getting your max HR ?

[zealot66]

Ive been riding for about 3 years but this last year was the first year I dedicated myself with goals. I rode my first century. Now Im obsessed with improving. I was a runner for years and always measure my HR for signs of improvment or gauge of exertion. Ive seen others post that they get higher HR closer to a max when running and cant seem to get it while going flat out on the bike. I dont know why this is ? muscle failure ? will some extra strength training help ? ( I know there are heated debates on this )

What would be a good plan in an hour workout to try and achieve a maximum heart rate training zone towards the end of the workout ? Thanks from a novice

 

[Tapeworm]

HR, unfortunately, is an inconsistent measure of effort. There are many factors which can elevate HR whilst making no difference to the effort being put out. It is in this regard that power is a better metric.

That being said we don't all have a PM and plenty of people have trained well without them. To improve your performance a structured training program will always yield better results than just generally training. Though if you want to DYI trainng then one of the most effective workouts you can
do are the 2 x 20mins. These are done at a pace you could just hold for an hour (your functional thereshold power - FTP).

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Ive been riding for about 3 years but this last year was the first year I dedicated myself with goals. I rode my first century. Now Im obsessed with improving. I was a runner for years and always measure my HR for signs of improvment or gauge of exertion. Ive seen others post that they get higher HR closer to a max when running and cant seem to get it while going flat out on the bike. I dont know why this is ? muscle failure ? will some extra strength training help ? ( I know there are heated debates on this )

What would be a good plan in an hour workout to try and achieve a maximum heart rate training zone towards the end of the workout ? Thanks from a novice

Many physiological responses are exercise modality specific. It is not uncommon for Max HR to vary from running to cycling or other aerobic endurance activity. To some extent it depends on how much of each activity you do.

HR per se is a gauge of intensity but it is not an indicator of fitness or changes in fitness.

As to what will induce max HR - going very hard will do that. You don't need a specific workout. I'm not sure that such a training goal is necessarily going to be all that effective anyway as the most important adaptations come from riding sub-maximally.

 

[Oldman]

Many physiological responses are exercise modality specific. It is not uncommon for Max HR to vary from running to cycling or other aerobic endurance activity. To some extent it depends on how much of each activity you do.

HR per se is a gauge of intensity but it is not an indicator of fitness or changes in fitness.

As to what will induce max HR - going very hard will do that. You don't need a specific workout. I'm not sure that such a training goal is necessarily going to be all that effective anyway as the most important adaptations come from riding sub-maximally.

Are you looking to establish a "maximal" heart rate? Alex is correct but you can create a cycling scenario that will give you a relevant heart rate. Most coaches have some test that will ususally establish a level during VO2 max testing. If you wonder for yourself just ride at a high cadence tempo into the tallest, steepest hill you can find and go til you blow.

 

[vladkips]

Many physiological responses are exercise modality specific. It is not uncommon for Max HR to vary from running to cycling or other aerobic endurance activity. To some extent it depends on how much of each activity you do.

Agree with above. Efficiency contributes quite a lot to HR. Mode of activity also has some bearing. Running involves all the body in an upright position, cycling is principally the lower half of the body and seated. Jump out of the saddle with a HR monitor on and see your HR go up a few beats (after a slight lag) even if workload stays the same. As an undergrad we used to do experiments on the same person in different activity modes (bike ergo, treadmill, rowing ergo). Leaving out training status, treadmill had the highest max HR, whereas bike and rowing were in the order of 3-5% lower.

 

[Laszlo]

Many physiological responses are exercise modality specific. It is not uncommon for Max HR to vary from running to cycling or other aerobic endurance activity. To some extent it depends on how much of each activity you do.

HR per se is a gauge of intensity but it is not an indicator of fitness or changes in fitness.

As to what will induce max HR - going very hard will do that. You don't need a specific workout. I'm not sure that such a training goal is necessarily going to be all that effective anyway as the most important adaptations come from riding sub-maximally.

I think the workout has to be adjusted to balance a ability to cycle-through the exercise without overstraining to muscular requirement- taking a 60t12 gearing up a 20% slope might cause a max heart rate to appear, as might having to lift 500kgs overhead; but my guess is that a higher heart rate will be achieved using a much smaller gear up that hill. Maximum HR is fairly meaningless in my experience; I use HR to measure or control a sustainable effort.

