Giro d'Italia Stage 9: Messina - Etna, 169km (let the race begin!)

[No_Balls]

I don't think that cancer patients or obese housewives are incapable of having rational opinions or that they are inherently worth of derision.

Yes, they have. If they only watch cycling in July and can´t spell Giro d´italia.

Amstrong had greater appeal for the general public because of his illness, recovery and comeback.

Yes, that was the fairytale in which he founded his success (as well as confessed his innonce) upon.

And the general public, perhaps not including the Belgian general public, know very little about professional cycling.

Highly speculative.

I suspect that Contador also has a considerable though lesser number of these fans - people who are fans of the famous rider rather than the sport - in Spain, but as I don't read Spanish I thankfully don't come across them very often.

And yet you complain about the number of Contador fans?

 

[Climbing]

Nibali is very good at getting the maximum out of his capabilities by riding smart.
That still doesn't help you any up climbs like the Crostis and Zoncolan, where the most talented will surface.

Nibali is much like Savoldelli. And even Savoldelli found out multiple times in his career, that riding smart doesn't always cut it. Sometimes you're outclassed

It’s true, he’s not a true climber, but can defend himself pretty well, and last year Zoncolan came after the long escape the day before (many km against the wind on the flat, not just descent).
That day (Zoncolan)he was the first to attack after the work of Szmydt, and let’s be honest, Basso benefited a lot from both action, staying at wheel.
If you’re right he will go backward on those three stages, but I think he has a good chance of coming 2nd in the overall in Milan.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Highly speculative.

What's highly speculative? A statement that the vast majority of people know very little about professional cycling? It's speculative in the sense that I haven't carried out rigorous polling on the issue, but it's also a statement of the bleeding obvious.

And yet you complain about the number of Contador fans?

No, I laugh at the idea that there is some sort of moral or intellectual failing in Armstrong fanboys that isn't equally present in Contador fanboys. And in particular I'm amused by Contador fans sneering at Armstrong fans. It's the same thing, just with a duller backstory.

 

[Ryaguas]

Today looked pretty emotional, and I think his attack was pretty unplanned and he simply responded to Astana's show of force leading up to the Mount Etna climb

Was totally planned and You can see Riis' hand in that attack...

No, you totally misjudge me there, I passionately hate Armstrong and everything he stands for, much more than I dislike Contador.

Was a joke look the ""

I think the most important question on everybody's mind is, will Contador go all pink on us tomorrow?

Yep! I'm thinking the same!

I guess I'd never seen him ride so well so when you read all this hype but he never does anything you become sceptical. Now I am a believer.

Nice to see you showing him some respect =D

Less than 2 km's later you see by the look on his face once he was reeled in by the chasers that he had been struck with quite a blow to his morale by Contador.

Yep that was pretty sad... His face was a poem...

To me, it's like why are you racing then?

For some stage win?

Well, he lied. He's definitely going for GC, that much is obvious. He may not be in top shape, but a good GC result should be possible. Top 10, no question.

For me ride for GC is try to win it not a top 5 or top 10... That's why Fuji is not riding for GC, He is here w/o pressure just to get, if possible, an stage win and get the maximun exp from this hard Giro...

I don’t want to start an argument with you, but I think you’re underestimating Nibali (like many did during last Giro and Vuelta too).
And even if you were perfectly correct about Nibali, who was stronger than him yesterday, apart Contador and – possibly- Rujano? Many strong favourites for GC failed badly yesterday.

Right now I think that Roman is better than Lo Squalo... I think that We'll see it in Zoncolan and Grossglockner...

 

[Publicus]

They may have 4-5 guys there, if they can't ride as fast as the break uphill they still have a problem

I don't think he's going to find it as easy to get away as he did yesterday. Unlike yesterday, he will be marked by those with podium ambitions as well. Recall no one responded yesterday. It was only when AC attacked that anyone responded. I think the next time Rujano attempts to go, he's going to find himself with more company than he wants, which if AC is smart he will play to his advantage. Barring a crash or bonk on the Zoncolan, I don't see him getting back 6 minutes on AC. But if he truly is the second best climber in the race, he should be more than happy to work with AC to put as much time into the rest of the favorites as possible.

 

[Ryaguas]

Armstrong fans

Who is this "armstrong" guy that you are talking about?

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Who is this "armstrong" guy that you are talking about?

He was the Contador of his day. Ask your dad about him.

 

[jaylew]

I think the most important question on everybody's mind is, will Contador go all pink on us tomorrow?

Nah. Way too early.

 

[Ryaguas]

He was the Contador of his day. Ask your dad about him.

was being sarcastic...

 

[Maxiton]

He was the Contador of his day. Ask your dad about him.

Your point seems to be that Contador, like Armstrong in his time, is clearly several grades above everyone else, while having obvious, major Clinic issues and avid, rabid fanboys; ergo, Contador and Armstrong represent the same phenomenon, essentially, and only the names change. To me that seems like a superficial reading of things.

