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General Doping Thread.

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As I say numerous times - I don't know the real numbers. If we only look at riders who test positive it's a few each year or so. Or about 2%.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...-wider-usage-published-after-scandalous-delay

https://www.shu.ac.uk/news/all-articles/features-and-comment/athlete-doping

**I realize that those two articles are not cycling specific but no reason to think the numbers don't fit the pro peloton as well

There are tons of 'studies' that have been done and, if you ignore the majority/all of the American ones (seems that our athletes are not only cheaters but liars as well (maybe just delusional from all the drugs)), the numbers are pretty damning. When these are only the athletes that admit it, well......... its a risk/reward situation in reality. Nearly zero risk with lots of reward.
 
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https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...-wider-usage-published-after-scandalous-delay

https://www.shu.ac.uk/news/all-articles/features-and-comment/athlete-doping

**I realize that those two articles are not cycling specific but no reason to think the numbers don't fit the pro peloton as well

There are tons of 'studies' that have been done and, if you ignore the majority/all of the American ones (seems that our athletes are not only cheaters but liars as well (maybe just delusional from all the drugs)), the numbers are pretty damning. When these are only the athletes that admit it, well......... its a risk/reward situation in reality. Nearly zero risk with lots of reward.
It's funny that cycling and other tiny marginal sports are discussed as if they are awash in cash. I watched a recent district championship race in California, want to say district4? Race was on public open roads, no lead car, motorcycle or rolling enclosure. Race was poorly attended. Course was in horrible condition, the planning was absolutely ridiculous and dangerous. In the final few kilometers the small lead bunch crosses paths w traffic exiting a California freeway.. No Marshall, no sign just good luck guy didn't pull out. Left turn to an almost unmarked finish line, kids enjoying a bike ride in opposite direction of sprinting racers. Sounds like a recipe for disaster soup!!
California has some of the highest concentrations of licensed racers, to see Central California championship race here less riders than my local club races and rides is sickening and heartbreaking.
All this is directly related to doping, and the doping delineation in sports. In most races I see online and in person, there is no visible doping control. Federation doesn't send mass email to licensed racers about doping, warnings about not doing it, possible testing.. Nothing. Here is a high profile championship race w literally no money involved.. Little to nothing invested.. Not blame, probably just no money available.. So if you don't have police, ambulance, volunteer support you can hardly expect anything to do with doping controls.
In most American amateur sports there is zero doping control presence.. The ability to get drugs increases exponentially yearly, online tutorials about health concerns and avoiding detection. Thousands of places to buy online w complete anonymity.
Lots of reward? All relative I suppose.. Often winning riders best case scenario get a few hundred dollars, top level a thousand or 2..in my opinion hardly worth the hassle
View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fgLve8oSx_A&pp=ygUkU2FuIGFuZHJvIGNoYW1waW9uc2hpcCBjeWNsaW5nICAyMDI0

Here's an example.. Does it look like there is much money involved?
 
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https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...-wider-usage-published-after-scandalous-delay

https://www.shu.ac.uk/news/all-articles/features-and-comment/athlete-doping

**I realize that those two articles are not cycling specific but no reason to think the numbers don't fit the pro peloton as well

There are tons of 'studies' that have been done and, if you ignore the majority/all of the American ones (seems that our athletes are not only cheaters but liars as well (maybe just delusional from all the drugs)), the numbers are pretty damning. When these are only the athletes that admit it, well......... its a risk/reward situation in reality. Nearly zero risk with lots of reward.
Just to clarify, I don't think the real number is a low as 2% either - I used it as an example to demonstrate that false positive rates may be much higher than real positive rates in an hypothethical example. I assume you understood what I was trying to do. Let's say it is 20%!

20% cheating rate among 500 pro peloton riders, approximately 100 are cheaters and 400 are not. Given a test with a 5% true positive rate (TPR) and a 1% false positive rate (FPR), the test correctly identifies 5 cheaters but wrongly accuses 4 non-cheaters each year. Over 5 years, this results in 25 cheaters being caught and 20 innocent riders being falsely accused. This is still gives a 45% chance of the rider being falsely accused.
 