 

[Rock7586]

I agree, as an elite runner and cyclist, running will give you a higher number with a lower RPE (rate of perceeved excertion 1 -10 some go to 20). On a bike I would max out at 218bpm, for less than 30 seconds RPE 10. And I could hold 218 for 20 minutes running RPE first leg of run bike duathalon (8.5 - 9)

As for an hour long training session, that would depend on what the goal event was.

What is the goal event?

Reguardless the biggest bang for the buck in training time is going to be working the aerobic power. AKA increasing the ammount of work you can do at a sustainable HR.

 

[zealot66]

most of my training is trying to increase the intesity I can hold for 90 minutes. (My usual amount of time available ). I am seeing results slowly in the speed I can maintain doing this. Im looking at my HR progressively. Avg mph and heart rate at certain portions of the course to see if I am more effectively adapting.

So the gist Im getting is HR is relative and the results of speed and watts maintained are where the improvement is most going to come.

 

[trainee sports science coach]

After a few attempts of trying to get to your techniqual maximum heart rate(220 - age) it could be your body is trying to tell you something. It dosnt want to work that hard just yet. if your using a heart rate monitor, try using 80-90% of the highest heart rate you see and hold it for as long as you can. This way there will be less force on your knee that may not of had time to get stronger . It will also strengthen your cardio system so over a few traiing sessions it be able to cope with larger stress. i.e higher maxmum heart rate

hope a few ideas help

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

After a few attempts of trying to get to your techniqual maximum heart rate(220 - age) it could be your body is trying to tell you something. It dosnt want to work that hard just yet. if your using a heart rate monitor, try using 80-90% of the highest heart rate you see and hold it for as long as you can. This way there will be less force on your knee that may not of had time to get stronger . It will also strengthen your cardio system so over a few traiing sessions it be able to cope with larger stress. i.e higher maxmum heart rate

hope a few ideas help

Well the forces in endurance cycling are already pretty low (less than walking up stairs for instance), so I'm not sure about the "less force on the knees" bit. Whatever, strength is not a limiter in EC.

And as cardiovascular fitness improves, heart stroke volume generally increases and often maximal HR attainable reduces a little.

To attain a max, either do a ramp test to exhaustion, with power increasing at a linear rate per minute (e.g. 20-25W/min) or head up a longish hill, ride a very solid/hard pace and sprint the last 100-200 metres and take a reading immediately after that.

Of course it makes sense to ensure you are sufficiently healthy to stress yourself in such a manner. So if in any doubt, or you have a history of health/heart problems, over 35 years old, are/have been a smoker etc, then consult a medical professional first.

 

[Laszlo]

most of my training is trying to increase the intesity I can hold for 90 minutes. (My usual amount of time available ). I am seeing results slowly in the speed I can maintain doing this. Im looking at my HR progressively. Avg mph and heart rate at certain portions of the course to see if I am more effectively adapting.

So the gist Im getting is HR is relative and the results of speed and watts maintained are where the improvement is most going to come.

I have found that HR goes up as the temperature goes down and the ability ( that is, ones speed ) decreases as well. Train hard in the winter, then start flying in the spring as the temp gets better; it is a very rewarding experience. Still, HR monitoring is meaningless without context- there are no "HR races"- it is what you are doing that HR is a byproduct indicator of, and perhaps a limiting factor. Training hard for 90 min is nearly ideal in my opinion for almost everything but endurance; that is practically a different ballpark all together

 

[zealot66]

Training hard for 90 min is nearly ideal in my opinion for almost everything but endurance; that is practically a different ballpark all together


Can you expand on that ?

 

[Laszlo]

Happy too; I think that a 90 min or so workout provides for a brief warm up; followed by maximal efforts that will demand more efficient activity, could be peddaling technique, breathing, position, mental focus or mental distancing etc.; the goal will be to improve a time for a set course. An hour or so ( 90 min)- I think is about enough to burn off the blood sugar without having to recruit glycogen from stored body fat, and without getting into excessive water-loss. Going longer means taking ones efforts down a notch or two in order to sustain the activity, and then gets into factors where replacement of body stores becomes an issue. Intense riding for prolonged periods causes accumulated fatigue (overtraining effect)- that is usually very detrimental in terms of performance and even overall health. Endurance riding needs to be practiced just as intensity does in order to increase an ability; but my experience is the most benefit is gained with a limited period of very-intense activity. The only question is, what do you want to achieve ?

