Garmin Power Meters: They're Coming

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Martin318is said:
Pretty self explanatory - if a Garmin product is coming out, wouldn't you expect the Garmin pro team to be the ones to be live testing the prototypes? For example, the first time anyone saw the Felt AR frame it was under Garmin riders in races. Likewise Campag 11spd, Shimano Di2, etc.

Either it has only been used by the team in training, or it just simply isn't close to ready yet. There is VERY little on the company website. THe only good news is that they are evidently going to make versions compatible with any pedal type.
Sure but I still don't get why it's a concern. It's not like there aren't high quality well proven and tested power measurement products available now if one was wanting to begin training with power. And at a price under what these will likely hit the market at (when/if they ever do).
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Alex Simmons/RST said:
Sure but I still don't get why it's a concern. It's not like there aren't high quality well proven and tested power measurement products available now if one was wanting to begin training with power. And at a price under what these will likely hit the market at (when/if they ever do).


Yes you are right, there are many other power meters available, but I have been waiting for these ones due to the potential benefits they will offer that are not available on any other Power Meter. I was under the impression that they would be available in the next 3mths sometime and would like to start my base training with them so that I can better keep record of how I'm progressing throughout the season. So yes I am concerned that they won't be ready before next year. But may wait all the same, but my patience is starting to falter. Better for them to bring them out ready though.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Alex Simmons/RST said:
Sure but I still don't get why it's a concern. It's not like there aren't high quality well proven and tested power measurement products available now if one was wanting to begin training with power. And at a price under what these will likely hit the market at (when/if they ever do).

That was the only bit that 'concerned' me. They seem like a good idea and would be apparently more adaptable than SRM for instance, but my read on the info we have is that they won't be here for quite some time (and the price will probably ratchet up another 40% by then too)
 
Dec 21, 2010
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Indurain said:
..... I have been waiting for these ones due to the potential benefits they will offer that are not available on any other Power Meter.

Don't hold your breath for a device that will offer features not available on any other powermeter, whilst using ANT+ protocols....

Since they use ANT+ protocol, which is defined by a plenary (voting group) of the the ANT Alliance - EVERYBODY who is a member has access (see http://www.thisisant.com/features/proven-apps) to the same protocol, and the data formats.
You CANNOT just send additional data, higher data rates, etc - it is clearly specified as to what can be done.

Devices using ANT can only differentiate on PRICE, not on features. I have studied the protocols since 2006, and had many discussions with their techincal marketing persons, The result is that I am not using it for my work-in-progress.
 
Mar 11, 2009
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The biggest benefit would be that you could move the pedals to and from a variety of bikes. For instance, I could use them on my TT bike with my carbon disc wheel as well as on my road bike. Currently if I wanted to use an SRM, I'd have to hope my bikes had the same bottom bracket and then go through the huge process of moving the cranks and sensors over. Or, in the case of Powertap, I'd need two powertap rear wheels at minimum. One for the road bike, and a disc wheel for the TT bike.
 
nightfend said:
The biggest benefit would be that you could move the pedals to and from a variety of bikes. For instance, I could use them on my TT bike with my carbon disc wheel as well as on my road bike. Currently if I wanted to use an SRM, I'd have to hope my bikes had the same bottom bracket and then go through the huge process of moving the cranks and sensors over. Or, in the case of Powertap, I'd need two powertap rear wheels at minimum. One for the road bike, and a disc wheel for the TT bike.
With modern crank systems, it takes all of 1 to 2 minutes to swap a crank over to another bike. One or two allen bolts, that's it, quick and easy: here's one guy doing it in a minute:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibycOXD-Mw0

You just need a cadence magnet in place on each frame.

You'd need a speed sensor and a computer mount for your head unit of choice on each frame (or swap them over) with a pedal based power meter anyway, so that's no different.

In fact, reckon I could swap a crank set over faster than I could pedals.
 
Martin318is said:
That was the only bit that 'concerned' me. They seem like a good idea and would be apparently more adaptable than SRM for instance, but my read on the info we have is that they won't be here for quite some time (and the price will probably ratchet up another 40% by then too)
If by adaptable, you mean moving across bikes, I've talked about that. I can see where that would be appealing if moving a crank isn't straightforward.

I wonder how they cope with pedal strikes on the ground? Longevity is another factor. One of my SRMs is nearly 8 years old and still going strong. No moving parts is a factor.
 
Mar 11, 2009
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Brim Brothers Zone Power Meter

I plan on getting a power meter in the next couple of years. If they come out with this power meter the Brim Brothers Zone Power Meter I would definitely be interested, a power meter in your cleats. They have a launch date of sometime in 2012, we shall see.
 
Jan 4, 2010
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Indurain said:
What concerns me is that I didn't see any of the Garmin team riding them at the TdF. Not a mention of them. If they are coming out in the next 3mths, wouldn't Garmin have had them ready for the Tour? I'm worried now. Waiting another year.

I would venture to guess that the Garmin team is still under a contract with SRM for this year.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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From DCRainmaker site http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2011/07/updates-on-garmin-vector-and-new-garmin.html

Wednesday, July 27, 2011

Updates on Garmin Vector and new Garmin GPS watch

Early yesterday morning I had the chance to catch-up on a conference call with the folks from Garmin. The goal of the call was to get answers on a potpourri of different topics that you have asked questions on (or just areas that I was curious about). The call centered around four major areas (listed below), plus a fifth topic area I’ll discuss later in the week.

So let’s get into it!

