Giro d'Italia 2011: Stage 14 Lienz to Monte Zoncolan

[No_Balls]

Regardless if they were friends, and I don't agree with you that they don't have a friendly professional relationship, the leader of the race doesn't act that way.

Defending the jersey is the only reasonably way to act. Which is what he did.

Either he attacks Nibali and bridges up to Anton from 3 ks out, or he exchanges a pull or two with the Italian, to then drop him in the end having contributed something.

That if he was driving for the stage or just wanted to control his nearest rivals. If the latter he has zero moral code to Nibali given that it isn´t Nibali wearing the pink. And. If Nibali fails to shake of the leader, poor boy.

Sitting on the wheel, while not chasing down Anton, to then attack the wheel you sat on at the top seemed too opportunistic to be considered dignified of a racer of his caliber and with his margin, to not use the word class.

Nibali failed to shake off Contador. Contador attacks a rival. What´s next on your moral list? The race itself?

 

[rhubroma]

It's a shame we didn't see the exact point where Anton went away the 2nd time but he had been making the pace with Contador on his wheel and Scarponi following. Presumably Anton upped the pace and just rode away from them. I don't see any reason why Contador wouldn't follow if he could given that Scarponi was gapped also and Nibali was behind

I think Contador was set on sticking with Scarponi at that point. Then Nibali arrived, Scarponi faded, at which point he clearly felt it more advantages to make the Italian work and see if Anton was within reach, without having to strike himself.

At a certain point Nibali was not able to make up more ground, also because Contador offered no help. And it was then that Anton (which yes showed his exceptional form today) was able to relaunch his pace, which soon increased the gap from 15 to 30 seconds, as Nibali struggled to maintain his.

Alberto lost the race at that point, which is why I don't find it very dignified that he continued to keep Nibali in front to then attack him twice in the end.

 

[rhubroma]

That if he was driving for the stage or just wanted to control his nearest rivals. If the latter he has zero moral code to Nibali given that it isn´t Nibali wearing the pink. And. If Nibali fails to shake of the leader, poor boy.

I have made all my points. Nibali, poor boy yes. However Contador was not very signorile for sure. All tactics aside.

I'd have expect more from a rider who has talent to sell. Still needs to learn about class, though.

 

[Kwibus]

I've just looked at the last 1.5km and imo it's obvious Contador wasn't that surpreme today.

He drops Nibali, but Nibali fights his way back to AC's wheel which seems to suprise Contador. Contador uses another accelaration and he's only able to open up a small gap on Nibali at the finish line.

Besides that I set my timer at the 1km mark and Anton had a 30 second lead on AC. AC attacked Nibali about 100mtr before the 1km mark so he was going all out allready. At the finish the difference is 33 seconds.
Seriously people... Contador wasn't the best today. He didn't dominate everyone and didn't play around with his competitors.
I know we all simply expect he's by far the best and usually it's like that. So it's not strange to think he's just fooling around with his competition, but today he suffered. Nothing else.

 

[Lanark]

I've just looked at the last 1.5km and imo it's obvious Contador wasn't that surpreme today.

He drops Nibali, but Nibali fights his way back to AC's wheel which seems to suprise Contador. Contador uses another accelaration and he's only able to open up a small gap on Nibali at the finish line.

Besides that I set my timer at the 1km mark and Anton had a 30 second lead on AC. AC attacked Nibali about 100mtr before the 1km mark so he was going all out allready. At the finish the difference is 33 seconds.
Seriously people... Contador wasn't the best today. He didn't dominate everyone and didn't play around with his competitors.
I know we all simply expect he's by far the best and usually it's like that. So it's not strange to think he's just fooling around with his competition, but today he suffered. Nothing else.

Agreed. I don't know why his die-hard fans are arguing otherwise. What's the alternative, he rode like a jack @ss and deliberately dropped Nibali, let him get back, and attacked him again, just to spite him? Why would he do that? Say what you want about Contador, he is always a gentleman to his competitors, he is not going to agitate the Italian crowd and Liquigas/Nibali on purpose.

