Giro del Trentino 2012

[hrotha]

So he isn't so touchy as 99% cyclingfans, that's really good for him. He may as well say by that that Rujano was so good that he can't comment that.

Do you really think that's the most likely explanation?

Theoretically, it's possible, although that'd still make him a PR moron. But it's so unlikely as to barely register as a possibility. And you know this perfectly well.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

so he isn't so touchy as 99% cyclingfans, that's really good for him. he may as well say by that that rujano was so good that he can't comment that.

lol

......................

 

[Kokoso]

Do you really think that's the most likely explanation?

Theoretically, it's possible, although that'd still make him a PR moron. But it's so unlikely as to barely register as a possibility. And you know this perfectly well.

He's PR moron, at least he used to be, that's definitely true. This year becoming slightly better.
What I lknow perfectly is that even if you consede that he would imply Rujano doping by that, you absolutely can't be sure about that, nobody can be sure. And if you can't be sure about that, there always is presumption of innocence and that's it, that's solution of whole this thing.

 

[will10]

It's pretty obvious what Kreuziger meant.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

He's PR moron, at least he used to be, that's definitely true. This year becoming slightly better.
What I lknow perfectly is that even if you consede that he would imply Rujano doping by that, you absolutely can't be sure about that, nobody can be sure. And if you can't be sure about that, there always is presumption of innocence and that's it, that's solution of whole this thing.

He is not bob dylan.if you know what i mean

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

He's PR moron, at least he used to be, that's definitely true. This year becoming slightly better.
What I lknow perfectly is that even if you consede that he would imply Rujano doping by that, you absolutely can't be sure about that, nobody can be sure. And if you can't be sure about that, there always is presumption of innocence and that's it, that's solution of whole this thing.

EVERYBODY thinks he meant doping. except you. who do you think is right then?

 

[Kokoso]

He is not bob dylan.if you know what i mean

Don't know...what?

 

[hrotha]

He's PR moron, at least he used to be, that's definitely true. This year becoming slightly better.
What I lknow perfectly is that even if you consede that he would imply Rujano doping by that, you absolutely can't be sure about that, nobody can be sure. And if you can't be sure about that, there always is presumption of innocence and that's it, that's solution of whole this thing.

This isn't a court. Everyday life doesn't operate by those rules.

 

[Kokoso]

EVERYBODY thinks he meant doping. except you. who do you think is right then?

What is this paralogical argument? Most of people in Soviet Union thought that Stalin is nice guy. So you say everybody? That is not true I'm sure. Majority is often wrong you know, so that proves nothing. Only sure thing is presumption of innocence in this case cause in fact we don't know and we can't know what he meant by that unless somebody asks him is given explanation - and that's all.

And nobody asked on this thus nobody was interested so much thus that could imply that not everybody thinks that btw.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Don't know...what?

My fault, i think that everyone likes bobby .....anyways... not all of us hate or dislike him for what he said but it's pretty clear he meant doping is what some of us are saying.

 

[Kokoso]

My fault, i think that everyone likes bobby .....anyways... not all of us hate or dislike him for what he said but it's pretty clear he meant doping is what some of us are saying.

I think almost everyone does As you say, but I really think he didn't mean that or at least I don't know what to think about that. But to be 100% convinced that he meant Rujano is doping is nonsense and hate him because of that is nonsense. What I understand is that people don't like him cause he has conservative style of riding.

Yeah, this isn't court and everyday life doesn't operate by those rules what is wrong and sad, cause I think there is for instance plenty of black people in States who would appreciate it now and in the past. First people should think than make conclusions and execute or it's no - brain. You can't accuse or shouldn't accuse somebody of something unless you have 100% evidence of it...but yeah I understand this is forum about cycling and it's not so serious situation but given some people base their hatred on this - that's really serious

 

[greenedge]

Ryo is just passionate about his Columbians and is maybe a bit touchy in that department- which is why he does not like Kreuziger. Each person to their own. Anyways just chill.

 

[Angliru]

Really he doesn't attack? Than you didn't see Tirreno and Trentino because he attacked in both. On Trentino he wasn't in top form and had hunger knock on Passo Pordoi and you know what that can do, see A. Schleck or Contador. Still was sixth which is good and much better compared to other Giro contenders. And tell why you think Kreuziger overrates himself, I don't understand that.

When Kreuziger and Nibali were teammates at Liquigas, Kreuziger was quite candid about what he thought of Nibali's chances in the grand tours. He felt that Nibali didn't have a big enough engine and would never win a grand tour.
This implied that he felt that he had more potential for grand tour success than Nibali, with this analysis likely based on results of whatever testing was done at Liquigas on their riders to see if they were reaching their potential. It seems to me that Nibali exceeds expectations at every turn while Kreuziger disappoints.

Edit: At the time there was bit of a power struggle at Liquigas, where they had an abundance of stage racing talent with Kreuziger, Nibali, Basso and I believe Pellizoti was there two. It was a battle he was bound to lose being the only non-Italian in this group on an Italian team.

