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Giro presentation: October 24th

Mar 18, 2009
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First rumours abound:

On the subject of cruelty, rumors are a-swirl that next year’s Giro course will involve some silly hard climbing. The Zoncolan and the Plan de Corones have sent their acceptance for next year’s May party. Reportedly, the Giro will climb the Zoncolan from the Ovaro side. A new climb will provide a zesty antipasto to the Zoncolan, and the stage will likely start in Mestre. It’s not clear when exactly the Zoncolan will show up, but late in the second week sounds most likely. The Plan de Corones, meanwhile, will host a cronoscalata on Tuesday of the final week on 25 May. The stage will follow the same course as the last edition, which Franco Pellizotti won.

A stage running from Brunico to Pejo Fonti may follow the cronoscalata and could include the Passo de Mendola. A finish in Pejo Fonti sounds relatively definite, at least as definite as course rumors ever are. Stage 17 also romps around Trentino. Rumor claims the Giro will race over the Gavia and the Mortirolo. An early rumor put a stage finish on the Gavia, but the lack of stage finish sort of infrastructure makes this idea unlikely. Anyway, the Gavia pairs with the Mortirolo like a nice Brunello and a plate of Penne alla Puttanesca. A press release from the province of Sondrio suggests a stage between Aprica and Bormio is in the works, a route that would almost certainly include the Gavia Pass.

If these third week rumors are correct, the Giro will arrive at its climbing finale in the Northern mountains and the Lombardia region. This pattern narrows the final stage possibilities, since a repeat of last year’s Roma finish would require a massive transfer over half the length of Italia. Cue rider protest in 3... 2... Of course, it wouldn’t be Giro without transfers, and rumor suggests that the Terminillo will also grace next year’s edition of the Giro. The Terminillo is in the Appennino in the Abruzzo region. If the rumored final week in Trentino is correct, the Terminillo would have to appear early in the second week to allow time for the Giro to make its way back up to Mestre for the suffering on the Zoncolan.

What about the first week, you ask? Yes, we are doing this backwards. The Session shows her caprice.

The Giro heads to the Netherlands for the start on 8 May. All the rage lately, these Netherlands. After three stages with Dutch people, the Giro returns to Italy. Two stages in Piedmont follow, including a tribute to Fausto Coppi which will visit Novi Liguri. The other Piedmont stage is rumored to visit Fossano. The rumor mill doesn’t seem to know what happens next, though a southward course seems likely from Piedmont, especially if the Giro truly intends to visit the Terminillo in Abruzzo.

Back of the envelope sketch: Three stages in the Netherlands, followed by a transfer/rest day. Two stages in Piedmont. Some stages south, perhaps along the Ligurian Coast before turning inland to arrive in Abruzzo for a hot date with the Terminillo by no later than midway through the second week. Perhaps second mountain stage in Abruzzo, since all good things come in pairs. A turn back northwards, with a transfer/rest day for good measure. Late in the second week, a visit to the Zoncolan with a start in Mestre, which is not far from Venezia. Then, a difficult and mountainous third week jaunt including the cronoscalata on the Plan de Corones and two mountain stages, with the Gavia and Mortirolo providing the climbing finale. A time trial has to fit in there somewhere, of course. Last, a finish in Milano, which is conveniently located near the northern mountains.

The official announcement comes on 24 October, and we can trust Zomegnan to have a surprise or two on the day. Why be predictable? Fickle, all the rage.

Lance Armstrong has also decided to play the unpredictable card. Rumors are flying that the American may ride the Giro d’Italia instead of the Tour of California. The two races run concurrently next season. I blame El Niño. In any case, Armstrong may skip the American race in favor of the Italian party. No doubt appearance fees will decide the deal. Last year, the Giro offered 2 million euro for Armstrong’s presence, but it’s not certain they will repeat such generosity this year. Armstrong to Tour of California: Don’t take me for granted. Me, I expect this story to play out until the last possible moment, generating constant stream of headlines and raising Armstrong’s asking price. He does like his headlines. I’ll be surprised to see Armstrong in Italy, but Fate does like to have her fun.



http://www.podiumcafe.com/2009/10/1/1065468/the-wednesday-session

(thanks to Juan for pointing them out to me)

The Zoncolan climb is the harder one used in 2007, not the "easy" 9.5% average climb used in 2003. The stage will likely be 233 kms long and the hardest side of the Monte Crostis climb should precede the Zoncolan.
The TT is also rumoured to be in Lecco.
Should be as usual, a not-so-hard mountain climb (Terminillo) in the first/second week, then the rest of the mountains in the last week.

