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Gesink or Menchov for the 2010 Tour?

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flicker said:
The Giro is a tough race. I don't know if it is harder then the tour, I don't think Le Mond won it but he did win the tour 3 times. Ask the athletes. The Italians give it there all and they have not won for a few years which tells me its tough. Menchov was burned out at the tour. I think Merckx has won the Giro and tour in the same year but then again he is Merckx no one else compares except Coppi and Anquentil.

This sentence is exactly four words too long.

Merckx is Merckx, noone even come close to comparing.
 
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auscyclefan94 said:
I see more potential in gesink than Jurgen van den Breakaway. I think gesink can tt but for van den breakaway, he just doesn't have it in the tt. Both of these teams are forgetting the amount of wins, high placings and publicity they have gotten for their team and to push riders like Menchov and evans aside is wrong.

Auscyclefan, I see you've picked up on my Jurgen van den Breakaway comments in the last few weeks!! To be fair, you should probably quote me on that one ;)

I was beginning to think that joke had slipped under the radar hahaha.

Agreed. VDB is WAY behind gesink. I think that given no-one can or will beat AC in the coming years, then coleadership should work becoz no other gc favourites are going to have a conflict with teammates over who wins the tour. they can only conflict over 2nd and 3rd place
 
Aug 4, 2009
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I think the question should be does Gesink or Andy Schleck has better chance of winning the Tour?

I think it would be too fast to discount Menchov like Cadel Evans to say they don't have a chance at winning. They add great value to the team, though they might not win. It'll probably take another two Tours before Gesink is really ready I think. He hasn't been consistent for god's sake. Andy Schleck has performed much much better in his 2 Tour appearances, and also he's young.
 
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auscyclefan94 said:
I see more potential in gesink than Jurgen van den Breakaway. I think gesink can tt but for van den breakaway, he just doesn't have it in the tt.

Jurgen VDB is a former junior TT world champion. I agree we haven't seen the same level of TT'ing from him at the pro level. But I'm sure he'll easily improve again once he focuses a little more on his TT'ing which IMO he neglected the last few years to improve his climbing capabilities in Italy.

2004:
8 Ronde van België / Tour de Belgique, Stage 4a : Mechelen I.T.T.

2005:
10 Setmana Catalana, Stage 5 : Palau de Plegamans I.T.T.
5 Circuit de la Sarthe - Pays de la Loire, Stage 2b : Angers I.T.T.
14 Tour de Romandie, Stage 5 : Lausanne I.T.T.
5 National Championships Belgium I.T.T.

2006:
8 Vuelta a Murcia - Costa Calida, Stage 3 : Jumilla I.T.T.
25 Tour de Romandie, Prologue : Geneva I.T.T.
9 Tour de Romandie, Stage 5 : Lausanne I.T.T.
3 Ronde van België / Tour de Belgique, Stage 3a : Buggenhout I.T.T.

2007:
25 Paris - Nice, Prologue : Issy-les-Moulineaux I.T.T.
10 Tour de Romandie, Prologue : Freiburg I.T.T.
17 Tour de Romandie, Stage 5 : Lausanne I.T.T.
56 Giro d'Italia, Stage 13 : Biella - Santuario di Oropa I.T.T.
16 Giro d'Italia, Stage 20 : Bardolino - Verona I.T.T.
40 Tour de Suisse, Prologue : Olten I.T.T.
19 Post Danmark Rundt - Tour of Denmark, Stage 5 : Naestved I.T.T.
3 National Championships Belgium (Maldegem) I.T.T.
23 Eneco Tour of Benelux, Prologue : Hasselt I.T.T.
24 Eneco Tour of Benelux, Stage 7 : Sittard - Geleen I.T.T.
23 World Championships (Stuttgart) I.T.T.

2008:
55 Paris - Nice, Prologue : Amilly I.T.T.
14 Vuelta al Pais Vasco, Stage 6 : Orio I.T.T.
13 Giro d'Italia, Stage 10 : Pesaro - Urbino I.T.T.
12 Giro d'Italia, Stage 16 : San Vigilio di Marebbe - Plan de Corones I.T.T.
79 Giro d'Italia, Stage 21 : Cesano Maderno - Milano I.T.T.
75 Deutschland-Tour, Prologue : Kitzbühel I.T.T.
20 Deutschland-Tour, Stage 8 : Bremen I.T.T.

2009:
80 Paris - Nice, Stage 1 : Amilly I.T.T.
66 Tour de Romandie, Prologue : Lausanne I.T.T.
21 Critérium du Dauphiné Libéré, Stage 1 : Nancy I.T.T.
29 Critérium du Dauphiné Libéré, Stage 4 : Bourg-lès-Valence - Valence I.T.T.
25 Tour de France, Stage 1 : Monaco I.T.T.
32 Tour de France, Stage 18 : Annecy I.T.T.
27 Eneco Tour of Benelux, Prologue : Rotterdam I.T.T.
5 Eneco Tour of Benelux, Stage 7 : Amersfoort I.T.T.
 
