Gearing Question

[elapid]

I have the opportunity to ride the Bicycle Tour of Colorado and maybe the French Alps this year. I have been riding compact for the past two years (50-34/11-23), but my coach wants me to convert to standard (53-39/12-25). In regards to climbing, if I changed out the rear cassette with standard cranks to a 12-27, then the gear ratio of 39-27 is superior to 34-23. However, this requires more money to change cassettes which I really don't want to part with at this stage. So comparing the basic compact and standard options, the 34-23 has a better gear ratio for climbing than the 39-25, and the 50-11 is about 4% taller than 53-12. If the top and bottom ends on the compact is superior, then why is my coach recommending standard gearing? Is there an advantage of standard over compact other than gear ratios that I am missing?

 

[James Huang]

If the top and bottom ends on the compact is superior, then why is my coach recommending standard gearing? Is there an advantage of standard over compact other than gear ratios that I am missing?

Nope, your reasoning is pretty much dead on. Ask your coach for clarification behind the suggestion for standard gearing.

 

[Pietro]

I have the opportunity to ride the Bicycle Tour of Colorado and maybe the French Alps this year. I have been riding compact for the past two years (50-34/11-23), but my coach wants me to convert to standard (53-39/12-25). In regards to climbing, if I changed out the rear cassette with standard cranks to a 12-27, then the gear ratio of 39-27 is superior to 34-23. However, this requires more money to change cassettes which I really don't want to part with at this stage. So comparing the basic compact and standard options, the 34-23 has a better gear ratio for climbing than the 39-25, and the 50-11 is about 4% taller than 53-12. If the top and bottom ends on the compact is superior, then why is my coach recommending standard gearing? Is there an advantage of standard over compact other than gear ratios that I am missing?

Gearing is personal. Rding in a certain gear on a compact setup and a rear cog is the same as another ring/cog combo on standard size crank, gear ratio wise. A compact and 11-25 is the best of both worlds, IMO. Higher high gear and lower low gear than 53/39 and 12-27

 

[nightfend]

Actually compact gearing shouldn't be any disadvantage at all when riding in Colorado or the Alps. If anything, you can throw a 11-25 on your compact drivetrain and have a bailout gear in case your legs feel crappy on a particular climb. Nothing worse than hitting an 18% slope with sore legs and having to power up it with a 40 cadence.

 

[Notso Swift]

That happens to me on 8% slopes!

 

[dekindy]

Your reasoning for the comparison is sound. Why wouldn't it be, it is just simple gear ratio analysis. However if he is a coach, there must be more to this story.

How old are you? How much do you weigh? What is your fitness level? Do you ride hills and mountains now and are used to that?

I would think the average rider considering the type of events that you are would at the minimum want a 12/27 cassette and consider a triple. Carmichael Training Systems recommends a compact crank and/or a 12/27 cassette for their climbing camps.

 

[elapid]

I have been training with CTS for 18 months. I am 40 years old, 85 kg (5-10 kg overweight), and I think the main reason he has recommended the standard cranks is my fitness level and power output has improved markedly since starting coaching. I ride the local hills, but they are a series of hills of < 1.5 km each at no more than 15%. One loop of these hills is just less than 1000 m of climbing.

 

[elapid]

I should also put this into context as the opportunity to do some big climbs is a side issue. I have a road and 'cross bike, both running compact. I am in the process of paying off another road bike for which I have not yet chosen between standard and compact. However, if I chose standard then I will also want to change my current road bike to standard as well (no big deal as I have standard cranks kicking around in the garage). For my local riding, especially the hills, my coach wants me to push a harder gear with my improved fitness (hence the 39-25 on the standard rather than the 34-23). I am fine with this because the difference in the top end is not huge. But I keep on coming back to the compact having a wider range and I can just push 34-21 or lower if he wants me to push a harder gear on the hills.

 

[dekindy]

This sounds like two separate issues.

Issue #1 is that your coach is recommending gearing for your normal riding in your home environment. Since he is a CTS coach and you have been training with him for 18 months, there is no doubt that you should take his advice.

Issue #2 is reconciling this advice with your climbing trips and not wanting to spend all the money to have standard and compact gearing to achieve both objectives. Only you can answer this.

