google. what do you think?

[c&cfan]

true.

I think Churchill said something like, If you find a career doing something you love then its not work - paraphrasing badly, sorry.

Things like the 20% of time spent on your own projects is something that many of my co-workers would die to have.

If you love your work that much you don't notice this: http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2011-12-19/

Martin318is,

What I said about google does not deserve discussion, since it is public knowledge. I didn't start this thread to discuss that, let the courts do it.
It is also common knowledge that google is year after year considered the best or one of the best companies to work.

Yes, I used the "unlike apple" a lot, and yes, Steve said that. but please, provide more than one example from apple stealing (illegally) something or offering an illegal product.

Guess what, for healthy competition we don't need that.
The whole industry isn't copying each other.
But there exist 4 or 5 big corporations that do nothing besides copy those who really provide something good and new, and the same 4 or 5 that uses patents to stop innovation.

Ballmer is seen as a joke and curiously Bill is now seen as some sort of angel, but look at this. Once gates left, microsoft stopped being evil. Windows stopped in time, that's true. maybe this year it is going to change. But they had tablet pc (destroyed by iPad, true), zune (destroyed by iPod), xbox, winphone.

Windows phone is healthy competition, it isn't a low quality copy like android.
xBox is competition and their windows tablets are also competition. Same with windows 7.
WebOS was also competition.

Google does not provide healthy competition. they illegally offer less, for less (android), they use patents not to protect their products like apple and microsoft are doing, but to counter sue, buying them here and there. Samsung and HTC are the same with Samsung being the worst in this industry.

they were successfully granted almost 5000 patents, just behind IBM. They are in the top 3 for years. what did samsung innovate in recent years? nothing or almost nothing.

Here is the reason for the "unlike apple",

-they changed desktops and laptops. guess what, it doesn't matter if your computer has 2 gb or 40 gb of ram. what matters if your computer can do what you want (work) flawlessly.

- when Microsoft and Sony were going to do something that would stop us from sharing music without pay, here comes something amazing. the iPod.

-iTunes Store. it's easy and cheaper to buy not only music and tv shows but also apps. Less piracy.

-iphone. Revolution.

-air.

-ipad.

Each one of those products changed the market and are market leaders. Sorry, Apple is the one pushing us forward.

What i wanted to discuss is:

- Is it better for us to have google knowing what they do and how they do it?
do we need the "evil"?

 

[Ferminal]

Remind me how many years iTunes had awful DRM policies in place?

 

[c&cfan]

The whole industry is about copying bits from successful designers, how else do products move forward? If it's patent violation, if it's stealing... call it that, but everyone does it. I'd much prefer to live in this world than the zero competition alternative.

we are not talking about doping.
See first office apps, see the iPod, iPad, iphone, itunes store, imac, air, pro, tablet pc, blackberry, etc.

there was no copying there and for each one of those products the industry gave a huge step forward.

then look at google, samsung, HTC and what they do.

 

[c&cfan]

Remind me how many years iTunes had awful DRM policies in place?

After or before reminding you that if it wasn't for itunes and the ipod you couldn't listen to music like you do, thanks to sony and microsoft?

Apple has it's flaws, no one is denying that. but please, be reasonable.
they are now enjoying the sucess and the fruits of the hardwork that they started in 96.

 

[Ferminal]

After or before reminding you that if it wasn't for itunes and the ipod you couldn't listen to music like you do, thanks to sony and microsoft?

Apple has it's flaws, no one is denying that. but please, be reasonable.
they are now enjoying the sucess and the fruits of the hardwork that they started in 96.

What do you mean? I'm fairly sure there were flash and hard drive mp3 players before the Apple iPod (just like there were online media stores before iTunes). On such players, you actually had the freedom and flexibility to be able to drop and drag any mp3 from your PC onto your music device. But wow, on Apple the only way to get media onto a device was (and still is) via iTunes, aren't they supposed to be the good guys?

 

[boomcie]

What do you mean? I'm fairly sure there were flash and hard drive mp3 players before the Apple iPod (just like there were online media stores before iTunes). On such players, you actually had the freedom and flexibility to be able to drop and drag any mp3 from your PC onto your music device. But wow, on Apple the only way to get media onto a device was (and still is) via iTunes, aren't they supposed to be the good guys?

Exactly!

That bugs the hell out of me. iTunes is terrible. There should be a way around it, because it has 0 flexibility.