Oct 8, 2009
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Playing out both in the Tour might indeed be the best idea. But what about the Giro and Vuelta then? I mean Menchov can't ride all three of them.

What I personally think they will do is pick Menchov for the Giro, make it his main target, and let him do the Tour as well.
 
auscyclefan94 said:
I see more potential in gesink than Jurgen van den Breakaway. I think gesink can tt but for van den breakaway, he just doesn't have it in the tt. Both of these teams are forgetting the amount of wins, high placings and publicity they have gotten for their team and to push riders like Menchov and evans aside is wrong.

I thought this thread was about Gesink and Menchov. How did Evans get a mention?;) Seriously though, I don't think at this point Evans should have any fears of being "pushed aside" in favor of Van Den Broeck. I would hope that the Silence/Lotto management, or whatever they're called now, are well aware that Van Den Broeck is still unproven and needs at least a year of seasoning to determine if he even warrants consideration for being their protected rider. What exactly has he won at this point in his career?

As far as Gesink and Menchov, Gesink will get his chance at the Tour based on his Vuelta performance. Menchov and Gesink will likely go into the Tour with Menchov as leader and Gesink as wildcard. Menchov's record dictates that he be treated with respect. Gesink's has shown that he is worthy of
a growing role and I'm sure Menchov is intelligent enough to see that the young rider is the future of the team and won't make too much of a fuss. Also I do recall that Menchov fully intends to defend his Giro win so likely he will go into the Tour with at most a co-leader's roll with Menchov, likely to guide the young man since he still has yet to complete the Tour. I expect Gesink to be among the elite on all the climbs, such is his talent.

To the references to Menchov being "a waste": Come on! He's really doesn't deserve that. Only one rider can win the Tour each year. He's been in the mix
for the most part for the past 3 years or more while also contending and/or winning at the Vuelta and the Giro. Multiple grand tour winners aren't deserving of being dismissed like that. Likely he exhausted all of his energies winning the Giro this year. That is my reasoning to explain his dismal performance at the Tour this year. Same goes for Sastre. Now Evans, that's an entirely different story. :D
 
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auscyclefan94 said:
I see more potential in gesink than Jurgen van den Breakaway. I think gesink can tt but for van den breakaway, he just doesn't have it in the tt. Both of these teams are forgetting the amount of wins, high placings and publicity they have gotten for their team and to push riders like Menchov and evans aside is wrong.

JVB/Evans and Gesink/Menchov shouldn't be compared... Evans is so far ahead of JVB it isn't funny, gesink not so much behind menchov, ahead of him in some aspects.

unsheath said:
Where's TimmyLovesRabo? He's gonna cream his pants when he sees this thread.

haha. too much evans talk killed the mood :p

Angliru said:
To the references to Menchov being "a waste": Come on! He's really doesn't deserve that. Only one rider can win the Tour each year. He's been in the mix
for the most part for the past 3 years or more while also contending and/or winning at the Vuelta and the Giro. Multiple grand tour winners aren't deserving of being dismissed like that. Likely he exhausted all of his energies winning the Giro this year. That is my reasoning to explain his dismal performance at the Tour this year. Same goes for Sastre. Now Evans, that's an entirely different story. :D

+1

--- annywhoo to the topic itself.

I predict a rabo GT setup similar to the following

GIRO: Menchov Leads
Tour: Menchov and Gesink Co-Lead
Vuelta: Mollema :D (Contrary to the first post, I think we dutch potentially have two GT men.. watch out for this guy.)

And to be honest a co-leadership at the tour would only be fair.

Menchov for all his results and GT prestige doesn't deserve to be treated anything but a team leader.

As for Gesink... he is such a talent, climbed better then most at the vuelta (basso, evans etc...) and wasn't really bested by anyone. His TTing is continiously improving, and one can only assume he will only continue to devolp. I predict 2010 being the year where Gesink turns some of his excellent placings into victories, has the ability to podium at next years tour imo. And Finally, he has shown on multiple occasions now that he has a monstor heart (no need to finish stage 5 at the tour, but he did --- his vuelta (after the crash). and that is something very special in a rider.
 
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not seeking a controversy or anything like that but can’t help myself .

what a difference between the rabo’s dutch fans and the astana’s american fans. understandably fans from all over the world want to see their compatriots winning and leading domestic teams. who can argue with that!

but notice how menchov vs. gesink issues get treated with courtesy and respect for menchov by the dutch while those pre and post tour comments on contador vs. armstrong were filled with contempt and insults for contador. wow. Now shoot me :)
 
Jun 22, 2009
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python said:
not seeking a controversy or anything like that but can’t help myself .

what a difference between the rabo’s dutch fans and the astana’s american fans. understandably fans from all over the world want to see their compatriots winning and leading domestic teams. who can argue with that!

but notice how menchov vs. gesink issues get treated with courtesy and respect for menchov by the dutch while those pre and post tour comments on contador vs. armstrong were filled with contempt and insults for contador. wow. Now shoot me :)

it comes down to something different at astana though, it was more LA haters vs LA fanboys (who incidently treat every other contendor with no respect.)
 
