Garmin cannondale

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Re: Stage 4 debacle

Ricksterh1 said:
Think Talansky can make up 3 minutes? Probably not with this team around him. Oh well, enough venting for today. On to other things.
What 3 minutes? Did you really believe he was ever going to win this race?

About top10 in GC, being 3 minutes down is far from being out of contention. And that's the deficit to race leader. Out of GC guys, only 5 have more than 1:10 advantage over him at this point. Hesjedal lost over 5 minutes in just one Giro stage alone and still managed a top5.

And it would not surprise me if Martin or Hesjedal is gifted some time in a break-away and ends up the race in the top10 overall. In TdF2013, Talansky was 13 minutes down in GC at some point in the middle of the race, yet still managed a top10 finish in Paris.
 
May 3, 2010
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Garmin continues to ride poorly. While they were one of many who made the z-land mistake, I was least surprised by them. They rarely seem to be in the correct position in the race. They constantly let down on time trials. After the Dauphine TTT disaster I think they would have made a change to the team, but no dice. I think this started before the merge and has been amplified. Vaughters is failing right now. I have to assume they have gotten to loose.
 
May 3, 2010
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Re: Re:

Anderis said:
offbyone said:
After the Dauphine TTT disaster.
Ehmm, what? :confused:

How rather low budget team with probably not a single world's top25 time-trialist in their whole 2015 roster finishing 7th out of 21 teams is a disaster?
Nevertheless, they finished in the bottom in terms of teams contending for the overall. They just lost 1.5 minutes yesterday. I don't know how they can even consider to compete for the podium with that situation.

My understanding is that the budget is quite decent this year.
 
Re: Re:

offbyone said:
My understanding is that the budget is quite decent this year.
I think it's definetely the bottom half of current WT. Otherwise they wouldn't have gone for that many young and unproven riders in their roster.

offbyone said:
Nevertheless, they finished in the bottom in terms of teams contending for the overall.
That was little, if any surprise. And it depends on what you mean by teams contending for the overall. They beat teams who put their riders 3rd and 6th overall in this race.

offbyone said:
They just lost 1.5 minutes yesterday. I don't know how they can even consider to compete for the podium with that situation.
I don't think anyone realistically expected one of the Cannondale riders to finish on the overall podium in this year's TdF. Not even the team before the race spoke about that IIRC (unlike in previous years). Let alone the fact 1.5 minutes never puts you out of contention. In the last 3 TdF editions, 3rd rider lost from 5 to 8 minutes overall to the race winner. In the end, it matters mainly how good and consistent your climbing performances are. There rest (unless you crash heavily or at the wrong time) can cost you 1 or maybe 2 places if you're unlucky.
 
May 3, 2010
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Re: Re:

Anderis said:
offbyone said:
My understanding is that the budget is quite decent this year.
I think it's definetely the bottom half of current WT. Otherwise they wouldn't have gone for that many young and unproven riders in their roster.

offbyone said:
Nevertheless, they finished in the bottom in terms of teams contending for the overall.
That was little, if any surprise. And it depends on what you mean by teams contending for the overall. They beat teams who put their riders 3rd and 6th overall in this race.

offbyone said:
They just lost 1.5 minutes yesterday. I don't know how they can even consider to compete for the podium with that situation.
I don't think anyone realistically expected one of the Cannondale riders to finish on the overall podium in this year's TdF. Not even the team before the race spoke about that IIRC (unlike in previous years). Let alone the fact 1.5 minutes never puts you out of contention. In the last 3 TdF editions, 3rd rider lost from 5 to 8 minutes overall to the race winner. In the end, it matters mainly how good and consistent your climbing performances are. There rest (unless you crash heavily or at the wrong time) can cost you 1 or maybe 2 places if you're unlucky.
I thought last year was supposed to be the year they did the young inexperienced group and this year they were going to learn from it. Unfortunately they seem to be repeating. Maybe they will prove me wrong in the mountains, but besides being underpowered, the team looks very disorganized.