I like all the climbs mentioned, but.....I want the Stelvio to be used. It's been 4 years :(
 
franciep10 said:
The gavia, mortirolo, plan de corones and the zoncolan, all I can say is wow. I doubt any other race can match this.
They can't, end of.
No other Tour is blessed with these parcours.
Add to these, the Stelvio, Marmolada, Colle de Finestre, Alpe di Pamp etc etc..

Anyhow, I think that the route will play the deciding factor in Mr A's plans and this sounds just too much.
 
Jul 27, 2009
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Will it encourage good racing?

A question for you all:

Undoubtedly, passes like the Zoncolan and Mortirolo are exceedingly tough for amateurs to even climb, compared to some of the TdF climbs, some of which are actually pretty straightforward if you're not in a hurry. I don't think I'd be game to tackle either without considerably lower gearing than what you typically find on a road bike.

But for pros and particularly the GC riders, are they significantly different from less steep passes in terms of their effect on the race?
 
Apr 18, 2009
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Mellow Velo said:
They can't, end of.
No other Tour is blessed with these parcours.
Add to these, the Stelvio, Marmolada, Colle de Finestre, Alpe di Pamp etc etc..

Anyhow, I think that the route will play the deciding factor in Mr A's plans and this sounds just too much.

The Giro also usually manages to include a few good rolling hill stages in the Appenines. Usually, they aren't too important for GC, but you can't get caught napping, and they're usually fairly exciting, as the race hasn't been too broken up yet, so 10/20 seconds here and there makes things more interesting.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Giro is always a great race though they do not always get the best gc riders. The routes the giro organisers put out are unpredictable and they take risks that pay off to make the race more exciting.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Mellow Velo said:
They can't, end of.
No other Tour is blessed with these parcours.
Add to these, the Stelvio, Marmolada, Colle de Finestre, Alpe di Pamp etc etc..

Anyhow, I think that the route will play the deciding factor in Mr A's plans and this sounds just too much.

Well, Spain has about 8-9 climbs that are far harder.

The problem is that they're all in the Las Palmas and Tenerife islands. The Vuelta can't afford to go there for any length of time to include mountains.

Too bad.

Other than that, they tried to include the Pico Veleta in the 2009 Vuelta but were unable to. It would've been the highest climb ever used in professional european cycling. And it would've peaked 8kms from the stage finish.

Here's the profile.

Pico-de-Veleta-Granada_profile.jpg

They also have the Sierra del Valledor, Sierra de Lújar, Laguna della Sobia and Fuente Escondida climbs. They've never used any of them, that I can remember.

A bit like the Tour always avoiding the hardest climbs in France.
Too bad
 
Jun 22, 2009
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Giro is a great race.. Italians always seem to be at the best here (maybe that should be posted elsewhere though :p)
Hopefully a few of the other big GC men will ride other then menchov (who stated he wanted to defend his title). I'd like to see evans have a go.

I'd really like to see Nibali have a go at the win too... but his team considered I doubt that will be happening. Curious to see how the leadership for the giro and tour unfold in team liquigas
 
issoisso said:
Well, Spain has about 8-9 climbs that are far harder.
The problem is that they're all in the Las Palmas and Tenerife islands. The Vuelta can't afford to go there for any length of time to include mountains.
Too bad.
Other than that, they tried to include the Pico Veleta in the 2009 Vuelta but were unable to. It would've been the highest climb ever used in professional european cycling. And it would've peaked 8kms from the stage finish.

I'd like to see Monte Teide on Tenerife climbed. 40 odd KMs, from sea level to 2300 metres. Not massively steep though. Very hot up there in September.
Very, very hot, when I was up there, in early August.

It's like saying the Scanuppia is the hardest climb in Europe, but they can't include that in the Giro.

These Italian climbs are being used regularly, the Spanish climbs have never appeared.

Until they do, the Italian climbs reign supreme.
 
May 6, 2009
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What is the difference out of Spanish, Italian, and French mountains? I know from experience that the French mountains (I have only ridden in the Pyrennes), is that they are long, but not as steep, a consistent gradient, whereas the ones that the Giro uses, are long, and often very steep. And in Spain, the Vuelta uses a mixture of the two?
 
before even seeing the course got to say i like pelizotti's chances this year...he's shown gradual improvement every year he's ridden the giro and the plan from liquigas IIRC was to have pelizotti go for the giro and basso the tour

that proposed route will be a beast...especially a MTT on plan de corones which looked crazy hard in '08
 
Sep 21, 2009
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The main difference between Spanish climbs and French/Italian climbs is that there are not many mountain passes in Spain with a hard climb on both sides. Some of the hardest mountain passes are in the roads that run from the valleys in the north to the central plateau. So if they want to make a stage with several hard climbs they have to ride up a valley, enter the plateau, ride on the flat for several km until you find another valley to descend and find a new valley to ascend.