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Angliru said:
I thought this thread was about Gesink and Menchov. How did Evans get a mention?;) Seriously though, I don't think at this point Evans should have any fears of being "pushed aside" in favor of Van Den Broeck. I would hope that the Silence/Lotto management, or whatever they're called now, are well aware that Van Den Broeck is still unproven and needs at least a year of seasoning to determine if he even warrants consideration for being their protected rider. What exactly has he won at this point in his career?

As far as Gesink and Menchov, Gesink will get his chance at the Tour based on his Vuelta performance. Menchov and Gesink will likely go into the Tour with Menchov as leader and Gesink as wildcard. Menchov's record dictates that he be treated with respect. Gesink's has shown that he is worthy of
a growing role and I'm sure Menchov is intelligent enough to see that the young rider is the future of the team and won't make too much of a fuss. Also I do recall that Menchov fully intends to defend his Giro win so likely he will go into the Tour with at most a co-leader's roll with Menchov, likely to guide the young man since he still has yet to complete the Tour. I expect Gesink to be among the elite on all the climbs, such is his talent.

To the references to Menchov being "a waste": Come on! He's really doesn't deserve that. Only one rider can win the Tour each year. He's been in the mix
for the most part for the past 3 years or more while also contending and/or winning at the Vuelta and the Giro. Multiple grand tour winners aren't deserving of being dismissed like that. Likely he exhausted all of his energies winning the Giro this year. That is my reasoning to explain his dismal performance at the Tour this year. Same goes for Sastre. Now Evans, that's an entirely different story. :D

i din't bring it up so don't criticise me for that. others brought it up. i was just making the statement that the mangement's of S/L and RAb shouldn't dissmiss their old gc guys so easily
 
auscyclefan94 said:
i din't bring it up so don't criticise me for that. others brought it up. i was just making the statement that the mangement's of S/L and RAb shouldn't dissmiss their old gc guys so easily

Aus, I wasn't criticizing you. That's why I threw in the ;). Just teasing you a bit. Sorry you misinterpreted my message. I agree though that it is a bit premature to dismiss Menchov and Evans just because of one bad Tour. They both had good seasons otherwise.
 
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Gesink for me - less ITT kms and more hills. he's really improved the last couple of years, so he'll be one of my dark-horse picks for sure.
 
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I'm personally more for a co-leadership option, because, imo, it's a win-win option for Rabobank. Either if Menchov repeats an awful Tour like last year's or Gesink shows lack of ... (fill with forces, experience, etc) they still would have a second contender for a top 10, 5 and even a podium. So, why not?
 
Cogombre said:
I'm personally more for a co-leadership option, because, imo, it's a win-win option for Rabobank. Either if Menchov repeats an awful Tour like last year's or Gesink shows lack of ... (fill with forces, experience, etc) they still would have a second contender for a top 10, 5 and even a podium. So, why not?

Usually before a team bestows co-leader or leader status on a young up and coming rider for the Tour its after they have a completed Tour under their belt. Gesink, while he's completed 2 Vuelta's (I believe), he still hasn't completed a Tour yet. I think it would better to give him a role similar to the one Contador had going into the 2007 Tour, where Leipheimer was the leader and Contador was essentially given free reign to a certain degree, with the plan to simply see how he would do. Of course the rest is history. Less pressure on Gesink while he continues to learn from the veteran Menchov.
 
Slightly OT-- if Gesink is on the Tour list, what will he do in May? He won't do the Giro AND the Tour? Where I'm going with this is, will I get to see him at the ToC? Gesink could give Retirement Shack fits.
 
BeachBum said:
Slightly OT-- if Gesink is on the Tour list, what will he do in May? He won't do the Giro AND the Tour? Where I'm going with this is, will I get to see him at the ToC? Gesink could give Retirement Shack fits.

Probably Gesink will have some rest/prep training in May. He'll be targeting the 3 Ardennes classics I imagine. Past two season he's started his season in California which used to be mid-February, did Paris-Nice/Tirreno, Basque Country and then the classics. Imagine he'll be doing something similar next season except of course with a different starting race. I think it's be too much to ask to do all those races, go to California for two weeks or so, and then Dauphine, Dutch Championships and then have a good Tour.

Rabobank will certainly send a good team to California; there is so much agribusiness in California and that's right in Rabobank's (the actual bank that is) wheelhouse, but I doubt that Gesink will be among them.