General Doping Thread.

[glassmoon]

Well, obviously they don't agree with the decision but they can't do anything against it. So this is all they can do. Obviously they don't expect a possible medal to stand and therefor the medal ceremony would be a travesty anyway and I guess they don't want that for their event. After all the reasoning of the CAS doesn't seem to be that there is any special doubt about the positive result, but simply that because she's a minor and the announcement of the positive was so untimely that she couldn't get a great defence until her competition, they are giving her this chance just in case.

If she podiums there won't be any medal ceremony.

They will also allow one more skater into the final.

Edit: WADA is blaming Rusada for not putting a fast track sign on the sample... I'm not sure whether that really was Rusada's responsibility or whether WADA is trying to deflect blame from themselves.

WADA is just stating that the Russia (and all other countries of course) has to mandatory request the fast track regime of testing before the/any major international event/race, but they haven't done so, so the lab (in Sweden) obviously treated it in normal regime which caused the delay... - WADA is basically saying that if the the Russia/RUSADA acted according the correct process, she wouldn't even be allowed to compete in the Olympics (obviously).
It's a clusterfuck for now but I think she will not be allowed to keep any medal from the Beijing '22
According the WADA, the court also misinterpreted their codex regarding the "protected persons/athletes" - don't know what the misinterpretation supposed to be about though

 

[Aimar16]

If anything, USA today news story might have leaked the doping speculation about the Russian team in general after the medal ceremony was postponed. Not that it was so difficult to imagine what was going on even without their contribution. But nothing that was posted above suggests that they (or any other US media) "leaked" the name of the athlete in question. So it's still insidethegames who claim they first broke exclusive news on Valieva's doping specifically.

Alright, you have a point

I won't argue that some US media subsequently started shamelessly exploit this situation and some of their statements were quite outrageous, considering that this case might have been just an innocent error or an oversight, rather than a sign of something widespread and profound. But that's another story.

It's also quite interesting how obsessed the British state broadcaster BBC is with her. BBC's main news twitter account (BBCWorld) tweeted her positive doping test three times in the same day - https://twitter.com/search?q=Valieva (from:BBCWorld) since:2022-02-09&src=typed_query&f=live

Even the BBC's UK news (BBCNews) twitter account tweeted it - https://twitter.com/search?q=Valieva (from:BBCNews)&src=typed_query&f=live

Compare this to the British sprinter who failed a doping test in Tokyo after the 4x100m.

The main BBC news twitter account does not even mention Ujah - https://twitter.com/search?q=CJ Ujah (from:BBCWorld)&src=typed_query&f=live

UK's news account mentions it three times. One tweet about a positive doping test, another about how tragic it would be if the UK team lost the medal, a third about how Ujah is shocked and devastated - https://twitter.com/search?q=Ujah (from:BBCNews)&src=typed_query&f=live

It is so disgusting that the anglo-saxon media is exploiting a 15 year old child. Hopefully she wins tomorrow and sends the anglo-saxon media into total meltdown mode.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

If she podiums there won't be any medal ceremony.

Wait, what? So, say, Valieva gets bronze and then the gold and silver medal-winning athletes won't get their chance to have a ceremony because the IOC is throwing its toys out the pram?

I understand why the IOC and ISU would be unhappy with the decision, and certainly it does them no good for pictures of somebody understood to be a doper atop the podium to be broadcast around the world, but preventing other athletes from receiving their medals in the ceremony doesn't help anyone, and regardless of what colour medal Valieva would win, it says to the other athletes, your receiving your medals are contingent entirely on this one athlete, win lose or draw - therefore even if you win gold she is more important than you.