 

[vladkips]

Happy too; I think that a 90 min or so workout provides for a brief warm up; followed by maximal efforts that will demand more efficient activity, could be peddaling technique, breathing, position, mental focus or mental distancing etc.; the goal will be to improve a time for a set course. An hour or so ( 90 min)- I think is about enough to burn off the blood sugar without having to recruit glycogen from stored body fat, and without getting into excessive water-loss. Going longer means taking ones efforts down a notch or two in order to sustain the activity, and then gets into factors where replacement of body stores becomes an issue. Intense riding for prolonged periods causes accumulated fatigue (overtraining effect)- that is usually very detrimental in terms of performance and even overall health. Endurance riding needs to be practiced just as intensity does in order to increase an ability; but my experience is the most benefit is gained with a limited period of very-intense activity. The only question is, what do you want to achieve ?

I agree with this and use the sentiment in my own training, albeit with less structure. I try and throw in one longer ride per week (3-5hrs) to try and boost endurance. I have found this system to work quite well in races up to 2.5hrs. Beyond this, the lack of endurance starts to become apparent.

 

[zealot66]

my goal is modest. To make the most out of this winter. Ill be doing most of my training here on out on a trainer. I intend to destroy it. Get with the 'peleton' in spring and try on my racing jersey. I just want to be in the pack for cat 5 races and have fun. Ive been an athlete most of my life and at 36, my other sports are done and I feel that cyclists can have longevity with health and other than crashes, low impact fitness. Plus, I think its cool. And someone on here mentioned that they have never suffered as much as they did riding races although they had done other endurance sports. I really thrive on that because I love to strengthen my will as that what did me good stead in my other sports.

 

[Laszlo]

get on your trainer every day unless you go out for a longer ride- do 1 hour steady fast after a brief warm up; record your distance- next day repeat and try to beat that distance; within a month you will be at a level much higher than when you started ( your increase in distance will evidence this ). Basic rule once you start you don't stop till the hour is over; outdoor ride must be longer than 1 hour and further than your best 1 hour distance ( but can be an easy recovery ride pace). Try to set the trainer session at the same time in the morning, and no more than once a day either ( go outside if you want to ride more ).Try that for one month and see the results.

 

[zealot66]

thanks for the good advice. Some forums they treat new people like s!@#$

 

[Laszlo]

I guess that's why we're here and not there. Yeah, regarding the training regime on the rollers, for the first week or two it might be quite brutal; if it is, try to pace for a 30 min set; then when you feel comfortable with that try increasing it till you get to the hour mark. It is also helpful to focus on 5 km sets, that is, your average time to do 5 kms, and use that for pacing, gain 3 sec. or so on each set and you'll have gone further in an hour that you did before, also you have about 2 min or so anaerobic capability at the very end so at about 58 min start to rip it up for the finale ! just don't blow up, don't stop right away ( easy roll for a cool down ) or you might just pass out ( be prepared just in case ). If you have a heart-rate monitor use it to learn what you can sustain without blowing up; and also know that you can do brief anerobic efforts to gain time on each 5km set. Keep it up and establish a baseline that you can improve on and results will very soon become apparent.

 

[Nick777]

Ive been riding for about 3 years but this last year was the first year I dedicated myself with goals. I rode my first century. Now Im obsessed with improving. I was a runner for years and always measure my HR for signs of improvment or gauge of exertion. Ive seen others post that they get higher HR closer to a max when running and cant seem to get it while going flat out on the bike. I dont know why this is ? muscle failure ? will some extra strength training help ? ( I know there are heated debates on this )

What would be a good plan in an hour workout to try and achieve a maximum heart rate training zone towards the end of the workout ? Thanks from a novice

Running is full weight bearing. It's as simple as that.

To achieve max HR on a bike, warm up for 20-30 mins, including a few 30 second moderate efforts, then do 6 x 2 min repeats up a hill that you can ride in the big chain ring (say the 53/18), gradually increasing your effort on each one, so that the last one is absolutely all out.