GC Power Ranking

[Berniece]

Putting Evenepoel ahead of Roglic seems to require putting am extreme amount of emphasis on 1 week of racing in the past 2 years. Also completely ignores Roglic' track record in doing 2 GTs a year and being podium level whether he be sick, injured or hungover.

It's about the current state, right? Not about their whole career. There is no indication whatsoever that Roglic would've finished ahead of Evenepoel in the TDF. In my opinion they are both at the same level, one sometimes better than the other, but I'm not sure if that will be the case next year.

 

[CyclistAbi]

One time Rogla struggled a bit was when Jonas decided to close the gap to Pogi. Here Rogla has some work left to do for further GT editions, said that Jonas paid for that effort after. Rogla, among others, should be able to capitalize on it deeper into the race. He just didn't get the chance this year. I am sure that plenty of opportunity more to come.

 

[bNator]

In your mind maybe.

Not only in the mind of @tobydawq but also in the mind of the man himslef (Roglic).

Here is the quote of Riglic's coach Marc Lambaerts: "There are two other goals in his head. First of all, of course, trying to win the Tour, even though he increasingly realises it will probably never happen, but that doesn't mean that he won't keep fighting for it in the next two years". And there's a second quote from Roglic himself a couple of weeks ago where he said he probably could not follow Pogacar & Vingegaard.

So the guy seems to accept the fact he's not quite there with those two when it comes to GC power ranking but might still make it stick if the circumstances favour him (and will keep trying).

 

[CyclistAbi]

Not only in the mind of @tobydawq but also in the mind of the man himslef (Roglic).

We all know on how Roglič addresses such things in interviews, so obviously Roglič really believes that. And whenever racing against Pogi or Jonas, he'll just go for the KOM. For sure.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

We all know on how Roglič addresses such things in interviews, so obviously Roglič really believes that. And whenever racing against Pogi or Jonas, he'll just go for the KOM. For sure.

Yes, This is exactly what bNator said.

But honestly, did you miss the part in which Pogacar won 12 GT Stages and the Giro-Tour double this year. Even if we are very generous, do you believe Roglic to be able to achieve the same? WIth the same time gaps?

And before you say "But Vingos preperation" the guy was pushing his best ever numbres (as everybody apparently, but that's a different story).

 

[SHAD0W93]

Mas raced against them all this year and he explained nicely on how things currently stand.

Mas finished an hour and 17 mins behind Pogacar, he has no clue how Pogacar raced compared to Roglic who he was 3 mins behind. Heck, Pogacar’s domestiques put more time into Mas in a week than Roglic did in 3.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Guys, one myth at a time, shall we? Wheel sucks, doesn't' attack ... Is Rogla still old? Anyway, this bubble some of you are living in here will eventually burst too.

This is on how it must have been at Visma at the end, on and on about Jonas and Pogi. And now we see that it's still about Rogla too. Rest assured.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

Mas finished an hour and 17 mins behind Pogacar, he has no clue how Pogacar raced compared to Roglic who he was 3 mins behind. Heck, Pogacar’s domestiques put more time into Mas in a week than Roglic did in 3.

He clearly wasn't in any form to seriously compete to be fair, even though I can't say that wasn't disappointing.
I won't speculate where an in form Mas would have ended up in the Tour GC, but I'd give him a shot for Top 10 clearly.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

Guys, one myth at a time, shall we? Wheel sucks, doesn't' attack ... Is Rogla still old? Anyway, this bubble some of you are living in here will eventually burst too.

This is on how it must have been at Visma at the end, on and on about Jonas and Pogi. And now we see that it's still about Rogla too. Rest assured.

Which new myths was added though? And which one was addressed?
And btw.: that he is old for a GC contender is not a myth, it's just a brute fact of life. Doesn't mean he can't be very strong though, as the Vuelta has shown. Still I don't see how that closes the gap in your mind to Pogacar and Vingegaard.

 

[SHAD0W93]

He clearly wasn't in any form to seriously compete to be fair, even though I can't say that wasn't disappointing.
I won't speculate where an in form Mas would have ended up in the Tour GC, but I'd give him a shot for Top 10 clearly.

Exactly, Mas wasn’t anywhere close so how can he speak of the shape of the others. Only time he saw Pogacar was a speeding yellow bullet going past him.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

GT GC:

1. Roglič (5 GT)
2. Pogačar (3 GT)
3. Vingegaard (2 GT)
4. Evenepoel (1 GT)

People saying things like i will put Evenepoel above Roglič and both at the end of the list, well, lets just burst that bubble, shall we.

P.S. For week long stage racing i feel it's somewhat the same.

1. Froome (7 GT)
2. Roglic (5 GT)
3. Pogacar (4 GT)
4. Nairo (2 GT)
5. BERNAL (2 GT)
6. Vignegard (2 GT)
7. Carapax (1 GT)
8. Hindley (1 GT)
9. Yates (1 GT)
10. Thomas ( 1 GT)
11. Tao geoghen hard (1 GT)
12. Kuss (1 GT)
13. Evenepool ( 1 GT)

 

[CyclistAbi]

Exactly, what would Mas know, armchair cyclists know much better. Now that we finally put this one to rest, lets tackle the remaining myth then, Rogla won't beat Pogi and Jonas in future GTs. Due to them goats being stronger to the bull. That is the narrative of this thread.