If the rules on agency and responsibility are different for her because she's a minor, and she therefore is not able to be held to the same standards of responsibility as other competitors, meaning she gets to compete where others would be provisionally suspended, then sure that sucks, but that's part of the risk you take in allowing minors to compete. The level of athlete agency and responsibility is a discussion we've had many times in the Clinic, regarding the likes of Therese Johaug trying to escape a ban by wilfully claiming herself so monumentally stupid she can't understand a no entry "DOPING" sign so the doctor should take the entire blame, and Femke van den Driessche's role in her motocross scandal. But they were both old enough to be considered responsible for their actions, even if in Femke's case we were also largely willing to accept that she was also young enough to be susceptible to influence. The question has to be, if Valieva was Femke's age at the time, 19, what would the ruling be? Would she still compete or would she be provisionally suspended. If the answer is the former, IOC/ISU just have to get on with it and treat her like another competitor until further notice, although obviously under a cloud, no different to when, say, Valverde was riding in 2009-10 while banned from Italy. If the answer is the latter, then they have the issue that other athletes could feasibly complain about not getting to compete on a level playing field, as Valieva being under 16 affords her a chance to compete that adult athletes would not be granted in the circumstances, almost a get-out-of-jail-free card to dope because she's a minor, and that would be an extremely dangerous route to go down in ANY sport.

 

[fmk_RoI]

The question has to be, if Valieva was Femke's age at the time, 19, what would the ruling be? Would she still compete or would she be provisionally suspended.

Until we see the full CAS reasoned decision we should be careful when it comes to cherry picking reasons CAS decided the way they did and then testing the logical absurdity of that chosen reason with reference to non-comparable scenarios (specifically here, were Valieva 19 she wouldn't be a protected person, so question answered).

Right now, all we know is CAS offered a mix of grounds which boil down to a lack of clarity in the rules for minors and it's not her fault the authorities took so long to process her sample.

a) The Athlete is a “Protected Person” under the World Anti-Doping Code (WADC);

b) The RUSADA Anti-Doping Rules and the WADC are silent with respect to provisional suspension imposed on protected persons, while these rules have specific provisions for different standards of evidence and for lower sanctions in the case of protected persons;

c) The Panel considered fundamental principles of fairness, proportionality, irreparable harm, and the relative balance of interests as between the Applicants and the Athlete, who did not test positive during the Olympic Games in Beijing and is still subject to a disciplinary procedure on the merits following the positive anti-doping test undertaken in December 2021; in particular, the Panel considered that preventing the Athlete from competing at the Olympic Games would cause her irreparable harm in these circumstances;

d) The CAS Panel also emphasized that there were serious issues of untimely notification of the results of the Athlete’s anti-doping test that was performed in December 2021 which impinged upon the Athlete’s ability to establish certain legal requirements for her benefit, while such late notification was not her fault, in the middle of the Olympic Winter Games Beijing 2022.

On the issue of lack of clarity in the rules, we have seen this time and again and maybe enough cases like this will finally force WADA to write the rules better. On the issue of timeliness, personally I'm in two minds. I'd like to see the stats CAS relied on when judging what is a fair gap between sample collection and results notification but at the same time I think, in general, more should be being done to speed up that process. Just because it is the way it is doesn't mean we should accept the way it is.

 

[BlueRoads]

Wait, what? So, say, Valieva gets bronze and then the gold and silver medal-winning athletes won't get their chance to have a ceremony because the IOC is throwing its toys out the pram?

I understand why the IOC and ISU would be unhappy with the decision, and certainly it does them no good for pictures of somebody understood to be a doper atop the podium to be broadcast around the world, but preventing other athletes from receiving their medals in the ceremony doesn't help anyone, and regardless of what colour medal Valieva would win, it says to the other athletes, your receiving your medals are contingent entirely on this one athlete, win lose or draw - therefore even if you win gold she is more important than you.

