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Giro route criticism

Okay, it's been only 13* stages and something good might still happen, but anyway.

I look back at people salivating when the route was unveiled marking it high in the poll so it's time for an actual review. Given the 'love' to put it mildly people have for the Giro (probably because it isn't the Tour) what's about to follow won't be to everyone's liking.

Ready for it?

The route is ****. Zomegnan made it too hard.

This has very little to do with Contador even though the danger of a dominant rider making the race boring was there right from the start as I'm against routes like the 2009 Tour (blah) or 2010 Vuelta (double blah) where the organization deliberately wants to keep the suspense until the final stage.

No.

Look at the race behind Contador. There are very good riders afraid to make a move for a fear of paying for it later on. I refuse to believe that people like Gadret and Dupont can get away from Menchovs, Nibalis, Scarponis et cetera going full tilt. I refuse to believe that on a pretty tough climb with an average of over 9% for 6k that the rest are equal to the point that 13 (!) people would get together shortly after the start of the descent after Kasereck

What's even more worrying, is the distinct possibility that the race for 2nd (3rd, 1st, whatever depending on how the stars align) can be over after tomorrow as the combination of Crostis+Zoncolan is sufficiently tough that even people racing with calculators can get a huge advantage that may well be enough for the rest of the Giro. Yes, there's 15 the next day and some people might pay for their efforts but in reality those who suffered on the Zoncolan would have to grow a pair or visit the clinic to be able to turn things around the next day. Point is the gaps after this weekend are likely to be huge even between mortals.

Can MTT, Finestre+ Milano TT turn things around significantly to salvage the final week? Savoldelli lost less than 2 minutes in 05 when there were enough people with the incentive to ride together against him. As a reminder, even though he rode quite strongly, did a great descent and had company for the final climb Savoldelli lost his 1.55 after being dropped with 1 hour and 40 minutes to go on the stage, almost as soon as Finestre started. TT? There are people like Gadret and Rodriguez who will always suffer regardless of their form but others are not likely to lose minutes. The route is horribly unbalanced when something initially superfluous like the MTT (seriously, why the **** 8 mountain top finishes apart from making the fanboys go gaga) becomes potentially important.

Net result, the penultimate weekend will be far more important than the whole final week. As I wrote before, I am against things Ventoux or that overrated climb near Madrid on the final Saturday but surely a better balance is possible instead of 14 and 15 being the toughest stages, one after the other with nothing between.

Taking away Montevergine were nothing ever happens (and it was even worse than ever this year with 25 people getting the same time) no so called favorite (apart from Contador) made a single notable attack in the next 2 MTFs. No so called favorite did anything notable on those crappy anti-sprinter stages which added absolutely nothing to the race.

Speaking of other stages there are many more issues.

The stage to Orvieto. The weather played it's part, something that I'd been telling the 2010 Giro fanboys before but the course design was badly lacking.
3k of sterrato uphill with 35k to go. What the hell was that? A descent on the gravel? What's the point of putting a stage like that in a horribly one-sided Giro pandering to climbers when it's almost impossible for the better roleurs to gain time? Ah, but the universal success of Montalcino you say. The crash and the weather played the part but there the sterrato was on a climb that ended with 5k to go. 5 not 15 or 35. End result this year, a weak Montalcino copy where punctures played a bigger a bigger role in gaps than any riding.

Then stage 11. 144 km, wth? It's too short. The overall route is too tough, so there's Petacchi (who isn't the worst climber ever, but he got his point jerseys by being fast in sprints) leading the group to the foot of the final hill. A worthless stage from a spectator point of view.

No stages for sprinters in the final week? Needless. Extra bumps in the first 10 days just to **** the sprinters off? On a hard course like this needless.

Ok, now I'm reading that Crostis will be taken out. After the hype, hype, hype, Contador dominance and frankly boring riding by the rest it does make the route somewhat better. But again, it's not down to Zomegnan, although the events of the Giro made it easier for him to accept it.
 
May 15, 2009
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Please suggest which course will be better and which Giro edition (in your opinion) was the best in recent years? Say, since 2003.
 

