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Generic "OEM" frames out of china on ebay

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Jul 2, 2009
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the question of buying a frame from china/taiwan is quality/shipment/engineering/warranty.

just by the fact that any ebay search regarding bicyle carbon frames results in hundreds of carbon options means that asia has caught up in their marketing/selling potential.

As the numbers rise on feedback, direct buy from manufacturers, i believe, will become the norm. It is a matter of trust. I would think the big manufacturers are trying to figure out how to cash in on the concept, besides selling all their backstock through Sierra trading Post, as example.

We are seeing an incredible upswing in bikes arriving at the shop, which just got unboxed at the buyers home, and need a tune. And it will continue to rise. New Generation of iphone shoppers.

Most pro clothing is being copied/produced overseas, selling well below cost, with a stiff shipping fee.

The further something travels, the more it is handled. My concern would be in the shipping.

frames just from China

http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=ca...t=1&LH_SALE_CURRENCY=0&_sop=12&_dmd=1&_ipg=50

jerseys

http://shop.ebay.com/2allsport/m.ht...3A1%7C72%3A2124&_ipg=200&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14

if i needed a frame, for example, i would consider this.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Brand-New-Black...dZViewItemQQptZRoad_Bikes?hash=item3a596ec225

above frame, could be the price of a high end fork, for all those buyers thinking a name brand fork is necessary.
 
Mar 6, 2010
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shane_fedon said:
Your absolutely right. it is oversimplification on my part as i could easily go into considerably more detail. This is a forum though, so it wasn't necessary.

I actually agreed with your first post and was not disputing it. My oversimplification comment was directed at the post that I quoted where the comment was made that frames were a ripoff because they only cost $2-300USD to make. Good information in both your posts, thanks for sharing.
 
Mar 22, 2010
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db2112 said:
I actually agreed with your first post and was not disputing it. My oversimplification comment was directed at the post that I quoted where the comment was made that frames were a ripoff because they only cost $2-300USD to make. Good information in both your posts, thanks for sharing.

No worries man! i didn't take offense, i was just agreeing with you too! ha! :)

have a great day! this is a great topic though! i hope more people keep it going because there is really so much to talk about and let people know so they stop with inuendo!

all the best,shane
 
Mar 22, 2010
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db2112 said:
According to Ebay, "Jersey made by 100% polyester,". My only question is, are these knock-offs and are these companies stealing the design? Nowhere does it state these are the original Craft items, though the title implies they might be. You get what you pay for....

i will say that there is definitely scams in the clothing world for certain! beside frames and components.

at rock racing, i know we have very edgy clothing designs, but the funny thing is all the knock offs coming out of china of our clothing! Not only were they stealing designs, but atleast if they do, do a good job of it not the terrible work we are finding for sale on ebay from the said company!!!

i found a company in shenzhen that was knocking off not only our stuff but clothing from assos, Pearl izumi, everyone!

i was going to pay them a visit on my next trip to asia. then i actually got an email from the company asking if they could discuss making clothing for us as they like our style! i guess they like it so much they are knocking it off, and now people want the real thing from them, unbelievable!! :) besides us putting a ebay "stop selling" request in for counterfiet clothing, when i looked at it there clothing, it was so bad! i would be ****ed paying $40 for a jersey in that quality.

awe what can you do though. i wish our clothing wasn't so expensive for people, but then again we make everything here in LA and we pay our people well to keep there workmanship high, so that the end consumer enjoys the product!

ok, all the best.
 
Jul 2, 2009
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I was curious how International companies can sue a Chinese company for copying logo and jersey design.

Any ideas ?

if you notice the companies change names/seller monthly. A game of catch up

Does Ebay protect the seller ?
 
Mar 22, 2010
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tubularglue said:
I was curious how International companies can sue a Chinese company for copying logo and jersey design.

Any ideas ?

if you notice the companies change names/seller monthly. A game of catch up

Does Ebay protect the seller ?

Honestly, it's so hard man! yes we can go after them for trademark infrigment for our logos. as far as the designs, it's really hard. the biggest thing we can do is get them for selling product, saying that it is our product. but then again, how many are they selling, where.
when they sell in the usa or europe, we can shut them down fast, legally, but only the places they are selling them, such as ebay as example. but companies actually doing the selling will pop up here and there, as on ebay, you don't have to be a company to sell. it's almost a neverending battle. so we have to employ people, whom it's there job to constently find these guys and get ebay to shut them down. Ebay really does a good job of supporting everyone in the name of coming down hard on "fake goods".

there is a company in china--"Nimble". they are copying everyone! hell, i got another email this morning from them asking if they can make our kits! unless we say yes, they will keep on doing it. luckily, there workmanship is pretty shotty and the graphics are downright bad, but they still say rock racing, or pearl izumi, etc...

honestly, until the chinese government supports western companies in enforcing trademark and design infringement, it's a looseing battle. we do the best we can!

