Gee I think it's awful that a DOPER won LBL

[Beech Mtn]

Nothing Vino does is going to change anybody's opinion of him. If he wins, some will say he's doping again. If he had ridden poorly, then people would say all his talent came out of a bottle/blood bag and wasn't natural.

I didn't think his open letter to the press was that bad. At least he didn't stand on the podium yesterday and say this on live TV:

But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the skeptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. But this is one hell of a race. This is a great sporting event and you should stand around and believe it. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of Liege-Bastogne-Leige for as long as I live. And there are no secrets - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it.

Whatever else Vino may be, he's not a petulant a$$hole

Compare the above to Vino's actual words from the CN Story:

The media comments contrast with the hundreds of congratulatory messages from fans that I keep getting on my website and my Facebook page. I don't understand this discrepancy. As if I had to be forbidden of success on my bike to leave everyone with a clear conscience.

"In which sport are we allowed to be at the start of a competition without the right to win? I love cycling, it gave me everything and I want to give it good things in return.

<snip>

"This is my personal vision of this problem, everybody is not obliged to share it.

The man did his time, and the man's not a d!ck. He animates every race he's in. Therefore he gets a second chance in my book.

 

[ChrisE]

LA's speech was on the podium after his 7th win, and done by a rider that has never been sanctioned due to an AAF his entire career. He was also playing to the gullible casual fan in the US, which furthers his popularity and thus income.

Vino's statement is a totally different animal. Believe me, if the roles were reversed in the least I would expect Vino to say the same things LA did on that podium, or to strenuously deny doping every chance he got.

 

[ChrisE]

I'll probably change it tbh. I think it'll probably encourage people to see me as a fanboy Hmm..

Now that is an avator you can be proud of.

In honor of you, I will bring back a blast from the past with mine.

 

[blaxland]

I have to say I think Gilbert is clean. At least I hope he is. Certainly the rest of the top 10 aren't (not sure about Kolobnev).

If Gilbert is Clean then so is Evans....but not everybody on this wesite(forum) will agree with this??????????Heck we might aswell say Vino is Clean..........

 

[luckyboy]

Now that is an avator you can be proud of.

In honor of you, I will bring back a blast from the past with mine.

Haha, and Gilbert/Chavanel weren't?

If Gilbert is Clean then so is Evans....but not everybody on this wesite(forum) will agree with this??????????Heck we might aswell say Vino is Clean..........

Yeah, that was pretty embarrassing. I'm not going to comment on whether riders I like are clean anymore. Unless they're on Bbox, who I firmly believe are a clean team. The thing with Evans is that he is contending for the victory in three-week tours, which need great recovery as well as everything else, so I just don't see it. Anyway, that is the last I will say concerning this matter

 

[blaxland]

...so the past is the past argument works when you're talking about the finishes of riders you like, but when it comes to Vino???

...and to extrapolate from the question asked at the end...

There are two logical ways to look at things at present.

1. The Passport program is working, and only those who are doping are caught.

2. The Passport program is failing and only those who can't figure out how to beat the tests are caught.

Either way, for now, Vino is as clean as Gilbert, Cancellara, Evans et al, and to single him while venerating riders like Gilbert, Evans and (insert your favorite rider who you're just certain has never doped's name here) is ridiculous.

+100000000000000 agree.........High Cotton.............some of these post are just hilarious..

 

[Ferminal]

Agreed.

But please turn your Avatar the other way around Luckyboy. I haven't been drinking, but it sure feels like it!

It was making me sick all day

 

[luckyboy]

Does this one make you feel better?

 

[I Watch Cycling In July]

Im not suggesting this is the current UCI position as it relates to 1996, but 'BikeCentrics' position has merit.

Here are Hein Verbruggens comments when he was President of the UCI.

[rant]

I wasn't arguing with the idea that some very senior figures at the UCI see the bio passport as a way to keep doping within limits. I'm quite aware of Verbruggens comments.

The point is that Vino's win indicates the UCI is ok with doping within limits ONLY IF you assume that is the reason they haven't taken action. IOW the "proof" that the UCI isn't interested in taking action relies on the assumption that the UCI isn't interested in taking action. It's a circular argument and therefore doesn't provide any new information.