The only explanation that makes sense is that he just wasn't that great, (or had a mechanical, but he would have said so after the race), the time difference between him and Anton increasing in the last K confirms that.

I don't see the problem with that. He was 'just' good today, not great. So what? He'll win the Giro by a country mile anyway, even if he was slightly less strong today than the rest of the Giro.

But that's the problem with fanboys, they'll see anything less than full praise for their heroes as a slight.

 

[marco1_79]

Great Stage.
I was disappointed by Kreuziger. He is still young bust he hasn't improved in the last two year. I wonder if he already reached his limits.
Rodriguez failed as expected.

 

[XlandaluzeX]

No, my bike got stolen when I was 4, so I never got to ride it.

Drafting is virtually useless on climbs as steep as the Zoncolan.

And to clarify: I am not a Contador fan at all. He should not be riding.

its gonna shock u but i have to say im neither a big Contador fan (but i recognize he was probably the strongest today..or at least at the same level as Anton)

yeps drafting has less impact on these kind of climbs, of course i agree, but still, having a guy in front of you putting the rythm helps, actually Nibali asked Cont to pull and work together several times !!

 

[taiwan]

Great Stage.
I was disappointed by Kreuziger. He is still young bust he hasn't improved in the last two year. I wonder if he already reached his limits.
Rodriguez failed as expected.

No way way we saw Rodriguez climbing at his best today, but you're free to gloat.

 

[Walkman]

Great Stage.
I was disappointed by Kreuziger. He is still young bust he hasn't improved in the last two year. I wonder if he already reached his limits.

Don't be too quick to judge him. He is only 25 years of age and probably has a few more years before enetering his prime. Didn't Nibbels imporved his time on the Zoncolan by two minutes from last year?

I'd say there is still room for improvement for Kreuziger.

 

[miha1234]

Does someone have information about time on Zoncolan last year?
Was Basso faster than this year Anton?

Thanks!!

 

[Chef_Vodnik]

I request:

One (1) picture, preferably high res, of that brilliant man taunting Contador with a steak on a stick.
One (1) picture or (preferably) clip of the motorbike overheating.

Thanks.

Still looking for both

 

[goggalor]

Does someone have information about time on Zoncolan last year?
Was Basso faster than this year Anton?

Thanks!!

Someone claimed he used 40 min 50 s earlier in the thread. Basso used 40:45 last year.

I think Anton was the strongest today. Maybe Contador could've stayed on his wheel if he had tried to follow when he Anton first attacked, but he was almost caught by Nibali after he attacked himself, and only took 7 seconds out of him in over a kilometer, so I doubt he could've dropped Anton. In a sprint they're pretty equal. He was definitely weaker than earlier in the Giro.

 

[Lanark]

Don't be too quick to judge him. He is only 25 years of age and probably has a few more years before enetering his prime. Didn't Nibbels imporved his time on the Zoncolan by two minutes from last year?

I'd say there is still room for improvement for Kreuziger.

I'm not sure that's really probable. Kreuziger entered the Pro scene with a bang, but his progress from the 2008 Tour untill now hasn't been great at all. Certainly if you take into account the fact that he is a junior world championship, it's not unlikely he has reached fysical maturity at a younger age. Maybe he'll improve with more experience, but I don't think it will be by much.

 

[ManInFull]

I think Contador was set on sticking with Scarponi at that point. Then Nibali arrived, Scarponi faded, at which point he clearly felt it more advantages to make the Italian work and see if Anton was within reach, without having to strike himself.

At a certain point Nibali was not able to make up more ground, also because Contador offered no help. And it was then that Anton (which yes showed his exceptional form today) was able to relaunch his pace, which soon increased the gap from 15 to 30 seconds, as Nibali struggled to maintain his.

Alberto lost the race at that point, which is why I don't find it very dignified that he continued to keep Nibali in front to then attack him twice in the end.

What's with all this feminine crap about what's a proper attack vs an improper attack? AC came in second and got time and bonus time on the riders who were sitting #2 and #3 at the start of the race. He now has to pay more attention to Anton. Nice stage for Anton and AC.