Barrus

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I think this has not that much to do with the harshness of the Giro, but more with the manner in which the other riders are riding. COntador and Rujano are by far the best climbers and they do attack. But if you look at Scarponi and Anton did attack, but they could not follow Contador and Rujano, Kreuziger and Nibali are too scared to take a chance, because if they did they would already have some extra time over Scarponi. If you look at the fact that in the following week there are quite a bit of moments in which the other contedners could do something, but I doubt they will. The defensive manner of riding can be seen in other GTs as well, even in GTs that are by far not as hard. People are more scared of losing their good placing as they are motivated to try and win the race and this means defensive riding and only marking each other and not going all out, it has little to do with the parcours and more to do with the mindset of the riders. If this continues it won't surprise me if people like Rujano, Anton and Gadret who at least attempt to do something to finish up on the podium, even though they are behind the other contenders at the moment
 
May 15, 2009
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roundabout said:
What's that got to do with anything?

Do I have to be a cook to tell that the food is bad?

You don't. Though the criticism is pointless if there is no suggestion on how to make things better.
 
13, 14 and 15 all finish with MTFs and are insanely hard, which encourages defensive racing. It's like the three stages in the Vuelta 09 when Evans and Gesink attacked only on the third day, Valverde cracked but managed to recover in the flatter final kms and had it in the bag.
 
Feb 14, 2010
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I didn't read the original post, because with the danger of the Crostis out of the way, I love the corsa rosa. We've had a lot of different stage winners from different teams. There are killer mountain finishes Saturday and Sunday, and a mountain Time Trial Tuesday. The weather and the scenery have been great. Rujano being unable to help on Etna, but able to work today and earn a stage win was excellent. A lot of guys claim they'll fight for stage wins, and Rujano wants to bump someone off the podium.

If people complain about Stages 13, 14, 15 & 16, you'll never be satisfied, and may as well watch ATOC and pretend Schleck can win :eek:
 
Jul 27, 2009
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With AC as dominant as he has been, I think a mountainous race would be best chance at someone upsetting him. I realize that saying a race heavy with MTFs is the way to beat AC sounds completely illogical, but what other choice is there for a proper GT?

A flat race without any MTFs is not a GT.

A stage race consisting of a series of hilly classic-type stages would be cool, but you probably can't find that enough stages like that.

A GT with a ton of flat ITT kms would be a good bet, but the dominant ones there who could gain time on AC would have trouble getting over any big mountains.

If I were to try to design a true GT course that would enable someone to beat AC, a mountainous course would be the choice.

In the current peloton, there are more "good enough" climbers that can challenge AC with hope to hold on in the ITTs than there are time trialists who can put enough time into AC that cannot be overcome in the mountains. In other words, AC is less dominant in the TT over the climbers relative to his dominance in the mountians vs. the time trialists.

In any event it is "pick your poison," but in a weird way, I think the way to beat AC in a GT is on a hilly course.

Not gonna happen this year, though.

EDIT: I have no criticism of this year's Giro route.
 

Polish

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Mar 11, 2009
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The Race for second is still close!
16 riders with less than 3 minutes between them.

And who knows - after CAS - second may become first

2 Vincenzo Nibali (Ita) Liquigas-Cannondale 0:03:09
3 Michele Scarponi (Ita) Lampre - ISD 0:03:16
4 David Arroyo Duran (Spa) Movistar Team 0:03:25

5 Roman Kreuziger (Cze) Pro Team Astana 0:03:29
6 Kanstantsin Sivtsov (Blr) HTC-Highroad 0:03:53
7 Igor Anton Hernandez (Spa) Euskaltel-Euskadi 0:04:02
8 John Gadret (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale 0:04:06
9 Matteo Carrara (Ita) Vacansoleil-DCM Pro Cycling Team 0:04:35
10 Hubert Dupont (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale 0:04:38
11 Denis Menchov (Rus) Geox-TMC 0:05:06

12 Vasili Kiryienka (Blr) Movistar Team 0:05:08
13 Dario Cataldo (Ita) Quickstep Cycling Team 0:05:15
14 Joaquím Rodríguez Oliver (Spa) Katusha Team 0:05:26
15 Francesco Masciarelli (Ita) Pro Team Astana 0:05:28
16 Christophe Le Mevel (Fra) Team Garmin-Cervelo 0:05:29
17 José Rujano Guillen (Ven) Androni Giocattoli 0:05:57
 
Polish said:
The Race for second is still close!
16 riders with less than 3 minutes between them.

