Gilbert warned for irregular blood values

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May 28, 2012
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The Hitch said:
Im assuming the es commentators mentioned are the Portuguese ones and not harmonn who has spent the last 2 years reminding everyone none stop that Gilbert is a 100% clean rider.
I believe it was mentioned by Danny Nelissen(Dutch ES) in a late night show during the Tour, but I thougt he wasn't being serious.
Haven't heard from any other source so it's probably a rumour. Although I wouldn't be surprised if it's another (failed) cover-up by the UCI like Contador's.
 
Pentacycle said:
I believe it was mentioned by Danny Nelissen(Dutch ES) in a late night show during the Tour, but I thougt he wasn't being serious.
Haven't heard from any other source so it's probably a rumour. Although I wouldn't be surprised if it's another (failed) cover-up by the UCI like Contador's.
Honestly, if there's a cover up Danny Nelissen is the last guy I'd expect to uncover it.
 
hrotha said:
Honestly, if there's a cover up Danny Nelissen is the last guy I'd expect to uncover it.
There was a pretty similar rumor early this year about a warning, in March or something like that.

Also some "forum crackpots" may or may have not written about it around the same time.

Without confirmation it falls into educated guess territory.
 
Jul 10, 2010
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zigmeister said:
Like a good source.

But, is it any surprise this could be true?

Look at his "amazing" results last year. And now...terrible in every classic but one.

Same thing has happened with other riders. Hushovd come to mind...oh, and Cadel this year.

Now he has consulted with the "doctors" and he is "fatigued".

Yeah Cadel, you just can't recover as quickly once you are off the juice at 37yrs old.

Or maybe he has a "virus".

Gilbert was doping last year, no doubt.
I don't agree about Cadel. He's had consistently good results, year after year. He just didn't win. Last year his stars were in the right position, so to speak. He finally got the lucky breaks at the same time he was on good form. And, the competition was on a bad year. I think this says more about the competition than it does about Cadel. It's kinda like Menchov - if he finally got a year where most of the big competition wasn't in the tour, and he got the lucky breaks, he could do the same thing.
 
Jun 14, 2012
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If I recall correctly, Gilbert won mostly by having explosive acceleration on uphill finishes. What kind of PED would help him, and how would it cause a suspicious variation in blood values (which values?) without returning an analytical positive?
 
Epicycle said:
I'm for the biopassport but I think if you look at it objectively an argument can be made that it's made the racing less exciting and actually increased the difference between the top guy(s) at any particular time and the rest. If the sport really wants try to get back to the pre-blood doping days of the 1980s and before, the passport will probably still have to be tightened up.
I agree the passport needs to be further tightened up. But I disagree that the biopassport has made racing less exciting. I think the effects of the biopassport were obvious in the 2011 Tour yet that was exciting. Granted that may have been due to Contador's presence - but still :D
 
Al Lesklar said:
If I recall correctly, Gilbert won mostly by having explosive acceleration on uphill finishes. What kind of PED would help him, and how would it cause a suspicious variation in blood values (which values?) without returning an analytical positive?
explosive acceleration uphill?

um, think ricco, think armstrong, think pantani...

all blood dopers.
 

iZnoGouD

BANNED
Feb 18, 2011
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Al Lesklar said:
If I recall correctly, Gilbert won mostly by having explosive acceleration on uphill finishes. What kind of PED would help him, and how would it cause a suspicious variation in blood values (which values?) without returning an analytical positive?
he is fresher when he reaches that key moment and he can hold his explosive acceleration longer...
 
Al Lesklar said:
If I recall correctly, Gilbert won mostly by having explosive acceleration on uphill finishes. What kind of PED would help him, and how would it cause a suspicious variation in blood values (which values?) without returning an analytical positive?
You actually have seen Danilo Di Luca and Riccardo Ricco racing? If yes this question seems to me like completly nonsense!
 
Jun 14, 2012
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staubsauger said:
You actually have seen Danilo Di Luca and Riccardo Ricco racing? If yes this question seems to me like completly nonsense!
Well then, what PED is Gilbert taking, and how does it affect his blood values? And why isn't he winning mountain stages?
 
Jul 13, 2010
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iZnoGouD said:
he is fresher when he reaches that key moment and he can hold his explosive acceleration longer...
This times 1000

Say ten times after me: Cycling is an aerobic sport.

If you have a naturally good anaerobic punch, that won't be improved so much by oxygen vector doping, but oxygen vector doping will enable it to still be there at the end of the race. Not saying Phil Gil is doping or not, but that's the logic and it makes plenty of sense. Or another way to go would be that even if you don't improve your aerobic capacity, you can maintain it with less training and devote more time to sprinting and anaerobic work.
 
Jul 13, 2010
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zigmeister said:
Like a good source.

But, is it any surprise this could be true?

Look at his "amazing" results last year. And now...terrible in every classic but one.

Same thing has happened with other riders. Hushovd come to mind...oh, and Cadel this year.

Now he has consulted with the "doctors" and he is "fatigued".

Yeah Cadel, you just can't recover as quickly once you are off the juice at 37yrs old.

Or maybe he has a "virus".