EDIT: I wanted to respond but have to leave for work. I'll pick this up later.

 

[boomcie]

Who is this "armstrong" guy that you are talking about?

He was the Contador of his day. Ask your dad about him.

My dad says he was the first person to set foot on the moon. This does not make sense in the context of professional road cycling. Could you elaborate please?

 

[killswitch]

... to set foot on the moon

Is this the name of Dr. Ferrari's clinic?

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

was being sarcastic...

Has it yet occurred to you that sometimes a sarcastic question invites a sarcastic response?

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Your point seems to be that Contador, like Armstrong in his time, is clearly several grades above everyone else, while having obvious, major Clinic issues and avid, rabid fanboys; ergo, Contador and Armstrong represent the same phenomenon, essentially, and only the names change. To me that seems like a superficial reading of things.

Almost but not quite.

Contador is clearly several grades above his rivals when it comes to Grand Tour GCs, just as Armstrong was in the previous period.

Contador has obvious, major, Clinic issues, just as Armstrong had in the previous period.

Contador has plenty of avid, rabid fanboys, just as Armstrong had in the previous period.

My view is not that they represent precisely the same phenomenon for the sport of cycling, but the much more limited point that Contador fanboys who sneer at Armstrong fanboys are pathetic hypocrites. There is no failing, moral or intellectual, which can fairly be ascribed to Armstrong fans which cannot also be ascribed with equal validity to Contador fans. Both cheer for the prohibitive favourite and strongly emotionally identify with the near certain winner. Both willfully ignore the 20 foot neon signs pointing towards the Clinic. Both irrationally and prematurely insist on the all time great status of the object of their adoration.

Yet it is perfectly acceptable to be a Contador fanboy on these forums while being an Armstrong fanboy would make you a leper.

 

[boomcie]

Yet it is perfectly acceptable to be a Contador fanboy on these forums while being an Armstrong fanboy would make you a leper.

That's a little much no? I'm quite sure no one will catch leprocy on an internet forum, just by becoming an Armstrong fanboy.

Shame on you for spreading make-believe stories like this. You are disturbing the social balance!

 

[Dedelou]

I suspect that Scarponi was expecting others like Nibali and Kruziger to go with him - working together they may have succeeded, but alone, the result was obvious. Poor ba$tard...

Don't forget that he might be reading this forum and so he would KNOW that if he hung on and it come down to a sprint Contador would not be able to "cover " any gap he might create.. Not poor ******* as much as poor information source

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

For me ride for GC is try to win it not a top 5 or top 10... That's why Fuji is not riding for GC, He is here w/o pressure just to get, if possible, an stage win and get the maximun exp from this hard Giro...

I see your point, but a stage win doesn't seem likely if Anton keeps riding for a top 5 (or top 3). He's only 1 minute behind Nibali in GC and lost next to nothing (versus Nibali and Kreuziger) in the Etna stage.

He's a podium threat at this point.

 

[58teeth]

Cuz there was an strong head wind... and nobody wanted to put himself in the wind and spend energies trying to reel back Alberto... Also I'm pretty sure that everyone there was in panic... Roman had 2 or 3 domestiques there but He didnt use them... Lo Squalo was alone and Michele had only Niemiec who burned himself pacing the group big part of the climb...

Mentally they are riding for 2nd just Michele is thinking about winning it that's why He tried to follow Alberto but Alberto is so much class, He isn't at 100% and you see what He did... I think that no other GC rider is going to recover from the moral blow that They took yesterday...

Very good synopsis! Thanks Ryaguas. I figured they were all like "wow...just...wow".

 

[Midnightfright]

My dad says he was the first person to set foot on the moon. This does not make sense in the context of professional road cycling. Could you elaborate please?

Genius. Thank you for this answer.

 

[Maxiton]

Almost but not quite.

Contador is clearly several grades above his rivals when it comes to Grand Tour GCs, just as Armstrong was in the previous period.

Contador has obvious, major, Clinic issues, just as Armstrong had in the previous period.

Contador has plenty of avid, rabid fanboys, just as Armstrong had in the previous period.

My view is not that they represent precisely the same phenomenon for the sport of cycling, but the much more limited point that Contador fanboys who sneer at Armstrong fanboys are pathetic hypocrites. There is no failing, moral or intellectual, which can fairly be ascribed to Armstrong fans which cannot also be ascribed with equal validity to Contador fans. Both cheer for the prohibitive favourite and strongly emotionally identify with the near certain winner. Both willfully ignore the 20 foot neon signs pointing towards the Clinic. Both irrationally and prematurely insist on the all time great status of the object of their adoration.

Yet it is perfectly acceptable to be a Contador fanboy on these forums while being an Armstrong fanboy would make you a leper.