I sometimes feel that some of you want the guys to start holding hands at the 1K mark and go over the finish line together. You definitely over-analyze the race sometimes...

 

[ManInFull]

andy's wins (GTs + stage races, his specialty)=0 at 26
contador=5673254. at 28

enough said.

I don't think that AC will be competing in this year's TdF. And I also believe that Andy will find some way to lose the TdF.

 

[Galic Ho]

He didn't need to give anything to Nibali, however, he didn't need to take anything either in this situation, given everything Nibali gave out without even one pull in return. Classless.

Especially because he, at the same time, gave something to Anton, who is now as a result within seconds of Nibali.

You imply Contador took something front Nibali. He didn't. Anton did. Nibali did not go with Anton at the start of the climb. Only AC did. Then Scarponi went across to AC at great expense when he over exerted himself and blew just as Nibali bridged. IF AC wanted Nibali done and dusted he could have done it. Nibali should be greatful AC didn't truly embarass him by putting another minute on GC, against he, the great Italian hope, on his home soil once more. It's not like Nibali hasn't been copping a ribbing in the Tifosi press.

Contador gains zip from helping Nibali, he's in pink, the leader, why should he attack? It's the same thing every GT. Contador does the work and so does his team and most hope to hold on. If you want to beat him, sometime you need to shoulder the responsibility. Nibali did bloody well given his past performances. Anton attacked today and came up trumps. Is it Contadors fault he is in pink? Is it his fault Anton was the only one ahead of him today? HELL NO. Strategically the smartest thing to do was mark his opposition whoever it be. There is no drafting on a hill this steep, nice try impyling as much though.

Also nice fail ignoring the fact that by not following Anton, AC ensures another rider comes closer to second place. If everyone believes Contador is in the box seat, what are they racing for? Second, duh! Anton is almost right there after todays stage. Makes AC's job easier and Nibali far more uncertain. Why? Because now Nibali's first task is to hold second, not go for first. If he's smart, and he is, AC was probably aware that Anton was very close to taking second by the time gaps. He did the right thing by attacking at the end. He lets Nibali know he was holding back. I thought he'd go at 2km, he went with 1km left and realised it was too late, slowed too much, realised Nibali was on his wheel again and then went again to psychologically soften Nibali up. That's sport, not classless, so build your bridge and move on. AC was letting Nibali know there are two guys in formm in front of him on the road who can beat him. Makes Nibali a less imposing threat if he thinks Anton and AC can beat him. Oh and there are time bonuses on the line. Might explain the acceleration. Maybe next time you can ring AC before the stage and tell him how to race in a manner you aprove of.

Contadors rhythm and cadence was the cleanest of any rider out there. I don't think he struggled. I'm not saying it was easy either. It wasn't, but he didn't appear to be in trouble at any time. He did what he needed to do, nothing more and looked to make a statement near the end but left it too late. Not his fault. He went when Nibali slowed, if he'd gone by his own pacing Anton would have had a shadow the whole stage. But for AC that was pointless and tactically silly. Better to hold pace behind Nibali or Scarponi, whoever is the best of the two and see what damage Anton could do on GC to lighten his opposition. Smart move by AC. Anton looked pretty good too, I'm not buying that line about only being interested in stage wins. If he keeps climbing and gaining time, Scarponi, Nibali and Menchov will definitely come under threat with their chronos if Anton's cushioning gets big enough. Nibali was a lot stronger than last year. Nice work by him. Good to see Menchov coming good. I'm surprised Rodriguez wasn't so good. Oh well.

 

[Aguirre]

I don't agree with Nibali's criticism, he just rode for second place, he didn't want to attack contador but... a stage win? then, why contador should help him in his effort of distancing Scarponi?

He is not right!!!! the nibali and contador were riding in many occasions in the same pair, and suckwheeling is meaningless in zoncolan.