all the best, shane
 
Mar 22, 2010
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tubularglue said:
can you buy insurance on trademark infringement ?

http://www.riskvue.com/articles/fs/fs0304.htm

http://beijing.usembassy-china.org.cn/iprtrade.html

mid article - "2. Civil Litigation"

mr tubularglue, :)

your right, there are ways, but the big issue is actually getting them to stop! if they were in taiwan, it's reallly easy to stop, as the taiwanese government is really behind helping people shut down counterfiet efforts. even though taiwan is a aprt of china, get the mainland chinese government to help stop them is really tough!

we do keep trying and issuing cease and assists. it's tough though!

this is a great topic though, and probably best to have its own thread as to not take away from the original auther's wanted response!

all the best, shane
 
Mar 19, 2009
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i'd be nervous to buy a no name from ebay, but i'd happily buy one from a LBS.

my theory with ebay purchases is like this - if I'd ever need / want to take up the warranty option on what I'm buying then get it locally from a store. I'd consider buying a bike IF i could inspect it prior to purchase.

no-names are the way the go IMO but go get one from a LBS and shop around.
 
Mar 19, 2009
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mherm79 said:
i'd be nervous to buy a no name from ebay, but i'd happily buy one from a LBS.

my theory with ebay purchases is like this - if I'd ever need / want to take up the warranty option on what I'm buying then get it locally from a store. I'd consider buying a bike IF i could inspect it prior to purchase.

no-names are the way the go IMO but go get one from a LBS and shop around.

Very rarely are you going to get help from an LBS to purchase blank or OEM frames because they're committed to selling their brands. You need to know someone deeper in the industry, or play the role of a fake company to get the best pricing. Actually, your local frame builder can get really great deals on blanks. My first one was a Dedacciai Nero Corsa that small shop builders get and jack up the price by 2 grand just for adding paint and decals when they're getting them for less than a grand. If you noticed Steelman stopped selling that exact frame set. Always thought it was weird when Brent started that messing with those prebuilt carbon frames, considering his name and expertise.
 
Mar 19, 2009
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RDV4ROUBAIX said:
Very rarely are you going to get help from an LBS to purchase blank or OEM frames because they're committed to selling their brands.

By no name I don't mean sticker less, just not a big brand. I know a LBS that sells bikes with frames identical to Gitane's, they are just branded differently.

His was selling full durace, with mavic SL's for $3500 last time i checked a year ago
 
Jan 10, 2010
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Great discussions that touch upon the essentials.

I've benefitted from both sides of the issue. Purchased the top of the line Specialized SL2 at my local bike shop. And when the seat stay snapped during a race they replaced the frame without ever asking a single question about what happened.

Needing a Time Trial frame, I couldn't justify dropping that kind of cash on a bike that I will only race a few times a year. So ordered this one after a bit of research.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Carbon-Triathlo...dZViewItemQQptZRoad_Bikes?hash=item3cac06e474

No warranty, no service, nothing comes with this purchase, other than the frame. I got a great frame that measures to specifications.

Lucky?

Perhaps.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Pedal Force CG1 Frame $790 same as Raptor Series 7 $2699

There has been a bit of chatter about OEM frames on here lately, which brought my attention to the Pedal Force site. Thanks guys, you saved me a bundle of money (only had 3 thousand to spend and wanted the best for my money).

I bought the CG1 frame without the ISP for $790 US and customised it with 2010 SRAM Force throughout (upgraded to Red levers). I also found Pedal Force amazingly cheap on their bike parts. I compared them with some online shops including Wiggle and they worked out significantly cheaper.

Wanting to make sure I got a good deal, I wanted to find out which companies rebadge this frame and came across Raptor Bikes (or Predator Custom Bikes) from Texas.

Their top of the line series 7 http://www.predatorbicycles.com/series_7 seems to me to be identical to the Pedal Force CG1 http://pedalforce.com/online/product_info.php?cPath=101740&products_id=13613 frame (but almost $2000 more expensive). What do you think?

They are made from the same materials and have the same sizes, geometry and schematic drawings.

Anyone else knows another company that has rebadged this frame?

Anyway just wanted to say thanks again for the bundle of money you saved me. I have a 6.9 to 7kg bike for about $2500 US.
 
Mar 19, 2009
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Indurain said:
Found another bike company that appear to use the Pedal Force CG1 and rebadge it. RITTE VAN VLAANDEREN http://www.ritteracing.com/ritte-bicycles/. They are selling the frame for $1650. Don't mind the paint job and their 3yr crash warranty.

Dang, that's actually a really good looking rig! Something about the Belgian colors, and this is really simply done. Very nice. My only questions would be seeing as how they're Belgian, or I should say Belgian themed, I wonder if the Bosberg has enough clearance for 28mm tires. Would be nice if they kept the integrated post for the Crossberg too.
 
