Giro 2012: Route Rumours / Our wishes

[Descender]

Madeline and Bagneres de Lucheon most exciting stages of last years Tour.

Gap and Pinerrolo arguably most exciting stages of this years one. Definately most exciting finishes.

All because of descents.

Hear, hear!

Add to that this year's Vuelta stage to Cordoba, the Grappa stage of the 2010 Giro... and there are plenty of other examples outside of GTs, like the queen stage of this year's Tour de Suisse.

 

[Havetts]

I think, well am pretty sure, that Hitch liked those stages cause Samu & Contador tried to spice things up. Personally I didnt think they were the most exciting stages, although the Madeleine stage was the most exciting last year.

Dont see how they were more exciting than the stage to the L'Alpe or the Galibier honestly, but feel free to explain Hitch .

 

[Lanark]

I think, well am pretty sure, that Hitch liked those stages cause Samu & Contador tried to spice things up. Personally I didnt think they were the most exciting stages, although the Madeleine stage was the most exciting last year.

Dont see how they were more exciting than the stage to the L'Alpe or the Galibier honestly, but feel free to explain Hitch .

Exactly, the Galibier and Alpe D'Huez stages had multiple HC mountains, and still the riders attacked from far out (having much more excitement in tv-minutes compared to the Gap or Pinorolo stage). How big or small the differences are between the GC men, how much risk they are willing to take etc. are much more important than whether a stage finishes on a descent of mtf.

 

[The Hitch]

I think, well am pretty sure, that Hitch liked those stages cause Samu & Contador tried to spice things up. Personally I didnt think they were the most exciting stages, although the Madeleine stage was the most exciting last year.

Dont see how they were more exciting than the stage to the L'Alpe or the Galibier honestly, but feel free to explain Hitch

Well Samu and Contador tried to spice things up on Alpe too

So it cant be that can it

But i never said they were definately better i specifically said "arguably".

Alpe was good other than Alpe itself.

As awesome as the Great Ones attack was, it was clear everything was going to come back together for Lalpe. And NOTHING happened on Alpe. Evans said he wouldnt go to the front. Frank bizzarely didnt attack and Andy just complained that Evans wouldnt go to the front.

Real exciting

And on Galibier it was also clear Schleck was going to lose minutes on the last climb. He came in 2 minutes ahead of everyone else. Evans dropped some riders slowly, but no attacks and a lot of riders all rode together to the finish/

The finishes to Gap And Pinerolo were definately better.

Contador didnt come in 2 minutes ahead like Schleck, nor did he drop a few riders by setting a high pace like Evans.

No, he attacked (surprisingly). Came back together. Attacked, came back together. Attacked again, totaly cracking Andy. Only 3 riders made it to the top.

On the descent Evans attacked.

On Galibier there were only ever 2 groups. 1 Andy 2 Evans.

On Alpe there was only 1 group Evans, Andy Frank. And a group in front of Samu Contador Rolland for the stage.

But on Gap and Pinerolo the descents were chaotic. Evans in front of Contador Samu. Where is Andy? Where is Frank? Where is Voeckler.

no time to look. In front Hushovd EBH and Ryder are fighting for the stage.

Same on pinerolo. Chaos. No one knows where anyone is. A few riders includng the Mailot Jaune crash into a garden. Riders wheels rise up of the ground as they skid. In front, another battle for the stage.

Personally I prefer races where many major riders are in different groups and a lot is going on, to ones where all the favourites are riding together in 1 or 2 groups, and riders get dropped not by attacks but by high pace.

Just me

 

[Ferminal]

Stages like this look good on paper but seldom result in anything more then a bunch of guys missing the time cut

Like this year's stages to Gardeccia and Lautaret-Galibier?

 

[jsem94]

It sucks that there's another 8 months of wait or so til the Giro.

 

[Lupetto]

Madeline and Bagneres de Lucheon most exciting stages of last years Tour.

Gap and Pinerrolo arguably most exciting stages of this years one. Definately most exciting finishes.

All because of descents.