 

[Angliru]

lol. we have a fanboy here it appears. you call that attacking? in trentino wiht 400 metres to go he went for his "sprint". in tirreno he didn't attack anywhere. he only wheelsucked horner for all he's worth. or you maye call it an attack in the stage where sagan won where he followed sagan's wheel a bit. lol

name me 5 more attacks kreuziger had done in recent years? pls I will name 5 attacks rujano did in the giro alone last year

I can only recall one and I think it was on a mountainous stage of Tour de Romandie (2009?). It was pretty impressive and led to him ultimately taking the overall too.

 

[Kokoso]

When Kreuziger and Nibali were teammates at Liquigas, Kreuziger was quite candid about what he thought of Nibali's chances in the grand tours. He felt that Nibali didn't have a big enough engine and would never win a grand tour.
This implied that he felt that he had more potential for grand tour success than Nibali, with this analysis likely based on results of whatever testing was done at Liquigas on their riders to see if they were reaching their potential. It seems to me that Nibali exceeds expectations at every turn while Kreuziger disappoints.

Edit: At the time there was bit of a power struggle at Liquigas, where they had an abundance of stage racing talent with Kreuziger, Nibali, Basso and I believe Pellizoti was there two. It was battle he was bound to lose being the only non-Italian in this group on an Italian team.

I know nothing about that he'd stated anything about Nibali's chances on GTs, maybe so, (could be based on results in that time), but I think rather by others than by himself. Yes, last year was definitely more disspointing, but change of team could play role, look a Lulu for instance and many more. 5th place in Giro was best 2011 result so far, then injury on TdF. After that first race was Strade bianche where he worked for Iglinsky yet managed to finish 6th, than 3rd place in T - A, 6th Trentino with decent performance on Punta Veleno, definitely best in category of normal human I donť know if Nibali exceeds expectations cause I don't remember somebody stating that he couldn't perform one time in future as he performs. Kreuziger had very good results very young, than he stagnated a bit, not getting worse IMO. Only those putting too big expactations were disappointed.
maybe situation in Liquigas by that time was such that he wanted to change team cause they begun to prefer Nibali as Italian, same as we could saw with Sagan recently. Maybe he hadn't conditions good enough thus stagnating...

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

I know nothing about that he'd stated anything about Nibali's chances on GTs, maybe so, (could be based on results in that time), but I think rather by others than by himself. Yes, last year was definitely more disspointing, but change of team could play role, look a Lulu for instance and many more. 5th place in Giro was best 2011 result so far, then injury on TdF. After that first race was Strade bianche where he worked for Iglinsky yet managed to finish 6th, than 3rd place in T - A, 6th Trentino with decent performance on Punta Veleno, definitely best in category of normal human I donť know if Nibali exceeds expectations cause I don't remember somebody stating that he couldn't perform one time in future as he performs. Kreuziger had very good results very young, than he stagnated a bit, not getting worse IMO. Only those putting too big expactations were disappointed.
maybe situation in Liquigas by that time was such that he wanted to change team cause they begun to prefer Nibali as Italian, same as we could saw with Sagan recently. Maybe he hadn't conditions good enough thus stagnating...

you claim to be a fan but somehow you know nothing of what kreuziger has said in teh past

still waiting for his 5 attacks btw

 

[Kokoso]

I mean he's not overrated or at least not so overrated as some say here and there. But there are definitely too big expectations what by my opinion results in feeling that he's overrated.

Any he's one and half year younger than Nibali, still very young. Let's give him some time to prove if he's capable to get on podium or even win GT. Last years fifth place in extremely diffcult Giro is sign that he is and I think so too.

 

[hrotha]

So it's not that he's overrated, but that people regularly expect more from him than he can reasonably deliver. Gotcha.

 

[Parrulo]

I mean he's not overrated or at least not so overrated as some say here and there. But there are definitely too big expectations what by my opinion results in feeling that he's overrated.

Any he's one and half year younger than Nibali, still very young. Let's give him some time to prove if he's capable to get on podium or even win GT. Last years fifth place in extremely diffcult Giro is sign that he is and I think so too.

oh is he?

Vincenzo Nibali (born November 14, 1984 in Messina)
Roman Kreuziger (Czech pronunciation: [ˈroman ˈkrojtsɪɡr̩]; born May 6, 1986)

and back to math class we go. not even 1 year. . . .

 

[Parrulo]

I mean he's not overrated or at least not so overrated as some say here and there. But there are definitely too big expectations what by my opinion results in feeling that he's overrated.

Any he's one and half year younger than Nibali, still very young. Let's give him some time to prove if he's capable to get on podium or even win GT. Last years fifth place in extremely diffcult Giro is sign that he is and I think so too.

1 year and a half ago nibali was already a GT winner with another GT podium.

atm kreuziguer's best result in a GT is what? 6th, minutes away from the podium?

over 4 minutes away from a podium spot . . .

i think the nibali vs kreuziguer debate is simply a case of one being a typical eastern european rider reaching his physical peak very early while the other rider being the more common type of GT contender improving steadily and reaching his peak around 27/28 years of age.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

I mean he's not overrated or at least not so overrated as some say here and there. But there are definitely too big expectations what by my opinion results in feeling that he's overrated.

Any he's one and half year younger than Nibali, still very young. Let's give him some time to prove if he's capable to get on podium or even win GT. Last years fifth place in extremely diffcult Giro is sign that he is and I think so too.

that is exactly what overrated means