We see a lot these circular arguments in the clinic. The classic is "A rider wins a bike race.....OMG they must be doped because how else did they win against the other dopers?....so know we know that rider doped.....which proves they're still all at it...... "

For anyone who feels the urge to come back and explain evidence of doping or of nefarious intent on the part of the UCI....save it! I recognize that doping is still a big part of cycling and the UCI hasn't exactly done a great job of dealing with it. All I'm saying is what is frequently touted a proof of the above, IS NOT PROOF AT ALL.

[rant]

 

[Cervelo77]

There is a very simple solution to dealing with repeat dopers. Increase their minimum bike weight by 2 pounds after each infraction permanently. Allow them to come back, but with a permanent handicap. This serves two purposes:
1) A deterrent to doping in the first place, since a non-doped rider on such a bike will suffer greatly on hills and mountains.
2) A boat anchor if they continue to use the juice.

Do it UCI.

I can't say I was really pleased to see Vino win L-B-L, but man, that Contador-Vino 1-2 is hard to beat. Vino is saying all the right things about supporting Contador, but last time I checked Astana is still in Kazakhstan and Vinokourov is not a Spanish name.

Question (and I realize this is probably covered elsewhere), why is Bbox regarded as dope free?

 

[knewcleardaze]

There is a very simple solution to dealing with repeat dopers. Increase their minimum bike weight by 2 pounds after each infraction permanently. Allow them to come back, but with a permanent handicap. This serves two purposes:
1) A deterrent to doping in the first place, since a non-doped rider on such a bike will suffer greatly on hills and mountains.
2) A boat anchor if they continue to use the juice.

Do it UCI.

I can't say I was really pleased to see Vino win L-B-L, but man, that Contador-Vino 1-2 is hard to beat. Vino is saying all the right things about supporting Contador, but last time I checked Astana is still in Kazakhstan and Vinokourov is not a Spanish name.

Question (and I realize this is probably covered elsewhere), why is Bbox regarded as dope free?

I'm thinking it's a criminal offense to use doping products in France, with stiff penalties. Though I could be mistaken.

 

[pedaling squares]

I agree with Vino when he says it is unfair for his victories to be singled out as evidence of doping. I don't want to be the only and too easy target for all the ills of cycling. There are plenty of reasons to be suspicious of riders' performances, and the Krazy Khazak is getting an undue share of the heat. Probably in large part because he trains in Tenerife and he doesn't say all the right contrite things about doping. But there is a bias there beyond what Armstrong, Valverde, and others have to endure from the press and that isn't right.

 

[rxgqgxnyfz]

Probably in large part because he trains in Tenerife.

Lots of folks trains there.

Not only him, but almost entire team of Astana (not just kazakhs, italians, spanish all alike). And it's not just Astana they met Menchov and i think Katyusha, Liquigas and a few other guys from other teams there.

And look who we have here, training in Tenerife last year?

http://translate.google.com/transla....com/kanary-tenerife-uzhe-vidat-i-nashix.html

Entire core of Radioshack including you-know-who.

Now where are doubts going to their directions i ask you?
________
Collier motors

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

EXACTLY. Congratulations on learning to read.

That is exactly what I thought right from the start, which you should have been able to deduct from my first question to you, but instead you were deliberately obtuse. So apparently, you agree that the UCI should not ban a rider without evidence of doping, but still believe that them failing to do so is a sign of them condoning doping. Nice logic there.

 

[buckwheat]

Lots of folks trains there.

Not only him, but almost entire team of Astana (not just kazakhs, italians, spanish all alike). And it's not just Astana they met Menchov and i think Katyusha, Liquigas and a few other guys from other teams there.

And look who we have here, training in Tenerife last year?

http://translate.google.com/transla....com/kanary-tenerife-uzhe-vidat-i-nashix.html

Entire core of Radioshack including you-know-who.

Now where are doubts going to their directions i ask you?

Don't worry, the shack has already been convicted here.

BTW, by the looks of your name here, you must be from one of the "stans."

Welcome Vino!

 

[rxgqgxnyfz]

BTW, by the looks of your name here, you must be from one of the "stans."