Hard mountain passes connecting two valleys with a similar height a their bottom are rare. Pyrenean valleys in Spain are not as low as in France. Valleys in the Cantabric mountain range are lower at their base, but so is the mountain range.

There are a few mountain passes whose altimetry profile can be compared to that of some hard climbs in the Tour or Giro but they are in very remote areas in the northwest and that makes them difficult to feature in pro races because they are far away from other similar mountain passes and from places that could be a stage finish.

From time to time they do experiments such as the loop they did this year in the stage to the Velefique pass. And you may have read/heard the complains of riders because of the long and late 100+ km transfer from the stage finish to their hotels.

Yes, there are some very steep one-side climbs such as La Pandera (a private road) or Angliru, as well as long climbs such as Sierra Nevada. But in most cases they cannot preceded by another hard climb close to their base.
 
May 6, 2009
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The latest:

* TTT included around Cuneo.
* After the three stages in the Netherlands, the 3rd stage will finish early (1pm) so the riders can get on a plane and fly to Italy, most likely Torino and the rest of the crew will drive the 1150km, and thus, no rest day.
* Tribute to Fausto Coppi (Alessandria) as it will mark 50 years since he died, and a stage finish at the home town of Marco Pantani (Cesenatico).
* A stage finish at Monte Terminillo (2217m) included, which borders on the Lazio region.
* Monte Zoncolan (1750m), in as well as a mountain ITT from San Vigilio a Plan de Corones. Passo del Mortirolo (1855m) and the Passo di Gavia (2618m) will also be included.
* Race ends in Verona with again a ITT.

Thoughts?
 
Oct 15, 2009
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icefire said:
The main difference between Spanish climbs and French/Italian climbs is that there are not many mountain passes in Spain with a hard climb on both sides. Some of the hardest mountain passes are in the roads that run from the valleys in the north to the central plateau. So if they want to make a stage with several hard climbs they have to ride up a valley, enter the plateau, ride on the flat for several km until you find another valley to descend and find a new valley to ascend.

Hard mountain passes connecting two valleys with a similar height a their bottom are rare. Pyrenean valleys in Spain are not as low as in France. Valleys in the Cantabric mountain range are lower at their base, but so is the mountain range.

There are a few mountain passes whose altimetry profile can be compared to that of some hard climbs in the Tour or Giro but they are in very remote areas in the northwest and that makes them difficult to feature in pro races because they are far away from other similar mountain passes and from places that could be a stage finish.

From time to time they do experiments such as the loop they did this year in the stage to the Velefique pass. And you may have read/heard the complains of riders because of the long and late 100+ km transfer from the stage finish to their hotels.

Yes, there are some very steep one-side climbs such as La Pandera (a private road) or Angliru, as well as long climbs such as Sierra Nevada. But in most cases they cannot preceded by another hard climb close to their base.

Yes, that's the main problem with the mountain stages in Spain. We have a lot of hard climbs, even competing with those of the Dolomites, but it's complicated to make a stage with more than 1/2 hard climbs, with maybe the exception of the Cordillera Cantábrica.
 
Mar 11, 2009
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craig1985 said:
The latest:

* TTT included around Cuneo.
* After the three stages in the Netherlands, the 3rd stage will finish early (1pm) so the riders can get on a plane and fly to Italy, most likely Torino and the rest of the crew will drive the 1150km, and thus, no rest day.
* Tribute to Fausto Coppi (Alessandria) as it will mark 50 years since he died, and a stage finish at the home town of Marco Pantani (Cesenatico).
* A stage finish at Monte Terminillo (2217m) included, which borders on the Lazio region.
* Monte Zoncolan (1750m), in as well as a mountain ITT from San Vigilio a Plan de Corones. Passo del Mortirolo (1855m) and the Passo di Gavia (2618m) will also be included.
* Race ends in Verona with again a ITT.

Thoughts?


A Holland-Italy transfer and no rest day....Crazy

The mountains are great, really looking forward to see the entire stages.
 
It's all becoming a bit too US centric around here.
No less than 4 threads on one race in May.
Well, it's time to bump this thread, on that other race in May.
The Giro route will be presented live tomorrow, on tv, as with the TDF.

While we have a good idea as to which of the "classic" climbs will be used, I'll be interested to see what other "passos", they intend to use.
Plus, any of those "flat" stages that have a sting in the tail, that no other tour seems able to replicate.

For me, this is the real Big One, regardless of any hype and hullabaloo.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Is anyone watching on RAI?

Did anyone else but me fall off the chair laughing histerically at the italians singing Queen and very very obviously adlibing lyrics in certain parts?