Giro d'Italia Stage 9: Messina - Etna, 169km (let the race begin!)

[meandmygitane]

That is not entirely true. In 2008, Col De la Ramaz was rated cat 1, in 2009, Col de la Colombiere was rated cat 1, and in 2010, Col du Soulor was rated cat 1. According to climbbybike.com difficulty equation, all rate about the same or higher than the first accent of Etna.

Reproducing climbbybikes results:

Col de la Colombiere: scores 112,8 according to the site, I get 112,98. Soulor and Ramaz are easier than Colombiere.

Etna (1st): scores 130 according to site, I get 115,4 (??), counting from Fiumefreddo di Sicilia I get 144,56!
Etna (2nd): scores 132,52 according to site; i get 132,68

Conclusion: Etna is harder than those at least, 1st ascent of Etna is a real monster.

 

[Ryaguas]

He did at the Vuelta against Mosquera on the last stage remember, everyone was expecting his diesel to struggle, but he paced the climb absolutely beautifully.

Il Squalo was much fresh since Roman was pacing him very well... Mosquera attacked from too far away...
But lets see if His diesel is good enough for Alberto...

We think in terms of teams having to work at the front, but Saxo Bank already spends a lot of time on the side of the front to keep Contador safe from crashes. They're going the same speed as the pink jersey's team, and not drafting off anyone, so the main difference would be that they don't have to fight for position when others want to move to safety.

Good catch! I hadn't noticed that...

BTW... watch out for Astana in Etna! They made a BIG recon to the etna! after Nibbs they were the others who made a lot of recon to the stage!

 

[benpounder]

Col de la Colombiere: scores 112,8 according to the site, I get 112,98. Soulor and Ramaz are easier than Colombiere.

Etna (1st): scores 130 according to site, I get 115,4 (??), counting from Fiumefreddo di Sicilia I get 144,56!
Etna (2nd): scores 132,52 according to site; i get 132,68

Conclusion: Etna is harder than those at least, 1st ascent of Etna is a real monster.

I've developed my own database, and my numbers are close to yours, 116 and 128 for Etna. It depends on what Colombeire you use (as LS pointed out). the '09 rout scores a 102, the '10 route scores 124. Now I won't claim my numbers are absolutely correct, but because they are all run through the same equation, using the numbers that published by the offical sites of the various races (length, elevation gain or grade, and top altitude), the values are valid for comparison.

More importantly, my point wasn't to compare whether or not Etna 1 or 2 is more difficult than various routes in the Tour. Rather to counter a claim that all Giro cat 1 climbs would be Tour HC climbs. And by no means would I suggest that Sunday's stage is an easy route - not withstanding the fire and brimstone spewing from the volcano, those are going to be long and hot climbs.

Now if you want to know of a real beast of a climb, according to my database, it is Colle delle Finestre rated at 224 (Crostis rates 208 and Zoncolan 207). Yep, the penultimate climb is this year's race. All three are way beyond of catagory.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

Wow, that stage looks like hell.

It's a stage that has Scarponi written all over it.

 

[The Hitch]

It's a stage that has Scarponi written all over it.

Ya.

In one of the guides i saw on the internet they asked Salvodeli (I think) and Scarponi, who they pick for the win, alternating every stage.

For this stage (11) Scarponi picked himself.

 

[meandmygitane]

I've developed my own database, and my numbers are close to yours, 116 and 128 for Etna. It depends on what Colombeire you use (as LS pointed out). the '09 rout scores a 102, the '10 route scores 124. Now I won't claim my numbers are absolutely correct, but because they are all run through the same equation, using the numbers that published by the offical sites of the various races (length, elevation gain or grade, and top altitude), the values are valid for comparison.

More importantly, my point wasn't to compare whether or not Etna 1 or 2 is more difficult than various routes in the Tour. Rather to counter a claim that all Giro cat 1 climbs would be Tour HC climbs. And by no means would I suggest that Sunday's stage is an easy route - not withstanding the fire and brimstone spewing from the volcano, those are going to be long and hot climbs.

Now if you want to know of a real beast of a climb, according to my database, it is Colle delle Finestre rated at 224 (Crostis rates 208 and Zoncolan 207). Yep, the penultimate climb is this year's race. All three are way beyond of catagory.

Yes, my point wasn't to wreck your post either, I looked a bit at numbers of cat 1,2 and HC in the tour'10 and giro'11 using the criteria which I think the ASO-people uses, and surprisingly they are pretty equal, but the Giro uses the climbs more "wisely".

Yup, Finestre looks gobsmacking! And the finale of the Queen stage at Val di Fassa, 6km of 10% in a whole day of (in ASO-grading):
HC - Cat.1 - Cat.1 - HC - Cat. 1.


Yes, it's more like
1. Some Giro cat. 2's would be TdF cat. 1, but not all
2. The inverse never applies, that is a french cat. 2 would be a italian cat. 1.


Let the racing start, sooooooooon.

 

[Ferminal]

I agree totally with the theory, especially since there aren't a lot of sprint stages in the future where other teams would be willing to chase down a break. But he also needs to be opportunistic. There are six queen stages in the Giro, and it's always possible to have an off day, or a mechanical at a really bad time. Friday his allergies bothered him a bit. Saturday he was okay. If it would come down to him with the other top GC guys, he has to go for the win, because of bonifications.