Gilbert was doping last year, no doubt.
What are you talking about?

This is the sort of thing that gives the clinic a bad name: every single thing is part of a conspiracy, everything can be explained in terms of doping, and you can be 100% sure in every instance. I'm called Realist for a reason. I believe that the vast majority of the peloton doped throughout the last two decades. I also believe it still goes on. But did you ever think maybe Cadel has a virus? Whether or not you are doping, you can get sick, and if you ride at 100% through a virus you can get infected and then inflamed heart muscle and possibly die. So I'm not saying Cadel is clean, or that he is dirty, but that this kind of comment is absurd and unhelpful.
 
May 12, 2010
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Al Lesklar said:
Well then, what PED is Gilbert taking, and how does it affect his blood values? And why isn't he winning mountain stages?
Probably blood doping and/or EPO. Why isn't he winning mountain stages? Because he isn't a climber. Rebellin, the last rider to complete the triple, didn't win mountain stages either.
 
Gilbert's drop in performance can't be solely explained by having a minor program or by riding clean. It's not that he's not at his 2009-2011 levels - he's worse than when he rode for FDJ right now. There's got to be more to it.

It could be a Mayo-like scenario: maybe he had to cut down on the program and then he put too much pressure into himself, thinking he wouldn't be able to perform; in short, maybe he became psychologically dependent on the dope. I believe that's partly what happens with Cobo, too.

But that's still not the only factor, and judging by the way he's fought even when obviously not in form, it doesn't seem like Gilbert is the kind of rider to go through that. While the lack of proper fuel may well be a factor, I'm more inclined to think of a botched winter preparation by partying too hard (in Monaco, with Hushovd). Maybe he let his success get to his head and he thought he'd stay at that level just like that, because he's that good.

There are many variables, and dope is a very important one, but not the only one.
 

iZnoGouD

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Feb 18, 2011
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he said he understimated his dental problems he never tought it could have an impact on performance
 
Mar 26, 2011
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Can't these guys just constantly spin up their blood and inject it all year round? It sounds annoying, but at least that way you don't have giant spikes that scream doper? Will Sagan be weak next year? Is this the new pattern... you blow up the scene for a year, reap the rewards, and then do nothing for awhile until your contracts run out..
 
Jul 25, 2011
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this is bullsh!t, warned for irregular blood values?

Keep your mount shut and bust him when it gets "too irregular", no rather give potential cheaters the heads up .... another flaw in the system.

anyway, dental problems, bad winter etc etc. all excuses you don't loose talent if it was that which he was on last year, form is key yes but c'mon we're 3/4th season and he showed nothing near last years "form".
 
Mar 13, 2009
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issoisso said:
The eurosport commentators mentioned during the olympics road race that it's been made public that the UCI warned Gilbert late last year due to highly irregular blood value variations.

Three things come to mind:

1. Can anyone confirm this? Being morons they didn't mention a source. Did they make it up or is it actually the case?
2. If it is indeed the case, it surely must be linked to his massive drop in performance (well, no longer being on the same team as the miracle worker Dr. Ibarguren will of course be a cause as well)
3. If this is true why warn him instead of nailing him under the blood passport WTF?
taiwan said:
If we're honest it doesn't take a hematologist to tell he was juicing last year, just a pair of eyes and a look at the Ardennes' rolls of honour.
Taiwan is right.

But we always heard, and still hear, about PG's ethic. And clean (statust).

Besides Taiwan referencing the Rebellin trilogy in Wallone, forget that, I want to channel Moncoutie as an example. A rider always held out to be cleaner than clean. OK, he has won no classics. But he wins a Vuelta climbing jersey, and can go back to back to back on successive mtn stages to grab points for the jersey.

Gilbert=Moncoutie.

2011 Gilbert, big time program. Career, lesser program.

Moncoutie, lesser program.

just my opinion.
 
Jul 6, 2010
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Nothing of import to add, except that I sure loved watching him race last year!

Clean, or not, that guy knows how to race a bike. His team was awesome in the set-ups, too...
 
wannab said:
this is bullsh!t, warned for irregular blood values?

Keep your mount shut and bust him when it gets "too irregular", no rather give potential cheaters the heads up .... another flaw in the system.
Actually if the UCI is consistent, and blood values are strongly correlated to performance enhancement, then warning people is very, very good for the sport.

But I don't think either of the conditions hold.
 
Jun 15, 2010
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hrotha said:
Honestly, if there's a cover up Danny Nelissen is the last guy I'd expect to uncover it.
Is that Danny Nelussen who was banned as a pro only to come back and win the world championship as an amateur.
 
simo1733 said:
Is that Danny Nelussen who was banned as a pro only to come back and win the world championship as an amateur.
Actually, and this is slightly off-topic, Nelissen was never suspended. While riding as s pro in 1994 a heart condition (arrhythmia) was diagnosed and he had no other choice but returning at amateur level because nobody would offer him a pro contract. In 1998 the same heart condition finally forced him into retirement.

Although he rode for PDM and TVM I have never heard any stories that his arrhythmia might be in any way connected to PED-use.

Regards
GJ
 

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