Looks like the traditional stage in the dolomites won't have a mtf. Tre Cime are out.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

The best format is big, horrible, steep mountain followed by technical descent followed by either an easy climb or a short but steep climb to finish. Pontechianale 2003, Sestrières 2005, Aprica 2010, Rifugio Gardeccia 2011 are all examples of this "put the big climb some way out but have the finish also uphill" fashion. Aprica on its own is a pretty worthless climb, only averaging 3%. But put it after the Mortirolo, after everybody's legs have been sapped of every ounce of strength, and the pain of going uphill again after such a tortuous journey means that this easy climb creates gaps that sometimes genuine HC climbs do not - the Arroyo/Evans/Vino/Sastre/Gadret group lost over 2 minutes to the leading trio there. And the stories are only ever longer, because often the riders are alone on climbs like the Mortirolo, then you have the descent. Descending should always be a part of cycling. Who could forget Savoldelli's chase in 2005 (and of course, the final climb was more drama as Rujano dropped Simoni and di Luca fell back with cramps)? That Mortirolo descent by David Arroyo is more memorable and watchable than the climb! That was truly a great descender clinging fast to a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, and making other good descenders like Evans and Vino look like complete fools.

Now, there should ALWAYS be mountain top finishes, and preferably one or two on big hors catégorie climbs. Remember that the Aprica stage in 2010 would have been nothing without Zoncolán, because that truly shaped who had to get time and what time they needed, and defending there and on Kronplatz is what made it all possible - if they hadn't needed maximum time from Arroyo, the Liquigas duo could have raced much more conservatively - and if they hadn't already lost time to Basso on Zoncolán then other riders would have chased down attacks and kept the racing cagey.

There should always be a mixture of mountain stages, some with big MTFs, some with small ones after other climbs, some with descent finishes. After all, the "big climactic MTF" to Mont Ventoux in 2009 was pretty much a non-event, whereas the descent finish into Le Grand Bornand was the only thing that resembled great racing in that edition save for Haussler's epic solo into Colmar.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

The best format is big, horrible, steep mountain followed by technical descent followed by either an easy climb or a short but steep climb to finish. Pontechianale 2003, Sestrières 2005, Aprica 2010, Rifugio Gardeccia 2011 are all examples of this "put the big climb some way out but have the finish also uphill" fashion. Aprica on its own is a pretty worthless climb, only averaging 3%. But put it after the Mortirolo, after everybody's legs have been sapped of every ounce of strength, and the pain of going uphill again after such a tortuous journey means that this easy climb creates gaps that sometimes genuine HC climbs do not - the Arroyo/Evans/Vino/Sastre/Gadret group lost over 2 minutes to the leading trio there. And the stories are only ever longer, because often the riders are alone on climbs like the Mortirolo, then you have the descent. Descending should always be a part of cycling. Who could forget Savoldelli's chase in 2005 (and of course, the final climb was more drama as Rujano dropped Simoni and di Luca fell back with cramps)? That Mortirolo descent by David Arroyo is more memorable and watchable than the climb! That was truly a great descender clinging fast to a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, and making other good descenders like Evans and Vino look like complete fools.

Now, there should ALWAYS be mountain top finishes, and preferably one or two on big hors catégorie climbs. Remember that the Aprica stage in 2010 would have been nothing without Zoncolán, because that truly shaped who had to get time and what time they needed, and defending there and on Kronplatz is what made it all possible - if they hadn't needed maximum time from Arroyo, the Liquigas duo could have raced much more conservatively - and if they hadn't already lost time to Basso on Zoncolán then other riders would have chased down attacks and kept the racing cagey.

There should always be a mixture of mountain stages, some with big MTFs, some with small ones after other climbs, some with descent finishes. After all, the "big climactic MTF" to Mont Ventoux in 2009 was pretty much a non-event, whereas the descent finish into Le Grand Bornand was the only thing that resembled great racing in that edition save for Haussler's epic solo into Colmar.

Have you been drinking?

 

[The Hitch]

Rifugio Gardeccia 2011 are all examples of this "put the big climb some way out but have the finish also uphill" fashion.

I know you love Marmolada but Gardeccia is no little brother to Fedaia and Giau (im assuming your talking about these not Piancavolo as the major climb).

It is slightly shorter but steeper. If you take away the 3% first half of Fedaia you get 8km at about 9%.

Gardeccia is 6.5km at 9.2%

And Gardeccia fluctuated as much as Fedaia.

It had its unpaved sections too.

Saying Gardeccia was a easier climb, or a short sharp finish to Fedia or Giau, is like saying that Alpe was a short sharp finish to Galibier.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I was thinking of Giau+Fedaia rather than either climb in isolation. Gardeccia on its own is not a great deal tougher than Peña Cabarga. But after those climbs and that distance in that weather, it's pure distilled evil.