Rewards aren't always financial. The guy at he gym using some 'cream'....he ain't getting paid but that doesn't stop him.
Excellent point, I missed my mark. There is a basic premise of fair play and minimums. In bike racing at almost every level there is no money for drug testing, zero. More likely arguments over reducing the number of potra poddy bathrooms or enough money to get police and ambulance, rent barriers from the town or city if they are even available. Money for drug testing is a distant afterthought for most sports, especially cycling which is super expensive to hold events.
 
So, quick recap of the past weeks:

Sinner tests positive twice - no ban, just some results cancelled
POLADA leak with Swiatek and Lewandowski - literally nothing happens, because its all fake (Russia)

Way to make people trust in clean sports… But probably indeed a way to keep the image, since they killed the topic before it could become big. So cycling continues to be dirty, tennis and football - all great.
 
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So, quick recap of the past weeks:

Sinner tests positive twice - no ban, just some results cancelled
POLADA leak with Swiatek and Lewandowski - literally nothing happens, because its all fake (Russia)

Way to make people trust in clean sports… But probably indeed a way to keep the image, since they killed the topic before it could become big. So cycling continues to be dirty, tennis and football - all great.
The real science in sport podcast discuss the sinner case in detail. It's very likely that he did nothing wrong.
 
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Speaking of the Sinner case, David Walsh did a piece comparing how it was handled with that of a lesser-known Italian player, Stefano Battaglino, who also attributed a clostebol positive to contamination from a massage, but didn't have the resources to put together much of a defence and got 4 years.

link

Two years ago Stefano Battaglino, a lowly ranked Italian tennis player, travelled to Morocco to play the M15 Casablanca, a second-tier World Tennis tournament. A journeyman’s journeyman, Battaglino’s best ranking was No760. During his first-round match against Matas Vasiliauskas, he called for a medical timeout and received a massage from a tournament physiotherapist.

Battaglino won 6-3, 6-0. Afterwards he was informed of the need to attend a random drug test. A month or so later, the examining laboratory reported the presence of the anabolic steroid clostebol in Battaglino’s urine. After the B-sample confirmed the original finding, the player was provisionally suspended and informed he may have committed a doping offence.

In his defence, Battaglino said he had never taken clostebol and couldn’t admit to an offence he didn’t commit. Trying to explain how trace levels of the drug could have got into his system, Battaglino suggested the cream used by the physiotherapist during that first-round match must have contained the drug. Scientists have shown the application of topical creams, containing a banned substance, can easily result in positive tests.

Being a player on tennis’s second-tier tour, Battaglino didn’t have the resources to mount much of a defence. He asked for the contact details of the Moroccan physio who had treated him but his calls went unanswered, his messages ignored. He couldn’t find any evidence to support his belief that the tournament physio had unwittingly used a cream containing clostebol.

They threw the kitchen sink at Battaglino. Four years. Outside of his family and friends, few noticed or cared.

Three months after Battaglino’s career had effectively been ended by the tennis authorities, Umberto Ferrara walked into Farmacia SS Trinita in Bologna and purchased a medical spray with the brand name Trofodermin. Though available over the counter in Italy, Trofodermin contains clostebol. Ferrara understood this because the packaging carried a clear warning, the word “doping” printed inside a red circle with a diagonal line through it.

Ferrara is Jannik Sinner’s fitness trainer. They’d been together for two years. Sinner is now tennis’s No1-ranked player. He has said part of the reason he hired Ferrara was because he had a university degree in pharmacology and understood the complexities of anti-doping. Three weeks after the Bologna purchase, Ferrara is with his boss at the Indian Wells Open in California.

Also part of Team Sinner at Indian Wells was the physiotherapist Giacomo Naldi. While there, Naldi says he reached into his washbag and accidentally cut a little finger on the scalpel he used to treat calluses on Sinner’s feet. He bandaged the finger and after a few days, Ferrara suggested he use the Trofodermin spray to help heal the cut. This is one of the therapeutic uses of the spray.

According to the physio, after spraying his finger he gave full-body massages to the player without washing his hands. Sinner was twice drug-tested in March at Indian Wells and both samples contained tiny amounts of clostebol. On April 17 Sinner was informed that he was provisionally suspended. On the same day his team made an urgent appeal against this decision. The provisional suspension was lifted.

Before an independent panel, Sinner, Ferrara and Naldi explained in some detail how the positive tests had come to pass. Through their eyes it was accidental contamination for which Sinner bore no responsibility. A layman, without Ferrara’s pharmacological background, would wonder why the fitness trainer would not have warned Naldi that he was treating his finger with a doping product and he needed to be careful.