Contador rode today safely, Indurain-like, even Lance-like. He will do the same tomorrow, he will keep an eye on Nibali

Then smash everybody in the Nevegal TT.

Enough for winning the Giro with 4 minutes to the 2nd

 

[peloton]

Great win for Anton, good to see that after all the work his team did yesterday.

Contador, solid, but a bit surprised he chased down Anton when he attacked, when he didn't have to, and then couldn't follow him.

Nibali, probably has the best 'brain', he can control himself and get back

Scarponi, dropping his chain in the final km's, lol.

This Giro is far from over, the last week is brutal.

 

[Winterfold]

Nibali did the best he could today and I think he surprised Contador when he came back at the end, and made some diesel type moves when he came back at 4-5km. I am very impressed by his mental strength in allowing other riders to get a gap and then ride back to them at his own pace, as with Vuelta last year.

Anton was impressive, yes Contador did not attack his lead in the last 3-4km, but he made a good gap in the hardest bit of the mountain.

EDIT

just watching the last kms again, impressive does not do Anton justice at the end, he looked very smooth and comfortable on such a tough stage/finish

Scarponi fail again. You can only ride big mountains at your own pace, not someone else's

 

[Francois the Postman]

Fair point. It's not going to please everyone, but I thought he did a great ride today and did exactly what he had to do and nothing more.

He has no reason to help Nibali. None. If he had attacked earlier, he may have gone into the red and hurt himself. He took advantage of the position in which he put Nibali on previous stages and saved himself. If he had helped Nibali, he would have been roundly criticized for helping chase down a fellow countryman. Contador chose the correct course of action. He attacked when the risk was the least. It shows his maturity as a rider. I realize it's not that fun or glorious to watch, but it's the correct course of action, IMO.

That is pretty much how I read it too. Probably not having a super day, and/or aware that tomorrow and next week are still ahead of us too. I am kinda hoping that we have hit the era where people will have a bigger chance of an off-day again. Contador will remember from last Tour how quickly a safe margin can melt away if you have that day on the worst day possible.

Covering the bases, not risking the red when there is no need to, gain additional seconds when it safe to do so.

He is in the position he is in because of his attacks the other days. It is up to others to risk their standings now, if they want to beat him in-race.

And if he is seriously expecting to do the Tour on top, 'doing enough' is even more advisable.

 

[kurtinsc]

Just looked through the final results and saw that Pete Stetina had a nice ride finishing 15th on the stage, just ahead of Kreuziger.

He's been hyped for the last couple of years as a US climbing talent, but this is the first result I know of at a big race on a big climb that lends some evidence to that. Not a bad result for the 23 year old.

My assumption is that he was shepharding Le Mevel up the climb... but Stetina finished 30 seconds ahead of him. I know it wasn't shown on TV coverage, but I'd be interested to learn if he rode his own ride the whole way up, or if he was allowed to push ahead on his own at some point.

 

[rhubroma]

Agreed. I don't know why his die-hard fans are arguing otherwise. What's the alternative, he rode like a jack @ss and deliberately dropped Nibali, let him get back, and attacked him again, just to spite him? Why would he do that? Say what you want about Contador, he is always a gentleman to his competitors, he is not going to agitate the Italian crowd and Liquigas/Nibali on purpose.

The only explanation that makes sense is that he just wasn't that great, (or had a mechanical, but he would have said so after the race), the time difference between him and Anton increasing in the last K confirms that.

I don't see the problem with that. He was 'just' good today, not great. So what? He'll win the Giro by a country mile anyway, even if he was slightly less strong today than the rest of the Giro.

But that's the problem with fanboys, they'll see anything less than full praise for their heroes as a slight.

You miss the point. A rider such as Contador and in his position, needs to take a pull, before attacking, or ride in with the guy (Nibali) who pulled the whole way.

If Nibali and Contador had been within seconds of each other, Nibali would have sat up, or else the Spaniard would have had to share in the work.

Tactically what Conta did makes sense, but how he went about achieving his goals was slimy.

Not what one wants to see of a cyclist of his rank.