And who knows - after CAS - second may become first

2 Vincenzo Nibali (Ita) Liquigas-Cannondale 0:03:09
3 Michele Scarponi (Ita) Lampre - ISD 0:03:16
4 David Arroyo Duran (Spa) Movistar Team 0:03:25

5 Roman Kreuziger (Cze) Pro Team Astana 0:03:29
6 Kanstantsin Sivtsov (Blr) HTC-Highroad 0:03:53
7 Igor Anton Hernandez (Spa) Euskaltel-Euskadi 0:04:02
8 John Gadret (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale 0:04:06
9 Matteo Carrara (Ita) Vacansoleil-DCM Pro Cycling Team 0:04:35
10 Hubert Dupont (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale 0:04:38
11 Denis Menchov (Rus) Geox-TMC 0:05:06

12 Vasili Kiryienka (Blr) Movistar Team 0:05:08
13 Dario Cataldo (Ita) Quickstep Cycling Team 0:05:15
14 Joaquím Rodríguez Oliver (Spa) Katusha Team 0:05:26
15 Francesco Masciarelli (Ita) Pro Team Astana 0:05:28
16 Christophe Le Mevel (Fra) Team Garmin-Cervelo 0:05:29
17 José Rujano Guillen (Ven) Androni Giocattoli 0:05:57
LOL.

This would have been a great spectacle without AC. Everybody would be praising the Giro route. I even think that without AC we would have seen more attacks by the lesser riders. Irony.
 
Escarabajo said:
LOL.

This would have been a great spectacle without AC. Everybody would be praising the Giro route. I even think that without AC we would have seen more attacks by the lesser riders. Irony.

I commented on the stage thread earlier today that the organizer should have just paid Contador to stay at the beach. Then we would have had a more exciting race because it would have been much more wide open.

I don't have any problems with the course although it may make riders hesitant to attack at times. I still would rather have this than the insanely long flat stages that always follow the same format. The only thing that I really want to see that hasn't happened yet, is for a breakaway rider to actually succeed, but you can't blame the course for that.
 
Jul 27, 2009
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Highlander said:
I commented on the stage thread earlier today that the organizer should have just paid Contador to stay at the beach. Then we would have had a more exciting race because it would have been much more wide open.

I don't have any problems with the course although it may make riders hesitant to attack at times. I still would rather have this than the insanely long flat stages that always follow the same format. The only thing that I really want to see that hasn't happened yet, is for a breakaway rider to actually succeed, but you can't blame the course for that.

I'd like to see it on a mountainous stage. Who will step up and channel his inner Chiappucci?
 
This is because of the UCI trying to create a sense of humanity after the tragedy of WW and, unfortunately, cover its a$$ for any liability .

Makes sense, but if nobody died, this wouldn't have come up. Terrible to admit, though this is the case.
 
May 3, 2010
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What we don't know is how Dertie's clinic related troubles are impacting upon how RK, Nibs and Scarponi are riding. As has been argued elsewhere, it appears that most of them are marking each other and not bothering with Dertie - they view him as you would someone who is 20 minutes down on GC because in the end he is not going to impact on the GC.

That said the emasculation of tomorrows stage seems to be due to Dertie spending all his time crying and moaning about it, combined with the UCI being completely incompetent.
 
Aug 11, 2009
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A few weeks before the start of this Giro, I posted that it had the potential to be really boring if a rider like Contador was simply a cut above the rest.

This year's route is tailor-made for one man to absolutely steamroll the competition. I stand behind that assessment. Unless Contador gets sick or has a bad day, this Giro will be a runaway.

Generally, a few summit finishes paired with long, flat ITT's and some transitional mountain stages for the attackers produces more changes in race leadership than simply scheduling a massive number of epic summit finish days.
 
Mar 31, 2010
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Escarabajo said:
LOL.

This would have been a great spectacle without AC. Everybody would be praising the Giro route. I even think that without AC we would have seen more attacks by the lesser riders. Irony.

without ac rujano would've dominated the race
 
Jul 27, 2009
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Ryo Hazuki said:
without ac rujano would've dominated the race

Still a little over a week to go, and it is looking good for 2nd on the podium, but let's not get too carried away about Rujano. It's not as if he is in 2nd already.

We'll see what happens tomorrow and Sunday, but I get the sense that AC is toying with all of them, including Rujano.
 
The race has 1 big problem. That is all, no need for deep analysis, just 1 problem that ruins it.

Well a minor point is that they took out the Crostis.

But most most importantly

1 Contador decided to ride.

that is all.