Gene Therapy

[Mambo95]

Taylor Phinney comes to mind as someone who didn't have early ambitions to be a pro athlete (at least not as a cyclist). So there are obvious problems with this approach. But it does make one wonder.

Taylor Phinney was genetically engineered by splicing together the DNA of a Tour de France rider and an Olympic Champion.

I have heard this from a very reliable source.

 

[euanli]

Right so the secret team being talked about here is either going to be Team GB or Teak Sky.

 

[Granville57]

Taylor Phinney was genetically engineered by splicing together the DNA of a Tour de France rider and an Olympic Champion.

I have heard this from a very reliable source.

Yes, he may very well turn out to be cycling's equivalent of the tennis child of Steffi Graf and Andre Agassi.

 

[Mambo95]

Ps. Just Googled the University in question and it IS involved in Gene Therapy research.

You'll struggle to find a major university that isn't involved in it.

 

[Anonymous]

So you definitely don't believe in UFO'S landing on the moon then?

put it this way, i think its more likely that ufo's have landed on the moon than man has. But thats a debate for another part of the forum.

as for gene doping. We are getting a bit into star trek territory.

Wouldnt mind seeing Dolly the Sheep's wattage figures though

 

[Anonymous]

the 2nd seemed more plausable but lacked detail as they didnt want to take part in what ( they believe) they were being asked to do. They were dropped from the squad..

Right so the secret team being talked about here is either going to be Team GB or Teak Sky.

So David Vigano refused to gene dope

The trouble is here, by in the first post of the thread saying "Was provided with this link by somone close to a major squad who tells me that he believes/ knows it`s in use." then you are basically saying that you beleive a top squad is doing it, so ****ing name them then.

if youre not going to name them, then just start the thread with "i was shown this link, is it feasible" or something rather than all this mystery. The mystery of who ends up detracting from the original point, and undermines the credibility of the argument somewhat.

im happy to talk about the possibilities of gene doping, but all this "a source tells me a top team are doing it" is kinda bs. either name names, or dont mention it to start with.

 

[MacRoadie]

No discussion about altered genes would be complete without:

Sorry, Steelers game at commercial break ...

 

[Darryl Webster]

So David Vigano refused to gene dope

The trouble is here, by in the first post of the thread saying "Was provided with this link by somone close to a major squad who tells me that he believes/ knows it`s in use." then you are basically saying that you beleive a top squad is doing it, so ****ing name them then.

if youre not going to name them, then just start the thread with "i was shown this link, is it feasible" or something rather than all this mystery. The mystery of who ends up detracting from the original point, and undermines the credibility of the argument somewhat.

im happy to talk about the possibilities of gene doping, but all this "a source tells me a top team are doing it" is kinda bs. either name names, or dont mention it to start with.

Like it or not thats how it is.
Personaly im NOT convinced but im very curious to the feasability.
Obviously if were to be true its a very disturbing development were ever it might be and whatever sport it might be in.
Without a bloody strong body of evidence( which I dont have) would you name names?. Only a fool would be so disrespectful.
Peeps can speculate all they wish but I wont be doing that.

 

[Anonymous]

Like it or not thats how it is.
Personaly im NOT convinced but im very curious to the feasability.
Obviously if were to be true its a very disturbing development were ever it might be and whatever sport it might be in.
Without a bloody strong body of evidence( which I dont have) would you name names?. Only a fool would be so disrespectful.
Peeps can speculate all they wish but I wont be doing that.

my point being, if you dont have strong evidence then dont hint to start with. Lets all just discuss gene doping without saying that we have info that a major team is doing it.

 

[Anonymous]

No discussion about altered genes would be complete without:

Sorry, Steelers game at commercial break ...

Dont forget Dolly

Same here, a fins fan of thirty years is a token steelers fan for the night.

 

[Anonymous]

can i just add, if this is a result of gene doping....

Then i am fully in favour of gene therapy and can only hope for the day when it is extended to the entire female population of great britain

 

[Darryl Webster]

my point being, if you dont have strong evidence then dont hint to start with. Lets all just discuss gene doping without saying that we have info that a major team is doing it.

Thats a fair point but I was clear that I couldnt/ wouldnt name names.
Its because I feal a certain credibility in the source`s connextions being at the highest levals that I state "a top squad".
There is abalutly no "hint" in my OP as to what those connextions are.
I am so mortified at the possibility of what I was told I`m keen to understand the feasability before I dig deeper.
So peeps, what do we know?

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Would love to see a response to Dim's wishes from someone like PouPou.

Seriously, this has been discussed many times before, with many links before. The term gene doping covers a great many things, not something that just alters your DNA and turns you into a super athlete. Everything from Repoxygen which first surfaced at the Torino Olympics in 2004, to all the stem-cell gene doping talk at Beijing.

So yes, I'm sure it's being attempted, though I have to think it's not easy to access.

 

[euanli]

Thing is Darrly, its not hard to guess who you mean.

 

[Darryl Webster]

Would love to see a response to Dim's wishes from someone like PouPou.

Seriously, this has been discussed many times before, with many links before. The term gene doping covers a great many things, not something that just alters your DNA and turns you into a super athlete. Everything from Repoxygen which first surfaced at the Torino Olympics in 2004, to all the stem-cell gene doping talk at Beijing.