 

[rhubroma]

You imply Contador took something front Nibali. He didn't. Anton did. Nibali did not go with Anton at the start of the climb. Only AC did. Then Scarponi went across to AC at great expense when he over exerted himself and blew just as Nibali bridged. IF AC wanted Nibali done and dusted he could have done it. Nibali should be greatful AC didn't truly embarass him by putting another minute on GC, against he, the great Italian hope, on his home soil once more. It's not like Nibali hasn't been copping a ribbing in the Tifosi press.

Contador gains zip from helping Nibali, he's in pink, the leader, why should he attack? It's the same thing every GT. Contador does the work and so does his team and most hope to hold on. If you want to beat him, sometime you need to shoulder the responsibility. Nibali did bloody well given his past performances. Anton attacked today and came up trumps. Is it Contadors fault he is in pink? Is it his fault Anton was the only one ahead of him today? HELL NO. Strategically the smartest thing to do was mark his opposition whoever it be. There is no drafting on a hill this steep, nice try impyling as much though.

Also nice fail ignoring the fact that by not following Anton, AC ensures another rider comes closer to second place. If everyone believes Contador is in the box seat, what are they racing for? Second, duh! Anton is almost right there after todays stage. Makes AC's job easier and Nibali far more uncertain. Why? Because now Nibali's first task is to hold second, not go for first. If he's smart, and he is, AC was probably aware that Anton was very close to taking second by the time gaps. He did the right thing by attacking at the end. He lets Nibali know he was holding back. I thought he'd go at 2km, he went with 1km left and realised it was too late, slowed too much, realised Nibali was on his wheel again and then went again to psychologically soften Nibali up. That's sport, not classless, so build your bridge and move on. AC was letting Nibali know there are two guys in formm in front of him on the road who can beat him. Makes Nibali a less imposing threat if he thinks Anton and AC can beat him. Oh and there are time bonuses on the line. Might explain the acceleration. Maybe next time you can ring AC before the stage and tell him how to race in a manner you aprove of.

Contadors rhythm and cadence was the cleanest of any rider out there. I don't think he struggled. I'm not saying it was easy either. It wasn't, but he didn't appear to be in trouble at any time. He did what he needed to do, nothing more and looked to make a statement near the end but left it too late. Not his fault. He went when Nibali slowed, if he'd gone by his own pacing Anton would have had a shadow the whole stage. But for AC that was pointless and tactically silly. Better to hold pace behind Nibali or Scarponi, whoever is the best of the two and see what damage Anton could do on GC to lighten his opposition. Smart move by AC. Anton looked pretty good too, I'm not buying that line about only being interested in stage wins. If he keeps climbing and gaining time, Scarponi, Nibali and Menchov will definitely come under threat with their chronos if Anton's cushioning gets big enough. Nibali was a lot stronger than last year. Nice work by him. Good to see Menchov coming good. I'm surprised Rodriguez wasn't so good. Oh well.

I didn't imply that Nibali was "denied" anything, just that how Alberto went about it was classless, which it absolutely was.


PS: I think Contador is a particularly fine rider, which is why I found his comportment today so demeaning of his status. But I'm sure this escapes you.

 

[King Of The Wolds]

I don't get why so many people are surprised and/or amazed by Sivstvos performance this year. He has been a good climber all the time and he got some very need GC results in Grand Tours riding in support for his team leaders. Now - for the first time- he's the leader himself and therefore is getting better results.

You absolutly cannot compare this to Velits for example who was an HTC rider that turned into a GC conterder out of nothing.

+1

He worked llike a dog for Cav in the TdF last year, yet was still placing well on the big climbs. It was pretty obvious to me that if he could focus on his own ambitions more, then he'd be able to perform like this.

 

[Parrulo]

lol the "classless" act talk once again.

btw aren't you being "classless" when you say some is classless/ignorent for not sharing your opinion?

what contador did was the right thing. people seem to forget this is a race.

actually . . . . contador is freaking *******. classless act how does he dare to go away from nibali before giving him 2 good bye kisses!!!!!!