We think in terms of teams having to work at the front, but Saxo Bank already spends a lot of time on the side of the front to keep Contador safe from crashes. They're going the same speed as the pink jersey's team, and not drafting off anyone, so the main difference would be that they don't have to fight for position when others want to move to safety.

The big reason he might prefer not to have the jersey is because of the obligations after the stage when he's wanting to rest. But I think if he's in the pink, the breaks will have a much better shot at stage wins and stage placings, like they did in 2008.

I'm not sure if I'm going to fall asleep tonight either. I love everything about this stage.

Agreed, it will be hard for him not to end up in Pink - i.e. he would have to deliberately not follow an attack, or tank time. I guess the best way to do it would be to sit on Scarponi and let him take the stage win and full time bonus.

Would be a bit silly for him to have attacked yesterday for 17s, and then give away 15-30s for free today.

HTC will control stage 10 and 12 regardless of who wears Pink so between now and the Dolomites they would only have to work hard on Wednesday (Stage 11). But all teams will have to work for their leaders on Wednesday as it's a risky stage.

 

[Climbing]

Nibali will want to fare well here at home.
Probably Scarponi favourite today, and let's see if Contador was bluffing or taunting yesterday.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

only cat-1s? What are you expecting? The Giro doesn't do "hors catégorie". The only climb paying more than cat.1 points is the Passo Giau, cos it's the Cima Coppi.

Giro cat.1 = Tour HC
Giro cat.2 = Tour cat.1
Giro cat.3 = Tour cat.2
Giro cat.4 = Tour cat.3
Tour cat.4 = total waste of time for the Giro to even think about.

There are some climbs in the Giro that offer no points that would be at least a cat.3, maybe even cat.2, at the Tour.

Okaaaaaaaay. But then how is it that ETNA is a cat-1 at an average gradient of 5.6? Seems like ETNA should be less than cat-1. Does not make sense to me.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

I see after reading some of the posts that followed yours LS, that there is some conflicting information about the ETNA % gradient that has been posted. So being it is a cat-1, it must have a steeper gradient. So if that's really the case, then we could have, hope to have, a good show tomorrow. Yay.

 

[auscyclefan94]

AVE grade of final climb is 6.2% for 19.4km

 

[dlwssonic]

Nibali would really one to win this at his home town. Supporting Nibali for the win. loved it when he played with the others on the strade bianche descent.

 

[monopost]

General classment:

Weening
Sivtsov
Pinotti
Le Mevel
Contador
Scarponi
Lastras
Nibali
Kruijswijk
Serpa

Who are going to be the big movers after Etna?

Kreuziger will move somewhere into TOP10. Three names remains surely. The others, thats is a question. Most of them lose positions. I am curious which of none favourites will have good legs and remain here. I guess two of them.

 

[spalco]

So, everything ok with the volcano I assume or are there any changes?

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

There's already quite a few notable climbers down on GC who could look at a breakaway tomorrow: Di Luca, Blanco, Betancourt, Hoogerland, Stortoni, Nocentini, Spilak, Possoni....

rujano. it could be a risk but perhaps worht risking if he sends up some good man first and then jumps to them in climb and gets help until final climb. wouldn't surprise me if peloton took it easy

 

[Fus087]

A dream scenario would be to have Rujano & a couple of guys like Pirazzi, Hoogerland etc. go on the first ascent of the Etna. Preferably with a good downhiller to lead them down to the second ascent without significant losses.
And then all hell to break loose both in that break and in the peloton behind.

 

[RedheadDane]

Hmm, just a question. Has the airport been shut down? This quote taken from the Bike Chatter page sorta indicates it:

Busy waiting to catch the boat across the straight of Messina..

 

[spalco]

Well, why would you take an airplane when you are already so close? It's only 30km or so across to Messina.

 

[LabMonkey]

Fantasy cycling dilema, Out of these four, who will finish highest today:

Lofkvist
Pinotti
Pozzovivo
Arroyo

Thoughts would be appreciated, cheers!

 

[Ferminal]

I would say Pozzovivo (riskier pick) > Arroyo > Pinotti > Lofkvist

 

[will10]

Probably Pozzovivo but Pinotti or Arroyo are a bit more consistant.

EDIT: Great minds think alike

 

[LabMonkey]

Fermal and Will10 - thanks for your thoughts

Interesting that you both think that Lofkvist doesn't have much chance, he is in my team, but will be removed for one of the others... hmmm

Also, since you seem keen to help,

Same question on this lot:

Kruijswijk
Cataldo
Machedo
Pirazzi
Tschopp

Thanks again

 

[taiwan]

Fantasy cycling dilema, Out of these four, who will finish highest today:

Lofkvist
Pinotti
Pozzovivo
Arroyo

Thoughts would be appreciated, cheers!

I'd say Arroyo or Pozzovivo, but struggling to choose between them

 

[Ferminal]

Well it's not that, it's very hard to separate them.

As climbers I would have Arroyo, Pinotti and Lofkvist all rather close to each other. But I'm more confident in Arroyo and Pinotti being up for this.

 

[LabMonkey]

Well it's not that, it's very hard to separate them.

As climbers I would have Arroyo, Pinotti and Lofkvist all rather close to each other. But I'm more confident in Arroyo and Pinotti being up for this.

You make a good point there - especially since Pinotti is well up on GC at the moment.

I guess my question should have been who would end up highest on GC after this stage!