RDV4ROUBAIX said:
Dang, that's actually a really good looking rig! Something about the Belgian colors, and this is really simply done. Very nice. My only questions would be seeing as how they're Belgian, or I should say Belgian themed, I wonder if the Bosberg has enough clearance for 28mm tires. Would be nice if they kept the integrated post for the Crossberg too.

Hey guys, I'm Spencer and I actually own Ritte Cycles. I aim to be very transparent about our bikes and philosophy, so I thought I'd clarify some things. Pedal Force isn't actually a manufacturer, they're a clearing house for the factories, so it's common to find their frames match other brands. (Their previous top-end model was also labeled as a Fondriest, for instance). That said, Ritte doesn't actually make the bikes and we don't own the molds. If we did either of these things, the Bosberg would have to be $3500 instead of $1650. We did, however, play a significant role in the design and testing of the frame, and sharing it with other companies ends up being a good thing for us and our customers. Despite also being available as a "generic" frame from Pedal Force, it's actually an amazing bike. And if you're looking for a new frame and want to save some cash, then you should pick it up from PF. You'll have to also buy the fork and headset, and I don't think theirs has a seat mast, but their price still ends up being lower than ours since we paint the Bosberg and deal in very limited quantities.

To answer your question, RDV4ROUBAIX, The Boserg won't accept 28mm tires, but it does handle 25s. We just raced them at Battenkill and they ate up the dirt. It has a longish wheelbase and chainstays and ends up being a very balanced, stable bike. As for the Crossberg, it won't have a seat mast because it's just not practical. ... maybe I'll cave to the pressure next year.

If you're interested to hear more I wrote a blog entry about all this on my site: http://www.ritteracing.com/2010/02/wheres-your-bike-made/

Cheers, Spencer
 
Mar 19, 2009
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RitteRacing said:
To answer your question, RDV4ROUBAIX, The Boserg won't accept 28mm tires, but it does handle 25s. We just raced them at Battenkill and they ate up the dirt. It has a longish wheelbase and chainstays and ends up being a very balanced, stable bike. As for the Crossberg, it won't have a seat mast because it's just not practical. ... maybe I'll cave to the pressure next year.

You should cave into the pressure, I'll even buy one if you do. Smooth transitions baby! No more deltoid, elbow, or forearm scrapes from the seat collar when things get hot on race day. ;)

If you're interested to hear more I wrote a blog entry about all this on my site: http://www.ritteracing.com/2010/02/wheres-your-bike-made/

Oh-oh, nice Rock burn! You and Shane might have some words here. Battle of the small Co. Asian importers round I.. DING!
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Hi Spencer.

I really enjoyed your blog entry. It explained the market and the production of frames very well. I can't wait to get my new rig set up after your review of it. I also enjoyed your comments to Mr Jaun, you took no crap and made no apologies for providing a viable market to us poorer guys. You guys did do a fantastic paint job on the Bosberg. Just out of interest though, why is it that you don't like the Rock Racking bike (or Team if you meant that).
 
May 13, 2009
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Indurain said:
Their top of the line series 7 http://www.predatorbicycles.com/series_7 seems to me to be identical to the Pedal Force CG1 http://pedalforce.com/online/product_info.php?cPath=101740&products_id=13613 frame (but almost $2000 more expensive). What do you think?

They are made from the same materials and have the same sizes, geometry and schematic drawings.

Anyone else knows another company that has rebadged this frame?

If I am not mistaken, Fetish cycles sells this frame

http://www.fetishcycles.com/images/normal/images/Belleza/DSCF0628.jpg

edit: the pedal force one
 
Big GMaC said:
Whoever said that they are only produced out here because it is cheap doesn't understand that Taiwan and China have been investing in Carbon Fibre Development techniques for far longer than European companies, in fact you should probably be more in your bike is not made out here!

What?

In the early 80s when Vitus, Alan and Look were building some of the first carbon frames there was no investment in carbon fiber happening in the far east. In the mid 80s when Kestrel introduced the first monocoque carbon fiber frame with their Kestrel 4000 there still was no Asian investment in carbon fiber.

So how can you say that the investment has been going on far longer in Asia than in the rest of the world? That simply isn't true. :rolleyes:

First of all, carbon fiber development was never really done by the bicycle industry. They simply copied it from other industries like aerospace and applications like auto racing. The so called "development" that you claim is currently going on is still the bicycle industry copying other industries.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Thanks, Spencer of Ritte Cycles! Good info.

So who has actually bought one of these off-brand or no-name frames?

Anyone?

I might be one soon.
 
Apr 24, 2009
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Another place for cheap bikes in Australia is cellbikes.com.au. They are currently selling a carbon bike with Di2 for AU$3999 (about US$ 3500 or £2500). If you compare it to prices in the UK (most places sell cheapest carbon bike from £1500) it is a steal.