he must have started racing clean his final year, because he looked like a good Cat 2. Some guys had been training with him over the winter, so it wasn't like he wasn't riding. He just wasn't very good, in relative terms.

Keeping in mind that it's all relative, and that a euro-pro "donkey" is still a racehorse compared to most people, I'm struck but the strange loss of form by quite a few guys: Levi, Menchov, Vino, Kloden, Popovych, Scarponi, Basso, just to name a few. Obviously, you can point to this or that to explain away a bad day, but everyone of these guys (and others) seems to be riding at a much different level than at other times in their careers. As far as "age", while it's a factor to an extent, performance in endurance events doesn't just fall off the cliff like this, and there are still older guys performing at the same relative level. Every single guy mentioned above was a grand tour podium finisher, which is a bit hard to even believe right now.

For me, this is a strong indicator that the drugs do actually work.

Philippe Gilbert has to be the poster boy for this. Last year was truly hilarious.

 

[VeloGirl]

I was just thinking during today's stage - "I forgot Popvych was even at the Tour". Completely different rider. Maybe the raid on his apartment scared the bejeezus out of him?

Even though it might seem boring - I really do like the new Basso since his return. It would be nice if everyone was off the juice so Basso could get back in the action.

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

Not sure when Basso became a donkey...

2009

Giro 4th
Vuelta 4th

2010

Giro 1st
Tour 31st

2011

Tour 7th

2012

Giro 5th

Scarponi's inclusion in this thread is another mystery.

 

[VeloGirl]

Not sure when Basso became a donkey...

2009

Giro 4th
Vuelta 4th

2010

Giro 1st
Tour 31st

2011

Tour 7th

2012

Giro 5th

Scarponi's inclusion in this thread is another mystery.

Maybe not full donkey, but clearly not riding like he did pre-2007.

 

[dolophonic]

Valverde is a doper, but he's also one of those guys who have had absolutely fantastic results from the very beginning of their careers - and that includes long before turning pro.

This is true.. a great racer regardless.

 

[Hitchey]

To the OP, excellent and very loaded topic.

I'm actually surprised and shocked that more isn't written about the vastly different levels of performance of many riders today as compared to a few years ago.

When I saw popo come off yesterday, I believe it was the break in stage 16, I couldn't help but recall the many other stages in the tour, giro, and various other races in which the same happened to him, other ex LA crew members, as well as others mentioned, such as menchov, schlock, Alejandro, etc. All I could think of was, sucks to have to complete without the special protection and special sauce in which they once indulged.

The racing has completely changed. Time splits are huge among "top" favorites in comparison to the past and the cast of characters have changed.

 

[BikeCentric]

For me, this is a strong indicator that the drugs do actually work.

Of course they do man! FFS! Oxygen vector doping in an endurance sport will make a huge difference - it's just the way the human body works.

But I applaud you sincerely for soldiering on in a very dirty sport regardless, when you know that some of your competitors are on the juice. You must have a really strong natural engine to keep at it and not feel like you have no chance, so congrats on that and keep making the most of it I say!