Garmin vs HTC's young talent

[theyoungest]

They do have links to Thueringen Energy Team, don't they? Degenkolb, Gretsch, Martin, maybe I forgot some.

They do sign Thüringen's biggest talents, but I don't know if HTC actually contribute to that team in any way.

 

[janraaskalt]

They do sign Thüringen's biggest talents, but I don't know if HTC actually contribute to that team in any way.

No, I don't think they do. However, offering pro contracts to the best riders of a U23 team will attract other talents to that team as well.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

HTC just cream the best of the crop of the German amateur and Continental scene. Cavendish, for example, came from Nutrixxion-Sparkasse.

If they had a formal link to Thüringer Energie Team, no way would they have let Marcel Kittel go to Skil. He's a pretty good sprinter and an excellent time triallist, no way would they let that go.

 

[theyoungest]

HTC just cream the best of the crop of the German amateur and Continental scene. Cavendish, for example, came from Nutrixxion-Sparkasse.

If they had a formal link to Thüringer Energie Team, no way would they have let Marcel Kittel go to Skil. He's a pretty good sprinter and an excellent time triallist, no way would they let that go.

Don't you think that if they had offered Kittel a contract he'd gladly have signed for them?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Don't you think that if they had offered Kittel a contract he'd gladly have signed for them?

Of course.

But that's why I'm suggesting they don't have a formal link to TET the way Euskaltel have to Orbea, or Garmin to Chipotle Development Team. If TET was that closely linked to HTC they'd have either tried to keep him back a year or given him an HTC contract.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

If any team should have gotten this title it's Rabobank

For example, Van Garderen and Kreder, named as 2 examples here, were actually from Rabo CT. HTC+Garmin just contracted them.

How many talents have Garmin/HTC actually developed themselves? Garmin DOES have a development program. HTC just buys random youngsters who have proven themselves at the espoirs. It's not hard if they already have loads of talent and proven themselves in the U23 category.
So HTC kinda falls off for me already. They just buy good...

Lets compare the development CT teams instead.

 

[Ferminal]

If any team should have gotten this title it's Rabobank

For example, Van Garderen and Kreder, named as 2 examples here, were actually from Rabo CT. HTC+Garmin just contracted them.

How many talents have Garmin/HTC actually developed themselves? Garmin DOES have a development program. HTC just buys random youngsters who have proven themselves at the espoirs. It's not hard if they already have loads of talent and proven themselves in the U23 category.
So HTC kinda falls off for me already. They just buy good...

Lets compare the development CT teams instead.

I agree, it's the continental teams where they are really developing. The big PT teams just take their pick of who they like and then nurture their career from there. It's not going to make much of a difference for someone like Matthews whether he's at Rabo, HTC or Liquigas. Teams like Rabo CT, Thuringer and the AIS team are where the credit should be going.

 

[joy118118]

I remember Rabo saying something like "we can't offer them those wages" when HTC signed Tejay from Rabo Continental. So maybe it's just down to money.

Tejay said that year Rabo could only offer them 2 or 3 positions and hadnt given them clear answers. HTC phoned him in 2008 he refused because he was still under contract. When they asked him again in 2009, he decided to go to HTC to aviod getting no offer finally. This was also why Kreder went to Garmin.

They do sign Thüringen's biggest talents, but I don't know if HTC actually contribute to that team in any way.

years ago I read an 2006 article that T-Mobile did have some relationships with Thüringen. Tony Martin went to Thüringen with agreements with T-Mobile (at that time he was a stagiaire of Gerolsteiner). And I heard HTC asked Zabel to contact with Degenkolb and Kittel in 2009. But I have no idea why they only picked Degenkolb without Kittel.

But why Thüringen always gets the best kids in Germany? Germany also has other CT team, hasnt they? I find they get Jasha Suetterlin this year.

 

[janraaskalt]

But why Thüringen always gets the best kids in Germany? Germany also has other CT team, hasnt they? I find they get Jasha Suetterlin this year.

Haussler didn't ride for TET, neither did Ciolek or Klemme or Nerz. Suetterlin is a guy to follow in the next years, for sure!

 

[joy118118]

Haussler didn't ride for TET, neither did Ciolek or Klemme or Nerz. Suetterlin is a guy to follow in the next years, for sure!

TET began in 2006. When they were still Team Köstritzer, they brought up riders like Greipel and Sinkewitz and some others that went to T-Mobile. Surely not all the best kids in Germany, but there is no doubt that they keeps produce decent young guns.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

25 or Under:

Bobridge
Kreder
Martin
Meyer
Meyer
Navardauskas
Peterson
Stetina
Talansky
Vanmarcke

vs

Brammeier
Cavendish
Degenkolb
Fairly
Ghyselinck
Goss
Gretsch
Howard
Martin
Smukulis
Van Garderen

Martin, Cav and Brammeier all turning 26 soon though.

Pretty tight, HTC obviously if you count Cav and Martin. Still, Goss and Martin alone have better records than the other team combined.

They both more or less have an equally amount of potentially good U24s, bit hard to judge them at this stage and say any one of them will be better than the other.

OK, I can see 5 riders in HTC's list I would take over any in Garmin's.

 

[janraaskalt]

TET began in 2006. When they were still Team Köstritzer, they brought up riders like Greipel and Sinkewitz and some others that went to T-Mobile.

Okay, thanks, didn't remember that.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Reputation helps, and they are more established and with a better budget than the likes of LKT Team Brandenburg and Heizomat-Mapei. Nutrixxion-Sparkasse are the other decent sized German continental team, but they also have a lot of older riders; they did bring Cavendish through the ranks though.

 

[La Pandera]

I'm sure it's clear that HTC is probably the best team that knows how to spot great young talent and they've shown that with Teejay, Tony Martin, Ciolek, Cavendish etc.

Garmin is also another team that looks out for young talent, signing Ramunas and Talansky for this season. Garmin sometimes seem to give their young guys so much hype and they usually don't deliver in my opinion. The only one would be Cam Meyer who won the TDU this year. And Dan Martin as well.
For this year's Paris-Nice, I was looking to see who would place higher on GC: Talansky or Teejay. Teejay is a bit over a minute back if I'm not mistaken, while Andrew is over 20. Don't get me wrong, Andrew did do good at Mediteraneen.

What's your take on this?

You're forgetting Martin Maaskant, who although he seems to have regressed some still has shown the potential in the cobbled classics to be a fine talent.
Developing talent should also apply to the talent of riders that had yet to meet their potential. With Haussler, Wiggins, Hesjedal and Vande Velde you had riders who reached their highest heights riding under Garmin. The primary disappointment in the Garmin stable is of course Danielson but he's been that way for every team he's ridden.

 

[roundabout]

One minor correction, it's Haussler's first year with Garmin and it's not a given that he can repeat his 2009.