So yes, I'm sure it's being attempted, though I have to think it's not easy to access.

Stem cell doping was mentioned in the convo Alpe. Any links to how that might be done and any possible advantages speculated?

 

[Maxiton]

Thanks, Dim, for that soothing visual antidote to Tammy and the sheep. ("Tammy and the sheep." Sounds like . . . Nah, I won't go there.)

Most everyone agrees there will never be another Eddy Merckx. Should another one appear, however, in, say, 10 years, we'll all be screaming the same words: gene doping! Which is unfortunate.

 

[Granville57]

No discussion about altered genes would be complete without:

Mods, if there were a permanent ban in place to prevent that image of Thomas from ever seeing the light of day again, I, for one, wouldn't protest one bit.
It's especially unfair in the evening hours where I am right now.


May I offer something just to balance the senses?

If you must remove this post, so be it. I'll understand

(But just think of the children!)

 

[euanli]

They both look like they could do with some Transition lenses

 

[Anonymous]

Mods, if there were a permanent ban in place to prevent that image of Thomas from ever seeing the light of day again, I, for one, wouldn't protest one bit.

snip

(But just think of the children!)

Well you got two pairs of Jeans in the picture, but are they dopes?

BUt being serious for a moment. GEne Doping. Is pretty dangerous and serious ****. I cant see any rider that had any sense seriously contemplating it. and the only rider who to me seems like he could possibly be genetically engineered is Cancellara.

 

[Anonymous]

Most everyone agrees there will never be another Eddy Merckx. Should another one appear, however, in, say, 10 years, we'll all be screaming the same words: gene doping! Which is unfortunate.

I remember with a certain fondness the short period when Axel was proclaimed as the next Eddy. We all know how well that went.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

So peeps, what do we know?

Back in 2006 German coach Thomas Springstein had an e-mail or text where he talked about Repoxygen to a collegue. He wasn't the only one associated with this drug, but he was a big name. WADA tried following up on many of his connections and were unable to find any true trace to Repoxygen.

In 2008 German investigators went to Beijing and were able to broker a deal to purchase stem-cell genetic drugs from unscrupulous Chinese doctors. They did not go through with the purchase. Links can be found for both of these.

 

[Granville57]

BUt being serious for a moment. GEne Doping. Is pretty dangerous and serious ****. I cant see any rider that had any sense seriously contemplating it. and the only rider who to me seems like he could possibly be genetically engineered is Cancellara.

Well, consider how many riders have died from EPO and the like. It doesn't that destroying one's health, or very life, is much of a deterrent.

Fabian would be the heartbreaker for me—for any kind of doping. But if something nefarious ever did come to light, we could only laugh and say, "But of course!" But in fairness to the man, I applaud him. With that in mind, allow me to share one of my favorite ever cycling montages. It's all fabian. And if you do watch, be sure to get at least to the half-way mark. This always gets my heart racing (naturally, of course )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdTHnYIAGPs

 

[Merckx index]

Stem cell doping was mentioned in the convo Alpe. Any links to how that might be done and any possible advantages speculated?

I don't think there are any advantages at this time, given all the political obstacles to the use of embryonicstem cells (some of which, to be sure, have recently been removed by Obama). Adult stem cells have been used to treat leukemia, and generally do not have the political/cultural opposition that embryonic cells have. The same is true for induced pluripotent cells, which are produced by injecting ordinary somatic cells with several genes that in essence reprogram them so that they behave in many ways like stem cells. But the long-term safety of treatments with any of these kinds of cells is a major issue. For example, they might divide uncontrollably and form cancers. (For conspiracy theorists, this could have been how LA got his cancer!)

Gene therapy, while certainly raising some very serious questions about safety, is proably a little safer, because whole cells are not being administered to the subject--just the gene, though in some kind of vehicle that targets it to the tissue. The problem here is that gene may have other effects than its intended one. But gene therapy is currently being used in a much wider array of applications than stem cells, for which approved treatments exist only for the adult type of cells. In fact, a lot of scientific interest in stem cells is not for possible direct treatments, but what we can learn about general genetic mechanisms from them. Whereas gene therapy is very definitely a medical application, right now.

There is no question that the technology exists right now not simply to gene dope athletes, but to do it with genes that could greatly enhance performance. Obvious targets would include the gene for EPO, certain growth factors that promote blood vessel growth, and several metabolic enzymes involved in oxygen use in the tissues. A thread here a while back discussed an article that claimed a new blood test for gene doping had been developed. I believe there are ways to foil this test, but I would have to look at it again to refesh my memory.

 

[jonny testaronny]

UK, no?

Im looking at the university in questions website and it sais they were running the worlds first gene therapy trials to treat pancreatic cancer in 2004.
Reading through the list of research projects I was drawn to one with regards to "Hypoxia related gene therapy" as possibly having some relevance for PED potential.

Hmmm--these guys?

http://www.liv.ac.uk/news/press_releases/2004/06/gene_therapy.htm

 

[Fester]

I am not up on the topic. But realise there is a necessity to use viruses as vectors to insert genes, which makes it very dangerous. I think there are methods, much safer of activating or over expressing a certain gene people may already posses.