My observation, and I don't have the time to research the difference or know how significant it is, is that your cadence will be higher with a compact 34 versus a standard 39. That might be the issue you want to discuss further with him to better understand the rational for his recommendation.

I hope this helps. My curiousity is peaked. I would like to know the answer if you don't mind taking the time to share it with us after you discuss it further with your coach.

 

[elapid]

Thanks for all your replies and advice. Coach assumed I would be running 12-25 with the compact and hence the lower gain ratios/gear inches. As I plan to be running 11-23, he agreed that this compact combination would be better than 53-39 with 12-25. One apparent advantage of the standard setup is that the big ring allows greater torque to be generated for sprinters compared to compact. I am not a sprinter though!

 

[nightfend]

You definitely need nothing more than a 39 front ring and a 11x23 rear cassette to ride pretty much any road in Colorado. In fact, before the invention of the "pie platter" most of us in the 90's that used to ride in the Southwest would ride an 11x21 and on occasion throw on the big 11x23 for the really long climbs.

Now a days, we have it easy with all these 12x25/12x27 cassettes and compact gearing! Takes the fun out of the climbs.

 

[Pietro]

You definitely need nothing more than a 39 front ring and a 11x23 rear cassette to ride pretty much any road in Colorado. In fact, before the invention of the "pie platter" most of us in the 90's that used to ride in the Southwest would ride an 11x21 and on occasion throw on the big 11x23 for the really long climbs.

Now a days, we have it easy with all these 12x25/12x27 cassettes and compact gearing! Takes the fun out of the climbs.

Yer in Maryland, not Colorado. One thing that Colorado doesn't have is oxygen at the same percentage as Maryland. 39/23-as in you "definitely need nothing more"-righto. Some hills around here are above that magic 10% in steepness an a few push 20%. I guess if you are a pro, you can handle 39/23 and can actually use a 53/11 but if you are a mere mortal, 12-25/27-13/29 is 'nice' and few can push a 53/13 on the flats let alone a 53/11.

 

[tifosa]

Yer in Maryland, not Colorado. One thing that Colorado doesn't have is oxygen at the same percentage as Maryland.

Don't forget to do some training at altitude. It will make for a more comfortable, successful ride.

 

[nightfend]

Yer in Maryland, not Colorado. One thing that Colorado doesn't have is oxygen at the same percentage as Maryland. 39/23-as in you "definitely need nothing more"-righto. Some hills around here are above that magic 10% in steepness an a few push 20%. I guess if you are a pro, you can handle 39/23 and can actually use a 53/11 but if you are a mere mortal, 12-25/27-13/29 is 'nice' and few can push a 53/13 on the flats let alone a 53/11.

True, I live in Maryland now, but I used to race in Colorado and New Mexico. In the mid to late 90's, there was no cassette bigger than 12x23. So that's what you used.

 

[Pietro]

True, I live in Maryland now, but I used to race in Colorado and New Mexico. In the mid to late 90's, there was no cassette bigger than 12x23. So that's what you used.

Don't want to beat this dead horse but 8s 13-26 has been around since the early 90s. for Campagnolo and shimano both.

 

[nightfend]

Don't want to beat this dead horse but 8s 13-26 has been around since the early 90s. for Campagnolo and shimano both.

You are probably right that the option was available, but as a racer, you really never used more than a 23 back then. Just didn't happen. I don't think it was until the push for 10-speed that 25 and 28 tooth sprockets became the norm on people's bikes.

In any case, the U.S. does have some steep roads, but most state roads have a maximum gradient they can be built to, so you generally do not see the steep continual roads that are prevalent in Europe.

Having said all this, if you need the gearing, now a days, there's no reason not to choose it. There is a plethora of options now including compact drivetrains and huge 27 and 28-tooth cassettes.

 

[The GCW]

The ratio.

I ride the Colorado High country.

Gotta love climbing.

Take the 39/53

& 12/25 and switch the 12 to an 11.

You will like the 11 going down the mountains. I don't care for winding it out and don't want to coast all the time. And You can answer a move.

I don't think that's hard to do but if You have trouble, contact Superfly Cycles in Boulder.