Ferrara said he did warn his colleague but Naldi doesn’t recollect this. The independent panel thought it was possible that Naldi was jet-lagged at the time because he arrived into Indian Wells later than the others. The panel also surmised that perhaps he was distracted by family pressures. What is clear from the panel’s 33-page report is that the three adjudicators seemed disposed to give Sinner and his team the benefit of the doubt. Sinner, Ferrara and Naldi all said the physio cut his finger in Indian Wells but a friend of Sinner’s called Mr Gius remembered the cut as having happened at an entirely different location.

The panel accepted the accounts of the player, coach and physio. Mr Gius was not called upon to give evidence.

On his platform Honest Sport, the journalist Edmund Willison investigated the abuse of clostebol in Italian sport. “Over the past decade,” Willison wrote, “the drug has resurfaced in Italian football and across Italy’s wider sporting landscape. Between 2019 and 2023, 38 Italian athletes have tested positive for clostebol despite the fact it is scarcely produced in oral or injectable form by pharmaceutical companies.”

Last week at tennis’s US Open, fans seemed for the most part to be on Sinner’s side. His peers, less so. Sinner admitted to feeling some coolness in the locker room.

“Different rules for different players,” Canada’s Denis Shapovalov wrote on social media. “Can’t imagine what every other player that got banned for contaminated substances is feeling right now.” The French player Lucas Pouille said: “Maybe they should stop taking us for fools.” Nick Kyrgios went further: “Whether it was accidental or planned. You get tested twice with a banned [steroid] substance you should . . . be gone for two years.”

There is a sense that the ATP views its best players differently, though this may have as much to do with top players’ financial might as any desire to protect the biggest names.“This is ridiculous. Second-hand steroids through a massage? ATP always looks out for their money-makers. Good for business, bad for transparency and integrity,” the American player Tennys Sandgren said.

We cannot know if Battaglino knowingly used clostebol, nor if Sinner did. What we can say is that one was able to meticulously prepare his defence, the other wasn’t; one was given the benefit of the doubt, but not the other. The big guy escapes. The small guy feels the full force of anti-doping law. One law for the rich, another for the poor.

These are not good times for the anti-doping movement. In late June the US cleared the sprinter Erriyon Knighton of a doping violation in highly controversial circumstances, allowing him to compete at the Paris Olympics. This country did the same with the two-times Olympic gold-medal winner at taekwondo, Jade Jones, meaning she too could get to Paris. Then there were the 23 Chinese swimmers, testing positive and being cleared.

Such is the challenge of upholding positive tests that the global anti-doping movement has to sing from the same sheet. Alas, the community has never been more divided. Those with even a peripheral interest in this subject will know that the United States Anti-Doping Agency now has a deep mistrust of the World Anti-Doping Agency. The reverse is also true.

They both need to grow up and get on with the job. We need to keep paying attention.
 
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The Norwegian anti-doping agency appears to be a very competent and professional organisation.

The Norwegian Anti-Doping Agency wanted to test three national team players, one who is not in the squad and two dead national team heroes.
At a press conference on Wednesday, national team manager Ståle Solbakken revealed that Anti-Doping Norway had stopped by to test five players.

- The following players were taken out: Erling Braut Haaland, Jørgen Strand Larsen, Antonio Nusa, Oscar Bobb, Einar Gundersen and Jørgen Juve,’ says Solbakken.

Einar Gundersen died in 1962. Jørgen Juve died in 1983. Oscar Bobb has a long-term injury and has recently been training in Barcelona.
- Then we began to wonder. It was serious. Then we had to call Anti-Doping Norway: 'There are two people here (from you), is it a hidden camera or is it as it is? Ståle Solbakken tells.
 
I can't remember if I posted this here before, I don't think so. I competed at national level for a number of years and finally in 2017 I was selected for post-race blood testing by UKADA who were at a national championships event. The one and only time I've ever been tested.

Except I wasn't nearly not even tested that day, because they tried three times to get blood from my arm and only managed the last time on my other arm. It was a hot day, I'd just done a one hour TT and was pretty dehydrated I guess. I had a bad day and finished about 15th! I don't know who else was chosen for testing.