Again I thought last year Talansky was aiming for top ten and this year they hoped to do that or better.

I guess I am just disappointed as I hoped for more. They are going to need to be very active during transfer season if they want to be a bigger player next year.
 
Re: Re:

offbyone said:
I thought last year was supposed to be the year they did the young inexperienced group and this year they were going to learn from it. Unfortunately they seem to be repeating.
They can't "learn" from it. They go for it for financial reasons. And after Cannondale merge, they've got another bunch of very young riders whose contracts they needed to honour. For riders like Mohoric or Bettiol it's still to early to delier on a WT level, but they couldn't really chose not to hire them.

offbyone said:
Again I thought last year Talansky was aiming for top ten and this year they hoped to do that or better.
I think it was the other way around. Last year Talansky was on a high after winning Dauphine being really close to Contador and Froome in mountains. This year he is having much more troubled season and his form is kinda uncertain. Also the competition looks much stronger this year. Last year there was no Quintana, no Uran, Nibali looked so poorly earlier in the season that not many believed he would be in contention for the win. Pinot and Peraud were not really considered podium-capable riders, yet. Rodriguez was coming back from injury so he was not a threat for GC. Kreuziger was suspended. And TJVG seemed half a level below compared to this year. This year we have all of the main players from last year + some more.
I think it was last year where the hopes for overall podium were more realistic (and I think he could've done it if he avoided those crashes, he looked very strong on stages 2 and 5), and this year the team was talking more about top10.

offbyone said:
They are going to need to be very active during transfer season if they want to be a bigger player next year.
Again, don't count for too much on transfer market from them, they don't really seem to have the money to compete for any big names. The best they can hope for is to keep Dan Martin, whose contract is running out at the end of the year. If they lose him, I doubt they'll be able to lure anyone near as good for his place.

I think their main problem are not riders they have but that something is not working with training this year. With Talansky, Martin, Hesjedal, Slagter, Formolo, Moser, Navardauskas, Haas and Langeveld they have enough talent to perform as a mid-table WT team, which they don't for some reason this year. Also riders like Dombrowski, Van Baarle and Villella should come good soon if they're trained well within the team. And riders like Cardoso and Koren can be very good domestiques (I'm kinda impressed by Koren in this year's TdF, he is probably the only rouleur in the team not performing below expectations).
If they keep all of their best talents and sort out the training, they sould be OK with riders they have. There are maybe 3 or 4 guys in the team that should be replaced, and one of them is Ted King who is retiring at the end of the year. The rest have enough talent for WT IMO, they just need to unlock their potential (and some time to develop for riders like Mohoric or Bettiol).
Maybe they need a proper sprinter. I've read in other thread that Wouter Wippert is joining them for 2016. Not a rider who I expect to set the world on fire, but at least a rider who they can ride for in some of the flat races. Let him take 2 or 3 wins in lesser races + a stage win on a WT race like Tour Down Under and it's a step forward for the team compared to 2015.
 
Apr 24, 2013
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Well, that's very surprising. Hesjedal was at the back of the peloton at the start of the climb and he wasn't riding full gas at all and he still finish( 8'50) ahead of Martin and Talansky( 11'34). They should have given Hesjedal the leadership at the start of the Tour( he wouldn't have lost all this time bcs of the echelons, crashs...etc if he was the lone leader). Now, they have to regroup and aim for stage wins. Very disappointing.
 