 

[The Hitch]

I was thinking of Giau+Fedaia rather than either climb in isolation. Gardeccia on its own is not a great deal tougher than Peña Cabarga. But after those climbs and that distance in that weather, it's pure distilled evil.

Well then thats 2 climbs in a row (or even 3 or 4) not one big one

Its not the 1 big climb followed by major descent of that climb, followed by lesser climb format.

Its something completely different - 5 catergory 1 climbs in 1 stage.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Well then thats 2 climbs in a row (or even 3 or 4) not one big one

Its not the 1 big climb followed by major descent of that climb, followed by lesser climb format.

Its something completely different - 5 catergory 1 climbs in 1 stage.

And even if it's not so small in comparison, it's still Fedaia's little brother. She is the queen of the Dolomites.

6,5km is not a great deal for a climb. It's a lesser climb than the ones that preceded it. Not as much lesser as Sestrières after Finestre or Aprica after Mortirolo, but it is a smaller climb following a bunch of epics. I'm sure it will have a chance to forge its own identity given time, but for now it's the kid brother.

 

[LukeSchmid]

Yes I am.

MTFs are a pest in today's cycling and finishes after a descent are best suited as the last stages of a mountain bloc or a GT, as they encourage movements from far away. See Mortirolo-Aprica 2010 (not a true descent finish but that concept works wonders as well).

I think there should be plenty of descents, either to the finish or to the base of a short final climb that can have a huge impact on who wins the stage and gains time. I think that something like 1 good descent moutain stage to evey two hard MTF finishes. Brilliant decenders should be rewarded and bad descenders punished. Also 2 TTs of a good length are needed in a GT.

 

[Eshnar]

Tuttosport confirms the rumours about stage 19...

Treviso - Alpe Di Pampeago, 184 kms

Passo Manghen, Passo Di Pampeago (I traced it by hand, so the profile is not exact), Passo Lavazè and the final 4 kms of L'Alpe Di Pampeago.

 

[jens_attacks]

wow zomegnan would be proud of this,i wonder if this stage it's his work because i've heard that when he was in charge they already designed il giro until the year 2013 if i remember correctly.
awesome stage,i love manghen so i hope it's all real.

 

[Eshnar]

wow zomegnan would be proud of this,i wonder if this stage it's his work because i've heard that when he was in charge they already designed il giro until the year 2013 if i remember correctly.

It's true, but Vegni already cancelled most of his design (Alpe D'Huez, Calvanico...) so I don't know who owns the rights of this stage

 

[Eshnar]

In an italian forum they say stage 17 will finish at S.Vito, about 10 kms after Cortina (=after the descent of Giau).
Updating first post...

 

[Lupetto]

Updating first post...

I like this route so far.

 

[Eshnar]

I like this route so far.

If there's the long ITT we all are asking for, to me this is a 9/10.
Much better than last year.
If there's not the ITT, I guess 7/10...

 

[Descender]

Tuttosport confirms the rumours about stage 19...

Treviso - Alpe Di Pampeago, 184 kms

Passo Manghen, Passo Di Pampeago (I traced it by hand, so the profile is not exact), Passo Lavazè and the final 4 kms of L'Alpe Di Pampeago.

This stage is better than the Stelvio one and should come after it.

 

[Dancing On The Pedals]

Sounds like Fuglsang isn't a fan of the penultimate stage...
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/fuglsang-critical-of-2012-giro-ditalias-penultimate-stage

 

[Kvinto]

Sounds like Fuglsang isn't a fan of the penultimate stage...
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/fuglsang-critical-of-2012-giro-ditalias-penultimate-stage

I'd like to listen what David Millar would say about this, he likes to criticize Giro's route

 

[spalco]

Sounds like Fuglsang isn't a fan of the penultimate stage...
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/fuglsang-critical-of-2012-giro-ditalias-penultimate-stage

I'm so tired of cyclists *****ing and crying about the routes of races. Do something else if you don't want to ride it. Otherwise shut up and do your job, you're getting paid well enough to do it.

 

[Zoetemelk-fan]

Sounds like Fuglsang isn't a fan of the penultimate stage...
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/fuglsang-critical-of-2012-giro-ditalias-penultimate-stage

Fuglsang crying? Hah! Business as usual.