If the rules on agency and responsibility are different for her because she's a minor, and she therefore is not able to be held to the same standards of responsibility as other competitors, meaning she gets to compete where others would be provisionally suspended, then sure that sucks, but that's part of the risk you take in allowing minors to compete. The level of athlete agency and responsibility is a discussion we've had many times in the Clinic, regarding the likes of Therese Johaug trying to escape a ban by wilfully claiming herself so monumentally stupid she can't understand a no entry "DOPING" sign so the doctor should take the entire blame, and Femke van den Driessche's role in her motocross scandal. But they were both old enough to be considered responsible for their actions, even if in Femke's case we were also largely willing to accept that she was also young enough to be susceptible to influence. The question has to be, if Valieva was Femke's age at the time, 19, what would the ruling be? Would she still compete or would she be provisionally suspended. If the answer is the former, IOC/ISU just have to get on with it and treat her like another competitor until further notice, although obviously under a cloud, no different to when, say, Valverde was riding in 2009-10 while banned from Italy. If the answer is the latter, then they have the issue that other athletes could feasibly complain about not getting to compete on a level playing field, as Valieva being under 16 affords her a chance to compete that adult athletes would not be granted in the circumstances, almost a get-out-of-jail-free card to dope because she's a minor, and that would be an extremely dangerous route to go down in ANY sport.

Well... there's the thing that if Valieva doesn't win gold the next ones in line are Trusova and Shcherbakova, both 17, also Russian, also trained by Eteri Tutberidze. Basically the Russians would very likely at least not lose gold if Valieva didn't compete...
Shcherbakova seems injured now, though, and Trusova could be affected mentally. But otherwise they would be the big favourites over everyone else, since they are the only ones with quads, and with Valieva competing they are expected to win silver and bronze. (Unless she absolutely messes up the short program, Trusova just can't skate so bad that she doesn't get a medal. She's got 5 quads in her free program and 1 would be enough to beat any non-Russian...) So the Russians could screw over their own athletes - on the other hand of course one starts to doubt whether the other two girls are clean if Valieva isn't. Because there is no way Valieva did this on her own. Honestly Valieva is just one of Tutberidze's toys. There's already the next in line with Sofia Akatieva who could be able to beat Valieva, but isn't allowed to compete in the Olympics because she lacks one year. These girls don't make many decisions for themselves, the team/ coach controls pretty much everything. Valieva may or may not have known what she was taking (my guess would be she didn't and didn't ask), but it actually feels impossible to really hold her accountable for it.

In my eyes regarding doping a minor needs to be treated the same way that any other athlete would be simply for the sake of the sport. What we don't know though is whether she was doped without her knowledge (or coerced into it), which is totally possible, and this may have played a role in the decision to let her compete - because now she didn't have the time to get enough possible evidence that she didn't know.

I think this decision has not much to do with the real decision that will happen afterwards.

Anyway, I expect this to be the final big drop and the raised age limit at least for figure skating will surely come.

 

[BlueRoads]

Alright, you have a point



It's also quite interesting how obsessed the British state broadcaster BBC is with her. BBC's main news twitter account (BBCWorld) tweeted her positive doping test three times in the same day - https://twitter.com/search?q=Valieva (from:BBCWorld) since:2022-02-09&src=typed_query&f=live

Even the BBC's UK news (BBCNews) twitter account tweeted it - https://twitter.com/search?q=Valieva (from:BBCNews)&src=typed_query&f=live

Compare this to the British sprinter who failed a doping test in Tokyo after the 4x100m.

The main BBC news twitter account does not even mention Ujah - https://twitter.com/search?q=CJ Ujah (from:BBCWorld)&src=typed_query&f=live

UK's news account mentions it three times. One tweet about a positive doping test, another about how tragic it would be if the UK team lost the medal, a third about how Ujah is shocked and devastated - https://twitter.com/search?q=Ujah (from:BBCNews)&src=typed_query&f=live

It is so disgusting that the anglo-saxon media is exploiting a 15 year old child. Hopefully she wins tomorrow and sends the anglo-saxon media into total meltdown mode.

Utter nonsense. What does it matter here if the BBC is hypocritical here? Of course they are. Media usually are when it comes to their own athletes. But you should honestly ask yourself who is the one exploiting a 15year old here.

 

[fmk_RoI]

But you should honestly ask yourself who is the one exploiting a 15year old here.

Could it be the people talking about her? Mea maxima culpa...