The testing took place in a small dingy office at the sports hall which was the event HQ. I was told to sit on a chair next to the door and the phlebotomist knelt on the filthy floor beside me and tried to get the needle into my arm, all the while having to shift over as the door kept opening and people I didn't know entered and left the room seemingly arbitrarily.

I was bruised on both arms for a week afterwards. Before that, I had little faith that anti doping measures were catching anyone, but after that experience I had no faith that UKADA even knew how to do it properly. Felt like a completely amateur operation, or maybe that was the point, all just giving the illusion that they were doing it without really worrying if they were doing it correctly because it was just some amateur UK TT (not even BC sanctioned) nobody cared about, and why they chose me I'll never know given I was having a terrible season at well into my 40s at that point! Complete waste of time and resources.
 
The Norwegian anti-doping agency appears to be a very competent and professional organisation.




This put's ToreBear's old posts from the XC Skiing thread where they insisted that Anti-Doping Norway's proclamations of how their skiers had never done anything wrong should be taken at face value despite people without asthma admitting to using asthma drugs without exemptions "in case I feel asthma-like symptoms" because of the high standing and repute of Anti-Doping Norway into context.
 
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This put's ToreBear's old posts from the XC Skiing thread where they insisted that Anti-Doping Norway's proclamations of how their skiers had never done anything wrong should be taken at face value despite people without asthma admitting to using asthma drugs without exemptions "in case I feel asthma-like symptoms" because of the high standing and repute of Anti-Doping Norway into context.
I remember ToreBear, he was fun. He was like the Norges Ski Forbundet spokesperson.
 
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This put's ToreBear's old posts from the XC Skiing thread where they insisted that Anti-Doping Norway's proclamations of how their skiers had never done anything wrong should be taken at face value despite people without asthma admitting to using asthma drugs without exemptions "in case I feel asthma-like symptoms" because of the high standing and repute of Anti-Doping Norway into context.
Which was why, of course, a portion of their team bus was apparently equipped with more albuterol nebulizer stations than a children’s hospital ER.
 
After listening to the UCI's anti-motor doping Tzar, Nicholas Raudenski, talk about his former job as investigating match/sport fixing, I found interesting the article on the BBC website at https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/cd05385k722o about an English soccer player and his involvement with fixing (for large amounts of cash) matches he was in.

But enormous amounts of money being bet on lowly soccer matches (more then on Spanish giants Barcelona's matches) was a certain way to raise suspicion and the interest of law enforcement.

Edit - add - and of course when 1 thing pops up - Bloomberg looks at sports betting in the US - 1.45 trillion Euros floating around on sports betting, wow!
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/vide...sports-for-players-video?srnd=homepage-europe
 
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– Vi håper fortsatt at vi skal finne ut hvor det kommer fra. At jeg kan vise at jeg ikke har gjort dette. For det har jeg ikke, sier Knotten til VG.

- We still hope that we will find out where it comes from. That I can show that I have not done this. Because I don't have that, says Knotten to VG.
 
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– Vi håper fortsatt at vi skal finne ut hvor det kommer fra. At jeg kan vise at jeg ikke har gjort dette. For det har jeg ikke, sier Knotten til VG.

- We still hope that we will find out where it comes from. That I can show that I have not done this. Because I don't have that, says Knotten to VG.
Known to be a contaminant in some supplements. Yoel Romero got a reduced penalty. Still he should have known better. https://www.usada.org/sanction/yoel-romero-accepts-sanction/
 
In an interview Amina Lanaya says the principle of payed informants has been accepted. Does that mean there will be "moles" in the teams, to pass on inside information to the UCI?
This is, I assume, the article you're refering to -
https://wielerrevue.nl/artikel/6206...tie-van-de-vrouw-is-veranderd-ook-in-de-sport
(googling translation)
To boost that credibility, Lanaya is working with chairman Lappertient on a new method. The two are in the process of enlisting paid informants to expose imposters, as the USADA has already done.

"We can never be sure of a completely clean peloton and that is why we are investing as much as possible in the fight against doping," Lanaya said. "Our intention is to do the maximum to catch cheaters."

"Cheating will always be there, as they are everywhere in life. If we have to pay informants, we will. We are the first international federation to do so."
WADA has already in place regulations to use convicted dopers as informants to get reduced penalties (which is something USADA was quick to point out). The International Testing Agency is also desperately trying to get informants.
 
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