The iPod I had a few years ago was just terrible. I could only add music from one PC, that's just silly. Why on earth does someone need to install iTunes in order to listen to friggin' mp3's?

I barely used that device for music. Mostly as a mobile hard drive.

 

[c&cfan]

Exactly!

That bugs the hell out of me. iTunes is terrible. There should be a way around it, because it has 0 flexibility.

The iPod I had a few years ago was just terrible. I could only add music from one PC, that's just silly. Why on earth does someone need to install iTunes in order to listen to friggin' mp3's?

I barely used that device for music. Mostly as a mobile hard drive.

you can do that now.
Sony Microsoft and other companies were close to concluding a deal that would forever stop "drag and drop" music files, between other things. Well, it wouldn't stop it, but you would be charged for it.

why is itunes terrible? it is much more than a music player and it is only becoming better. it also reduced piracy. Now, you can argue that you just want to listen to some music so you don't need "all" that. that's true. it is also true that itunes is almost useless in lesser windows machines. But when i connect my iPod to my mac, i can quickly and efortlessly do things that i wouldn't be able to do without itunes, like copy genius lists, automaticaly sincronizing podcasts, playlists etc. and with icloud and other stuff that is coming it is only gettng better. The coolest part is that itunes has zillions of features, looks great, and only eats 120mb of ram. doesn't it works in the same way with new windows computers?

2001 was a very different time. like i said apple has it's flaws, but the sucess of the iPod and iTunes were a game changer. let me tell you something, since 96, ther's only one company always pushing the tech industry forward. that's apple, that's why i like them.

well, i guess apple is paying the price for their sucess, they are becoming too big... maybe they should do like the others. they (especially steve) should have donated zillions in front of a tv for god and the people forgive their sins, instead of doing ir privately, they should release source code 1 or 2 years after releasing a OS or a program and scream that they are open and "free". they release webkit, but they don't scream "we are open" so it doesn't count.

Ferminal

you make no sense. why using itunes and try to avoid piracy makes them bad? it's the other way around...
having said that,you can do it since how many years? No one has 0 debt and 100.000.000.000$ in the bank while being an angel, but you can't see them as evil. they are not evil. there's no evidence of that. they pay for the use of 3rd party patents just like it should be, unlike google samsung and htc, they use their patents to innovate, unlike google samsung and htc. just because they only do high-end and premium products they are not evil. google is.

Do you use android?i do. what do you think about it? they illegally used java, they copied iOS, they violated dozens of patents and since bringing android down would be some sort of apocalipse for the globe, they are "only" going to pay a few billions. again, what do you think? should we work or steal?

 

[Ferminal]

Apple are a great company, no one has better understood the common consumer in recent times. None of their core ideas have been unique, they are simply great at taking those ideas and building them into something which a huge number of people find pleasure in using.

I do not see what is wrong with a company like HTC taking the core ideas from products like Apple's, but stylised to the consumer in their own way. This is all Apple did with their most successful products. The whole fighting over patents between these ridiculously rich corporations is BS, the true ingenuity in all these products is years/decades old.

you make no sense. why using itunes and try to avoid piracy makes them bad? it's the other way around...

If I pay money for something I expect to be able to use it as I please. Years ago I bought things on iTunes, and was unable to use them the way I wanted to. DRM is as much a competition/antitrust issue as a piracy one.

 

[c&cfan]

Apple are a great company, no one has better understood the common consumer in recent times. None of their core ideas have been unique, they are simply great at taking those ideas and building them into something which a huge number of people find pleasure in using.

I do not see what is wrong with a company like HTC taking the core ideas from products like Apple's, but stylised to the consumer in their own way. This is all Apple did with their most successful products. The whole fighting over patents between these ridiculously rich corporations is BS, the true ingenuity in all these products is years/decades old.

I have to agree with you in the first paragraph.

HTC.. how can i start,
they are (except samsung) the biggest joke around in the tech industry. they innovate 0. they violate a lot. they don't pay for the right to infringe in certain patents. As a result the smart microsoft sued them and they now pay 5 to 15$ for each android handset they sell. them apple sued them and the bad thing about apple is that they don't want money, they want destruction.

So HTC, that appeared like a rocket and made lots of profits is now in a fragile financial situation and they must defend themselves in court against apple and even motorolla (i guess).

