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Giant-Shimano

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pmcg76

Mar 6, 2009
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I don't know if anybody realises this but Ginat-Shimano are the second most winning team in 2014 to date yet they seem to generate no real level of abuse in the Clinic which is unusual. Have won Ghent-Wevelgem, 2nd in Roubaix. Green jersey at the Tour.

The only rider on the team with any links to possible doping that I know about is Kittel and his Blood-UV treatment when he was 18 yet he can be outspoken on doping at times.

On their staff they have Rudi Kemna who admitted on his own free will to doping and served a suspension. There is also Addy Engels who rode for Rabobank/Quick Step for most of the 00s but no doping connections otherwise. The rest of the staff I don't know at all, they all seem to have come form the amateur levels. Maybe some Dutchies can enlighten us on their staff.

They have a lot of young riders as well and seem to focus on developing young riders rather than signing names. They also are supposed to have a strict anti-doping policy but don't go around shouting about it. Founder member of MPCC for what it's worth.

Is there a World Tour team with less doping connection than Argos-Shimano yet they have 15 victories already this season?
 
classicomano

classicomano

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Concerning the pro peleton at the time, im pretty sure Addy Engels and Rudi Kemna were about as clean as they come.

Besides, they're excelling at flat sprints and some TT's in smaller races. Not exactly the type of victories that are gonna set off alarm bells.
 
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Dazed and Confused

Jan 27, 2012
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Erik_Zabel.jpg

Yea, sprinters never dope. Doesn't benefit them.

I find Kittel pretty suspicious, particular after his TT performance in the tour last year (hilly).

Its almost impossible to come 2nd in PR without juicing imo.
 
classicomano

classicomano

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This is the statement Engels gave when the whole Rabobank thing exploded over here. (translated)

Nobody ever talked about it openly. Definetly not at the table. And if you didnt go after it yourself, you really had nothing to do with it. Nobody ever took me by the hand, nobody explained to me what the possibilities were. If i'd gone to Leinders with the question if I could go down that road, he wouldve probably been open to it. But I never did that. I wouldnt have been suited for it: I just dont like doing things that are not allowed. And id be worried about possible health risks. Stuff like that brings allot of stress, those few extra %'s that I wouldve gained, I would probably lose mentally.
Click to expand...
 
Afrank

Afrank

Aug 16, 2011
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pmcg76 said:
I don't know if anybody realises this but Ginat-Shimano are the second most winning team in 2014 to date yet they seem to generate no real level of abuse in the Clinic which is unusual. Have won Ghent-Wevelgem, 2nd in Roubaix. Green jersey at the Tour.
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Do you mean at Paris-Nice?
 
42x16ss

42x16ss

May 23, 2009
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They've really only done 1 or 2 things well in recent years and before that, they were fairly weak, even for a Pro Conti team.

If you look at how they are going, Kittel is dominating flat sprints, Degenkolb is good at the hilly sprints (and was always regarded as a MAJOR talent, even from juniors) and Dumoulin is getting some solid results in prologues and shorter, technical TT's. It's not like they are smashing everything they are entering or drilling the pace on the front from 30km out like HTC used to...
 
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pmcg76

Mar 6, 2009
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Afrank said:
Do you mean at Paris-Nice?
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No that should read 4 stages at the Tour, not green jersey. Got mixed up with Cav when I wrote that.

I am not really throwing anything at this team, in fact I really like them. I am just wondering in a place where a lot of people think winning=doping, how is it that they have received so little flak. There is a thread about OPQS who have the most wins so far this season so why no thread about this team who are next in line. No I am not a OPQS fanboy before some idiot comes with that silly argument, couldn't care less about them.

If Giant-Shimano are a clean team, then that would reflect a huge change in the doping culture in the sport which is again something that many here seem to be dismissive about.

As I pointed out, they have very little links to doping and most of their set-up apart from Kemna/Engels come from outside the pro ranks which is something many view as necessary for changing the culture of the sport. Surely if people were looking at a team that might be clean, Giant-Shimano would be great candidates for that role.
 
Netserk

Netserk

Apr 30, 2011
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I have no doubt that some of the riders on the team dopes, but the team itself I don't find suspicious at all. I think those who dope either does it completely without the knowledge of the team, or with the knowledge, but without any help or only minimal help (from the team, but will of course need someone).

Number of wins also don't really matter much. QS is suspicious because of the way they win, the team history/management and staff.

Most of the wins are stages (many in minor races or against weak opposition: sprint in Catalunya).

QUPrQ.jpg
 
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timmers

Sep 20, 2009
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Netserk said:
I have no doubt that some of the riders on the team dopes, but the team itself I don't find suspicious at all. I think those who dope either does it completely without the knowledge of the team, or with the knowledge, but without any help or only minimal help (from the team, but will of course need someone).

Number of wins also don't really matter much. QS is suspicious because of the way they win, the team history/management and staff.

Most of the wins are stages (many in minor races or against weak opposition: sprint in Catalunya).

QUPrQ.jpg
Click to expand...

Right so because everyone dopes some in Giant/Shimano are but I am not sure who they are but they must be doing it and the team might be involved but might not be as I am not sure but they must be cheaters due to QS!!

Why the **** do you post as you obviously don't follow the sport!!!
 
Netserk

Netserk

Apr 30, 2011
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timmers said:
Right so because everyone dopes some in Giant/Shimano are but I am not sure who they are but they must be doing it and the team might be involved but might not be as I am not sure but they must be cheaters due to QS!!

Why the **** do you post as you obviously don't follow the sport!!!
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What the **** are you talking about?

I don't think everyone dopes.
I do think at least both Degenkolb and Kittel are charged.
It has **** all to do with QS.
I don't think the team is as involved (or at all) as many other teams.

Get a ****ing grip and learn to read and comprehend what is written.
 
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Ferminal

Jul 3, 2009
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Can we seriously get over talking in terms of a whole team? I know it's important to not let anyone slip through the cracks but systematic, top-down, team-wide doping in a WT team isn't likely.

Can't we just come out and say it? It's Degenkolb and Kittel who we're thinking of. I'm not sure if they dope but it's worth talking about, it would be good to know a little more about the system they came up through and who has the most influence. Is it national coaches, TET, or personal mentors?
 
Netserk

Netserk

Apr 30, 2011
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Ferminal said:
Can we seriously get over talking in terms of a whole team? I know it's important to not let anyone slip through the cracks but systematic, top-down, team-wide doping in a WT team isn't likely.
Click to expand...

I don't know. Some teams certainly do seem to at least facilitate doping, or having a team-program, depending on one's definition of such.

I do agree that most teams don't, or perhaps only help out the big stars on the team.
 
blackcat

blackcat

Mar 13, 2009
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Netserk said:
What the **** are you talking about?

I don't think everyone dopes.
I do think at least both Degenkolb and Kittel are charged.
It has **** all to do with QS.
I don't think the team is as involved (or at all) as many other teams.

Get a ****ing grip and learn to read and comprehend what is written.
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degenkolb could sure use some of Wigans and Froome's weightloss gear eh
 
blackcat

blackcat

Mar 13, 2009
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Netserk said:
What do you think of his head?

HTC days:

bettiniphoto_0083637_1_full_600.jpg


Hsb6u.jpg


This year:

20144413_223238_670.jpg


kSoKh.jpg


Now I don't have a pic of him as a kid, but what's the verdict?
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hitch will snipe me if i quote.

i would prefer just to take an industry(peloton) wide sample, and compare it to 1980.
 
blackcat

blackcat

Mar 13, 2009
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think the salient question is, why do they all look like male models now.

respectable notable exceptions being wigans and froome
 
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