Garmin Vector Pedal Based Power Meter (formerly Metrigear)

Last summer/fall (September 2010) just prior to Interbike Garmin announced the acquisition of Metrigear, which was working on a pedal based power meter. This new power meter would be easily swappable between bikes, while also giving left/right power data. At the time of the acquisition announcement no specific timeline was given (in fact, they went out of their way to say nothing was decided). You may remember my detailed discussion with the founder of Metrigear Clark Foy about the shift to Garmin. About two months later during their earnings call they announced they were targeting “H2 CY2011” for availability. Since then in each successive earnings call the statement has remained the same.

When asked yesterday morning they noted that they are still on track for H2 CY2011. Garmin’s Justin McCarthy noted that the Vector team has “met all internal dates specified with flying colors”.

I asked whether or not Team Garmin-Cervelo was using Vector now, or had recently. He said that “We had the team early on do some testing for us”, however that as they’ve neared closer to release they “pulled back and kept it under wraps to avoid major leaks and having competitors grab data” on the units.

One might think this would be silly, but the competitive landscape for pedal based power meters is incredibly fierce. While four companies have publicly announced plans (Garmin, Polar, O-Synce, and Brim Brothers – though Brim brothers is technically a cleat based power meter), there are others who have not yet announced plans. There’s little doubt within power meter manufacture circles that pedal based power meters will be a significant market driver a few years from now – and all of these companies (includes ones I’ve talked with that haven’t publicly announced plans) are very protective of any information leaking out ahead of time.

I then moved onto whether or not the pedal type has been determined. I was told that while a pedal type has been selected for “the initial release”, it remains to be publicly announced.

Speaking of pedals, I asked whether or not the team was still planning on committing to update older Garmin units via firmware to support Vector when it releases. Justin noted that "we haven't come up with a finalized list as far as which devices we’ll go forward with (for Left/Right power support)”. However he did continue to confirm that all devices that support ANT+ power meters today will still be able to read consolidated power information from Garmin Vector, it just wouldn’t have Left/Right pedal data broken out separately. The reason for this is that the industry wide ANT+ power meter device profile had to be updated to include the addition of left/right power, so older units wouldn’t understand that data otherwise – but again, Vector will be broadcasting the generic power output measures that any ANT+ device can understand. I would fully expect other 3rd party companies to implement support for Garmin Vector’s Left/Right data shortly after release.

Finally, last but not least I asked what we’d see at Eurobike/Interbike as far as details on Vector goes and was told that we can “expect some sort of messaging”, but exactly what will be released information-wise is still being decided.

This seems to give a little hope that they are coming this year. I'll keep my fingers crossed.
 
May 23, 2011
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Race Radio said:

It is not quite what was expected. Instead of a sub $1000 price, which would have sold like like there is no tomorrow, it is $1500 with no head unit. Add the price of a Edge 500 or 800 to get the final price. "Designed to work with the Edge 500 and Edge 800" sounds suspiciously like "not Ant+." The Look Keo-like pedals that are shown do not have the metal plates at the cleat interface. If they are anything like the original Keos that means the pedal body will wear down from contact with the cleat.
 
Dec 21, 2010
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Hmmm, confusion reigns.....

So, Garmin are now announcing they are using the LOOK pedal system, only 10 months after LOOK & Polar announce their imminent release of their joint venture pedal-axle system.

The Garmin (Metrigear) system would be expected to use the ANT+ protocol, as Garmin bought out Dynastream, the original developer of the ANT+ PAN protocol.

Sounds like there has been some funny trades and things not working within these two systems, that we now have Garmin releasing a system that is not ANT+, and using LOOK pedals...... STRANGE bed-fellows, I must say.

Also the pricing is more in line with what was suggested for the LOOK/Polar product.

I guess more will come out in the following days/weeks, but it sounds like there has been some "cross-pollination" of the two competing systems. Maybe a deal to get around some patent infringements or similar??
 
Mar 10, 2009
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I don't think they are using the Look Pedal. Just a Look Keo compatible pedal. Plenty of them around.

MOre bummed out about the March 2012 release vs the $1500. But I will wait. Can't wait to get my hands on a set. Hope they last a long, long time.
 
Indurain said:
I don't think they are using the Look Pedal. Just a Look Keo compatible pedal. Plenty of them around.

MOre bummed out about the March 2012 release vs the $1500. But I will wait. Can't wait to get my hands on a set. Hope they last a long, long time.

Gonna have to install the pedal spindles, which are a part of the 'system'.
 
I will not be the first one on the block to own these pedals. It all just seems a bit sketchy to me. I will wait a year or two to let them get the bugs worked out. And then still might go with the Look/Polar that is already in use.
Bet Speedplay is bummin too. But it was a wise decision to go with the Look compatible system. Far more Look pedals out there.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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I will be watching closely during the Vuelta for them. I'll probably take the chance of being one of the first. Worst ways to gamble and blow $1500. I'm sure they will have a warranty on them if I can show mine doesn't work properly and it's not just low wattage numbers I'm pushing out.
 
Jan 3, 2011
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Garmin Power Meters will be worth it

C.A.N.R.S. reporting from Interbike, and we have just spoken to Garmin ( and Polar ) regarding their respective systems.

Look for an in depth, common sense article about the Garmin Vector system very soon.

Interbike coverage here
 
Jul 4, 2009
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Measuring power at the pedals (or the cleats) is just a sensible approach. I've been waiting a long time for this so I can get my first power meter, and I have to say I am pretty disappointed that I will still have to wait longer, and also that it doesn't seem to be coming out in a speedplay pedal. Hoping that will still happen eventually though!