So some strange and interesting things started to take place. HTC heard of this company that was thinking about sue apple (S3 graphics) so they made an offer to buy them. S3 has nothing to do with HTC business but they decided to play dirty and made an offer and quickly sued apple based in those patents. as quickly as they sued, apple won in court so those patents became useless and HTC stoped the deal to acquire S3. both stocks imploded.

Then the smart MMotorolla CEO said something amazing. "we have a huge patent portfolio" (they are in the game long before apple and microsoft existed) "and we are going to sue those that violate them" (namely fragile HTC, samsung and others), as a result google was forced to buy them with 60% premium. p.s.: Moto is bleeding money.....

So, because of android all OEMs pay 5 to 15$ to microsoft, all of them besides sony are in court with apple and google already spent 15 billion trying to protect their crime. android is the free most expensive thing ever lol

watch out for oracle... this one is really serious. as their CEO said:
"winning is not enough. they must fail." he was also a great friend of jobs, same jobs who said that based on his will he would destroy android and google.

 

[Ferminal]

I have to agree with you in the first paragraph.

HTC.. how can i start,
they are (except samsung) the biggest joke around in the tech industry. they innovate 0. they violate a lot. they don't pay for the right to infringe in certain patents. As a result the smart microsoft sued them and they now pay 5 to 15$ for each android handset they sell. them apple sued them and the bad thing about apple is that they don't want money, they want destruction.

So HTC, that appeared like a rocket and made lots of profits is now in a fragile financial situation and they must defend themselves in court against apple and even motorolla (i guess).

So some strange and interesting things started to take place. HTC heard of this company that was thinking about sue apple (S3 graphics) so they made an offer to buy them. S3 has nothing to do with HTC business but they decided to play dirty and made an offer and quickly sued apple based in those patents. as quickly as they sued, apple won in court so those patents became useless and HTC stoped the deal to acquire S3. both stocks imploded.

Then the smart MMotorolla CEO said something amazing. "we have a huge patent portfolio" (they are in the game long before apple and microsoft existed) "and we are going to sue those that violate them" (namely fragile HTC, samsung and others), as a result google was forced to buy them with 60% premium. p.s.: Moto is bleeding money.....

So, because of android all OEMs pay 5 to 15$ to microsoft, all of them besides sony are in court with apple and google already spent 15 billion trying to protect their crime. android is the free most expensive thing ever lol

watch out for oracle... this one is really serious. as their CEO said:
"winning is not enough. they must fail." he was also a great friend of jobs, same jobs who said that based on his will he would destroy android and google.

Fair enough, I do not know the finer details of the patent disputes to say that one is acting more/less ethically than the other. Maybe I'll do some reading.

 

[boomcie]

you can do that now.
Sony Microsoft and other companies were close to concluding a deal that would forever stop "drag and drop" music files, between other things. Well, it wouldn't stop it, but you would be charged for it.

why is itunes terrible? it is much more than a music player and it is only becoming better. it also reduced piracy. Now, you can argue that you just want to listen to some music so you don't need "all" that. that's true. it is also true that itunes is almost useless in lesser windows machines. But when i connect my iPod to my mac, i can quickly and efortlessly do things that i wouldn't be able to do without itunes, like copy genius lists, automaticaly sincronizing podcasts, playlists etc. and with icloud and other stuff that is coming it is only gettng better. The coolest part is that itunes has zillions of features, looks great, and only eats 120mb of ram. doesn't it works in the same way with new windows computers?

2001 was a very different time. like i said apple has it's flaws, but the sucess of the iPod and iTunes were a game changer. let me tell you something, since 96, ther's only one company always pushing the tech industry forward. that's apple, that's why i like them.

I admit they have come a long way since and have created some pretty cool products, but you are clearly an Apple fanatic.

It's becoming clear to me now that this thread is your personal fortified Apple temple. I'm not going to be the one trying to convince you that they are crooks, just like all the others.

It's mostly just an image as far as I'm concerned.

 

[c&cfan]

I admit they have come a long way since and have created some pretty cool products, but you are clearly an Apple fanatic.

It's becoming clear to me now that this thread is your personal fortified Apple temple. I'm not going to be the one trying to convince you that they are crooks, just like all the others.

It's mostly just an image as far as I'm concerned.

Because i admire them = fanatic?
I started to talk about them as an example, just like I did with microsoft.

what's your problem?