That last point is probably true. In defense of those who appreciate Contador: I think most of us like him because as I said earlier he is a real cyclist; he goes out to race and win. We assume he has Clinic issues because of his provenance - Manolo Saiz and all that - and also because of his otherworldly performances, which look like performances from others in the recent past that have defied credibility. But the thing is, Contador has always been a true phenomenon on a bike, apparently.

Fans look at Contador and see cyclist through and through, someone who rides with passion and grace. It's been a long time since they've seen that in a champion, if they ever have. That's why Contador is exciting, and that's why he is good for cycling.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Almost but not quite.

Contador is clearly several grades above his rivals when it comes to Grand Tour GCs, just as Armstrong was in the previous period.

Contador has obvious, major, Clinic issues, just as Armstrong had in the previous period.

Contador has plenty of avid, rabid fanboys, just as Armstrong had in the previous period.

My view is not that they represent precisely the same phenomenon for the sport of cycling, but the much more limited point that Contador fanboys who sneer at Armstrong fanboys are pathetic hypocrites. There is no failing, moral or intellectual, which can fairly be ascribed to Armstrong fans which cannot also be ascribed with equal validity to Contador fans. Both cheer for the prohibitive favourite and strongly emotionally identify with the near certain winner. Both willfully ignore the 20 foot neon signs pointing towards the Clinic. Both irrationally and prematurely insist on the all time great status of the object of their adoration.

Yet it is perfectly acceptable to be a Contador fanboy on these forums while being an Armstrong fanboy would make you a leper.

100% agree. According to some on here there are two sets rules in this world, one for Alberto and another set for the rest of the world. What I am trying to say is he can't do no wrong and is treated like a God. Absolute and utter hypocrites. How dare anyone criticise him?

 

[boomcie]

100% agree. According to some on here there are two sets rules in this world, one for Alberto and another set for the rest of the world. What I am trying to say is he can't do no wrong and is treated like a God. Absolute and utter hypocrites. How dare anyone criticise him?

First of all, I've got the feeling Conti's mainly a saint to the people of the Iberian peninsula.

I myself don't have a problem with Alberto, he's obviously a solid rider and he's not too cocky.

I do have a problem with the fact that Alberto is still riding in the peloton though. He's been caught cheating and therefore should not be riding his bike at the moment. So in fact I don't like him right now. When Alberto will be sentenced again, he will leave behind a terrible mess which I blame him for.

The fact of the matter is that I dislike all blind fanboyism. I can't say I look upon Armstrong fans differently than I look upon Contador or Vino or Valverde fans. Or Sastre fans for that matter. Being a fan is very much OK until that fan starts vigorously and aggressively defending his/her idols. That, I don't like. Contador fans can be pretty damn annoying that way.

 

[El Pistolero]

It's good to have Contador in this race or Ryo would have died from a heart attack already

Besides, Contador hardly gets threated like a god here or by the media. I don't know where you guys get that from.

I'll give you a very little anecdote. Me and my dad were watching the Etna stage and then my dad said "they really don't race anymore in modern day cycling..." and then bang, Contador shot out the favorites group like an bullet and the race finally turned exciting.

Moral of the story is, most GT contenders these days don't have balls and never will.

 

[Lanark]

First of all, I've got the feeling Conti's mainly a saint to the people of the Iberian peninsula.

I myself don't have a problem with Alberto, he's obviously a solid rider and he's not too cocky.

I do have a problem with the fact that Alberto is still riding in the peloton though. He's been caught cheating and therefore should not be riding his bike at the moment. So in fact I don't like him right now. When Alberto will be sentenced again, he will leave behind a terrible mess which I blame him for.

The fact of the matter is that I dislike all blind fanboyism. I can't say I look upon Armstrong fans differently than I look upon Contador or Vino or Valverde fans. Or Sastre fans for that matter. Being a fan is very much OK until that fan starts vigorously and aggressively defending his/her idols. That, I don't like. Contador fans can be pretty damn annoying that way.

It's good to have Contador in this race or Ryo would have died from a heart attack already

Besides, Contador hardly gets threated like a god here or by the media. I don't know where you guys get that from.

I'll give you a very little anecdote. Me and my dad were watching the Etna stage and then my dad said "they really don't race anymore in modern day cycling..." and then bang, Contador shot out the favorites group like an bullet and the race finally turned exciting.

Moral of the story is, most GT contenders these days don't have balls and never will.

Delicious irony.

 

[El Pistolero]

Fail to see how it's irony. Most GT contenders hardly attack anymore these days. Thank god there's someone like Rujano in this race who's not afraid to attack.

They're all afraid and they will be even more afraid after what happened at the Mongibello. The pace couldn't have been too high in the chasing group behind Contador if John Gadret could gap them for a while. No, just look at each other and race for second. But perhaps you saw a different race filled with attacks, then I get your "irony"