The name is just auto-generated by mail-service, so sorry to burst your conspiracy-happy bubble
________
Prilosec attorneys

 

[buckwheat]

The name is just auto-generated by mail-service, so sorry to burst your conspiracy-happy bubble

Why do people have to go around bursting the bubble?

 

[Mongol_Waaijer]

Lots of folks trains there.

Not only him, but almost entire team of Astana (not just kazakhs, italians, spanish all alike). And it's not just Astana they met Menchov and i think Katyusha, Liquigas and a few other guys from other teams there.

And look who we have here, training in Tenerife last year?

http://translate.google.com/transla....com/kanary-tenerife-uzhe-vidat-i-nashix.html

Entire core of Radioshack including you-know-who.

Now where are doubts going to their directions i ask you?

This Tenerife thing is funny.

In January a few years ago (2006 i think) I was in Tenerife for a work meeting, and took the bike, to stay on for a week and do some training for the Cat 2 crit season.

I was riding up Mt. Teide (brutal) and I saw two T-Mobile riders training with a Gerolsteiner rider ahead of me, and I actually caught up with them. I think one of them was Stephan Shreck, I don't know for sure. I heard that Leipheimer was around too.

They looked really knackered riding (slowly) up that hill to be honest....if that's Ferrari's best medicine it clearly takes a week or so to get going!

 

[poupou]

I'm thinking it's a criminal offense to use doping products in France, with stiff penalties. Though I could be mistaken.

No, it's a criminal offense to help someone to dope by providing, selling products or advises !

 

[luckyboy]

Yeah, that (and the bio passport for all riders with a French license [I think]) is why all the doperz moved out of France after 98/9.

Also, not one positive test since they were formed. And it's not like saying 'Saxo Bank/Armstrong/big name rider haven't tested positive, so they must all be clean' because Bbox are hardly contesting/winning in big races like those 'clean' guys are.

 

[BikeCentric]

That is exactly what I thought right from the start, which you should have been able to deduct from my first question to you, but instead you were deliberately obtuse. So apparently, you agree that the UCI should not ban a rider without evidence of doping, but still believe that them failing to do so is a sign of them condoning doping. Nice logic there.

I really don't understand what your problem is. Are the results of the bio-passport for each rider public knowledge? No. So we don't know whether or not the UCI actually has evidence of the likelihood of a rider doping or not. Which should have been kind of obvious to you when I stated that it seems like the UCI is allowing the riders to dope up to the levels stipulated by the bio passport.

Anyway, not sure why you want to keep responding to me in an adversarial tone, but I'm happy to keep exposing your weak intellect if you keep doing so.

 

[elapid]

Now that is an avator you can be proud of.

In honor of you, I will bring back a blast from the past with mine.

+100. You can be a fanboy of her anytime you like. Nice avatar.

 

[santacruz]

If Phillipe Gilbert was doping he'd be like the king of all races like Eddy.. maybe he should dope for an entire year, destroy everyone, and then at the end of the season come out and say "see what can be done when you cheat like everyone else!"

I was riding up Mt. Teide (brutal) and I saw two T-Mobile riders training with a Gerolsteiner rider ahead of me, and I actually caught up with them. I think one of them was Stephan Shreck, I don't know for sure. I heard that Leipheimer was around too.

They looked really knackered riding (slowly) up that hill to be honest....if that's Ferrari's best medicine it clearly takes a week or so to get going!

While you were killing the climb, they were probably tired since it was the 12th time they had done it that day.. or maybe you should go race in Europe since you are apparently better than those slow pokes!! go for it man!!

 

[buckwheat]

While you were killing the climb, they were probably tired since it was the 12th time they had done it that day.. or maybe you should go race in Europe since you are apparently better than those slow pokes!! go for it man!!

I don't know why they didn't stop at 11 times.

That's about 250 miles of climbing for the day. A nice round number.

Apparently the full blown Ferrari/Tenerife program does work after all.

Damn, and they're fully jacked in January. I guess that was 2006. Things have gotten much better since then.

 

[Oldman]

I don't know why they didn't stop at 11 times.

That's about 250 miles of climbing for the day. A nice round number.

Apparently the full blown Ferrari/Tenerife program does work after all.

Damn, and they're full jacked in January. I guess that was 2006. Things have gotten much better since then.

They only go up 5 times but only in the big ring at 110 rpm.