 

[Aimar16]

Utter nonsense. What does it matter here if the BBC is hypocritical here? Of course they are. Media usually are when it comes to their own athletes. But you should honestly ask yourself who is the one exploiting a 15year old here.

It's not hypocrisy. Nobody cares that they have posted sympathetic articles about the british gym bro sprinter.

BBC tweeted on their main News account where they hardly ever post about sport (or only very rarely) the same Valieva story three times on the same day at 9:14 am, 1:06 pm and 8:13 pm to ensure it got the most attention and engagement. It is hard to see this as anything other than the BBC taking advantage of the situation.

 

[fmk_RoI]

The scoundrels!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1490740200506642440

View: https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/1490740200506642440

 

[King Boonen]

Mod hat on:

Can I just remind people that political discussion is not allowed on this site. This seems to be trending that way very quickly, please don't go there.

Cheers,

KB.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Also: the number of times @BBCNews - the main BBC news account - has really Tweeted about Valieva: https://tinyurl.com/j3uerxvn

 

[Aimar16]

Also: the number of times @BBCNews - the main BBC news account - has really Tweeted about Valieva: https://tinyurl.com/j3uerxvn

The BBC's main news account is @BBCWorld which has 34 million followers, as you can see from its name and bio. - https://twitter.com/BBCWorld

News, features and analysis from the World's newsroom. Breaking news, follow @BBCBreaking. UK news, @BBCNews. Latest sports news @BBCSport

BBCNews which you linked has 13 million followers = UK News which is in its name (BBC News (UK) - https://twitter.com/BBCNews

For me, this case is closed.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Don't post here much, but still lurk at times. Here's the latest article I can find on the no medal ceremony if she wins.

Kamila Valieva: No medal ceremony for Russian figure skater who failed drugs test - despite teen being allowed to compete in Olympics

The US Olympic and Paralympic Committee called the decision "another chapter in the systemic and pervasive disregard for clean sport by Russia".

news.sky.com

It completely sucks for her, and I think she's unquestionably a pawn in all this, but I have to say I don't think she should be allowed to compete. As someone else said, it sets a terrible precedent. One where rogue doctors could dope underage athletes without known repercussions to the athlete, and thus country and their program, tarnishing sports, ruining lives even. For Valieva there will be other medals to win, including world championships, and a great shot at the Olympics in Italy four years from now. But it looks like they are going to let it all slide. Sad.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

was there a B-sample ?

 

[fmk_RoI]

As someone else said, it sets a terrible precedent. One where rogue doctors could dope underage athletes without known repercussions to the athlete, and thus country and their program, tarnishing sports, ruining lives even.

I would disagree. The facts of the case are she's a protected person and the result of her December 25th test really - in terms of natural justice - should have been made known before the Games. You are talking about a particular set of circumstances. The first of which can readily be sorted by WADA clarifying the rules, thus taking the second out of play.

 

[glassmoon]

Playing the USA/Anti-Russian/BBC-media card does not have a place here imho... but I'm no mod so...
It's she/her-doc/rusada who messed up in the first place. She wouldn't even be in the OG if the correct process was followed by rusada.

 

[Aimar16]

was there a B-sample ?

Not yet

Playing the USA/Anti-Russian/BBC-media card does not have a place here imho... but I'm no mod so...
It's she/her-doc/rusada who messed up in the first place. She wouldn't even be in the OG if the correct process was followed by rusada.

disinfo?

Regarding the information disseminated in the media regarding the delay in the analysis of the athlete's sample, we consider it necessary to report the following.

When planning testing and carrying out doping control, RAA "RUSADA" strictly complies with the requirements of the World Anti-Doping Code and international standards, in particular the International Standard for Testing and Investigations and the International Standard for the Protection of Privacy and Personal Information.

The athlete's sample collected on 25 December 2021 was delivered to the laboratory in sufficient time to complete the analysis within the standard timeframe.