Jun 17, 2015
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Re:

durtyfat said:
Well, that's very surprising. Hesjedal was at the back of the peloton at the start of the climb and he wasn't riding full gas at all and he still finish( 8'50) ahead of Martin and Talansky( 11'34). They should have given Hesjedal the leadership at the start of the Tour( he wouldn't have lost all this time bcs of the echelons, crashs...etc if he was the lone leader). Now, they have to regroup and aim for stage wins. Very disappointing.
Well, the writings on the wall, Hesjedal will probably leave. The team is a dog's breakfast. Martin and Talansky went backwards soon on the climb today. What the hell were they doing riding at the front today? Are they brilliant? Almost as bad as Moviestar setting the pace. Let Sky do it! So, Garmin Cannondale is done for this year. No support for any of the GC riders for this tour. We haven't even hit the heart of the mountain stages and they can't keep up. Too much youth, if you are experienced rider, why stay here unless you are desparate for a contract to extend your career by a year or two? Even the pro-conti teams are showing better than this group of jokers. What a disaster of a tour. But, hey, maybe this was the plan all along. Be so bad that you get TV time for being the runt of the peleton! Tour is done as I said over a week ago. Predictable, boring and only breakaways and crashes will bring any vigour or excitement into this tour. Give it to Sky and say goodbye!
 
I would hate to see Martin go to Team Sky.

He is never going to get a podium in a Grand Tour. Best he can hope for is KOM and stage wins. He can get that at a team like Garmin. If he is babysitting Froome or TJ or whoever, he won't get it.

Obviously he would be team leader for Ardennes and GdL wherever he goes, but he can do serious damage on days like today. Moving to a big team would scupper those chances.
 
Aug 4, 2011
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WTF is happening ,,,it ain't happening. Why the f%%k didn't someone get on the radio to Martin and tell him to save his energy instead of wasting it to come 2nd.
 
Re:

barmaher said:
I would hate to see Martin go to Team Sky.

He is never going to get a podium in a Grand Tour. Best he can hope for is KOM and stage wins. He can get that at a team like Garmin. If he is babysitting Froome or TJ or whoever, he won't get it.

Obviously he would be team leader for Ardennes and GdL wherever he goes, but he can do serious damage on days like today. Moving to a big team would scupper those chances.
Agreed, with the exception of the statement that "he's never going to get a podium in a Grand Tour". Peter Velits and Thomas De Gendt have Grand Tour podiums! There are fifty riders in the peloton who could get a GT podium if they get lucky in terms of field and form.
 
Re:

ray j willings said:
WTF is happening ,,,it ain't happening. Why the f%%k didn't someone get on the radio to Martin and tell him to save his energy instead of wasting it to come 2nd.
Sky is considered to be without Tactics but in this tour Garmin's Tactics are utterly incomprehensible. Getting boxed on Mur and today considering the caliber of Majka. Why waste energy unnecessarily
 
Jul 3, 2012
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Re: Re:

IndianCyclist said:
ray j willings said:
WTF is happening ,,,it ain't happening. Why the f%%k didn't someone get on the radio to Martin and tell him to save his energy instead of wasting it to come 2nd.
Sky is considered to be without Tactics but in this tour Garmin's Tactics are utterly incomprehensible. Getting boxed on Mur and today considering the caliber of Majka. Why waste energy unnecessarily
They've had Tours where that wasn't the case?
 
Anderis said:
How did Cannondale manage not to have a single rider in such a huge breakaway as today when they have nothing to protect is beyond me.
Today they looked like really making sure that they ride at the front and do not miss the breakaway... Still they almost did..!
 
Again- a breakaway of over 20 riders on a day it was very likely to make it to the finish before peloton and not a single rider from Cannondale. I have no clue what are they doing.

Maybe it's because Talansky is still quite high in GC and some teams might have wanted to chase him, Hesjedal was in the move already yesterday and Dan Martin seems to get ill (again!) and the rest would be without chance on the final climb anyway. But then why they're taking so weak team climbing-wise for the biggest race of the year...
 
Good day for Talansky today. He can get into top10 GC if he has as strong 3rd week as in 2013. Pity he was denied the stage win, but Geschke deserved it today. Can't help but feeling that Hesjedal could do more to help Andrew today. He was one of the first riders dropped and I didn't saw him doing that much pulling earlier in the break as well.
 

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