Lets see if it will hold or burst.

 

[Roku]

Don't be so harsh on CyclistAbi, they got lost in translation and thought the discussion was about providing a list of posters' favourites regarding all time GC contenders

Here's my GC Power Ranking based on CyclistAbi criteria:

1. Denis Menchov (Never cheered anyone so hard, being Giro 09 the best memory)
2. Pavel Tonkov (First GT favourite)
3. Tadej Pogacar (Most liked GT rider since Menchov retired)

 

[CyclistAbi]

Yeah, this is how last year or so at Visma must have been like. All so sure in themself and their ramblings about the numbers, meantime Rogla powah still looming. And i am sure that Denis Menchov and Pavel Tonkov would beat Pogi and Jonas in the past and future GTs, being in Rogličes position.

Guys, when rationalizing like that, be aware, that just proves my point. Anyway. GC racing is now over for this season, results vice and on what we seen at the road during it, things are rather clear. As for the future lets wait and see. Some of you are rather full of it, on how Rogla won't beat Pogi and Jonas in GT racing any more.

Obviously, such a no brainier, after all he is older and that is about it.

 

[Berniece]

Which new myths was added though? And which one was addressed?
And btw.: that he is old for a GC contender is not a myth, it's just a brute fact of life. Doesn't mean he can't be very strong though, as the Vuelta has shown. Still I don't see how that closes the gap in your mind to Pogacar and Vingegaard.

In his mind it's Pogacar and Vingegaard that need to close the gap to Roglic.

 

[CyclistAbi]

In his mind it's Pogacar and Vingegaard that need to close the gap to Roglic.

Too young.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

Yeah, this is how last year or so at Visma must have been like. All so sure in themself and their ramblings about the numbers, meantime Rogla powah still looming. And i am sure that Denis Menchov and Pavel Tonkov would beat Pogi and Jonas in the past and future GTs, being in Rogličes position.

Guys, when rationalizing like that, be aware, that just proves my point. Anyway. GC racing is now over for this season, results vice and on what we seen at the road during it, things are rather clear. As for the future lets wait and see. Some of you are rather full of it, on how Rogla won't beat Pogi and Jonas in GT racing any more.

Obviously, such a no brainier, after all he is older and that is about it.

But what is your point? That Rogla is as strong as Pogi and Skeletor? Okay. But how does us saying this isn't so, prove your point exactly? If that is your point. Last time Roglic beat Pogacar in a GT was 5 years ago, and the two times he finisehd a GT together with Vingo, he beat him 4 years ago, and than was beaten last year. So you may say "all the worse for the facts" that they don't comply with your reality, but that would indeed be a bad point to make.

Also just checked and was a bit shocked (even though I could've know) that he only managed to finish two GTs with Pogacar that he entered as well. In which he won. 2019, half a century ago it feels. So not many data points, I grant you that.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@Rechtschreibfehler

I was replying to a claim on how we are all supposedly free to make up our own fantasy and believe that is a fact. I just wanted to point out there are different levels of that involved and some fantasies are much closer to the truth then others. I do agree that it's a privilege to live in a world you can get away with it, this shouldn't be taken for granted.

Anyway, yeah, we all know what happened, historically speaking, that is after Tour 2020 Rogla either did not start or did not finish the Tour. A lot of you basing your opinions on this fact alone. Like that being an indicator Rogla is a level below Pogi and Jonas in GT racing and can't beat them. As for Jonas beating Rogla at the Vuelta 2023, so did Sepp, so did Sepp.

 

[Froome]

GT GC:

1. Roglič (5 GT)
2. Pogačar (3 GT)
3. Vingegaard (2 GT)
4. Evenepoel (1 GT)

People saying things like i will put Evenepoel above Roglič and both at the end of the list, well, lets just burst that bubble, shall we.

P.S. For week long stage racing i feel it's somewhat the same.

1. Froome(7 GT)

The GOAT of week long stage racing.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@Froome

Some of you just don't understand on what this thread is about. Mas never said during this season only Primož (Roglič), Tadej (Pogačar) and Jonas (Vingegaard) can keep up with Froome. But yeah, what does Mas know anyway.

 

[tobydawq]

In your mind maybe.

Do you have a deep insight into w/kg estimations?

 

[CyclistAbi]

Do you have a deep insight in w/kg estimations?

Of somebody else's mind?

 

[tobydawq]

Across all the times that this thread has popped up down the years, Abi has been fed enough to reach morbid obesity...

The thread is 13 months old

 

[Ilmaestro99]

It's good that we have enric Mas's GC power ranking

From what I understand its

1. Pogacar
1. Vignegard
1. Roglic

Perhaps we can get the rest?

 

[Krzysztof_O]

In your mind maybe.

Halfway through this years Tour Rogla was already over 2 minutes down Pogacar, even before the latter hit the best level ever. It takes wild imagination to think Rogla would have overtaken Pogi in the GC but yours is fitting, I never doubted it!