Following the expiration of the international standard timeframe, the laboratory informed the agency of delays in analysis and reporting by the laboratory due to another wave of COVID-19, increased incidence of disease among laboratory personnel and quarantine regulations. At the same time, in its communications, the laboratory indicated a timeline for the availability of test results allowing information from the laboratory until the end of January 2022, i.e. before the start of the Beijing Olympics. Also in January, the laboratory informed that the analysis would be performed as a matter of priority, but that the report of an unfavourable analysis result was submitted on 7 February 2022. Disclosure of other details regarding the manner in which the athlete's sample was analysed was unacceptable and could lead to a violation of the interests of the parties, primarily those of the "protected person".

Upon receipt of the laboratory's report, RAA RUSADA immediately initiated the procedure to process the results, prepare a set of necessary documents, and notify all parties concerned. At the request of the athlete's representatives to hold an expedited hearing on the issue of interim suspension, RAA "RUSADA" took all necessary measures in the shortest possible time to organize and conduct a hearing by the independent Anti-Doping Disciplinary Committee.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

https://rusada.ru/news/press-releas...cas-ad-hoc-division-ot-14-fevralya-2022-goda/

 

[BlueRoads]

For Valieva there will be other medals to win, including world championships, and a great shot at the Olympics in Italy four years from now. But it looks like they are going to let it all slide. Sad.

Probably never was the plan. Tutberidze so far, despite coaching a lot of girls, hasn't had one successful girl older than 19. Lipnitskaya won the Olympics at 15 in 2014, retired 2017. Sagitova won the Olympics in 2018 when she was 15, she hasn't competed since 2019. Medvedeva, 22 now, second in 2018, can only move her back to one side now, hasn't officially retired but won't compete anymore.

 

[Sciatic]

Probably never was the plan. Tutberidze so far, despite coaching a lot of girls, hasn't had one successful girl older than 19. Lipnitskaya won the Olympics at 15 in 2014, retired 2017. Sagitova won the Olympics in 2018 when she was 15, she hasn't competed since 2019. Medvedeva, 22 now, second in 2018, can only move her back to one side now, hasn't officially retired but won't compete anymore.

Wow. Sad

 

[Bolder]

It's not hypocrisy. Nobody cares that they have posted sympathetic articles about the british gym bro sprinter.

BBC tweeted on their main News account where they hardly ever post about sport (or only very rarely) the same Valieva story three times on the same day at 9:14 am, 1:06 pm and 8:13 pm to ensure it got the most attention and engagement. It is hard to see this as anything other than the BBC taking advantage of the situation.

I think what you are seeing is just a reflection of the general interest in the story. It’s got all the elements of a great thriller, plus it’s figure skating. Perhaps you recall a certain kneecapping incident about 25 years ago? Of course the BBC and many other news outlets are playing it up. It’s hardly a run of the mill doping case.

 

[Koronin]

Personally I think the IOC is correct in not doing any medal ceremonies at all if someone involved knowingly failed an anti-doping test. It's the only recourse it appears the IOC itself has in this situation.
Also I'm sorry, but she's 15 and she most definitely knows there are multiple substances she's not allowed take. If she needs something on the banned list then there is a procedure to go through. She would know that. Heck there are plenty of former athletes saying knew that at 13 years old.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Well gosh. Someone who hasn't read the CAS press release, let alone the WADA rules, doesn't care that being a protect person is crucial here, but still wants to make it all about her own brush with the anti-doping authorities.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1493209274457153536

View: https://twitter.com/itskerrii/status/1493209274457153536

 

[PeterB]

Well, some new info - her grandfather allegedly takes medication contaning the substance in question:
https://eu.usatoday.com/story/sport...drug-test-grandfathers-medication/6779576001/

 

[TourOfSardinia]

That's worse: raiding your grandpa's medicine cupboard!

 

[King Boonen]

Well, some new info - her grandfather allegedly takes medication contaning the substance in question:
https://eu.usatoday.com/story/sport...drug-test-grandfathers-medication/6779576001/

This isn't really surprising. Cardiovascular conditions are hugely prevalent in Russians in the 65+ age group and trimetazidine is widely used. A significant number of the posters here will likely have grandparents who are on this or something similar.