Graham Watson: Keeper of Omerta

[Nick C.]

if no one responds then isn't it the sound of one hand clapping.

 

[Polish]

I think Polish lost the plot...

I lost the plot? Do you know the plot?

Watson has more cycling wisdom stuck between his teeth than many clinic posters.

Watson will tinkle away more cycling knowledge after a late night beer drinking session than many posters on this forum will ever have. Ok a torrent not a tinkle.

With that in mind, if Watson believes that Haterz have done much more damage to the sport of Pro Cycling the the Omerta Gang, he should not be ridiculed.

Ever since doping became illegal at the TdF in the 60's, Pro Cycling has dealt with the dopers without hatred and theatrics and witch hunting and grandstanding. The 60's and 70's and 80's and 90's - dopers were dealt with.

In Y2K, the haterz began to change the sport.
Mr Watson is entitled to his knowedgable opinion
Watson is not a stupid douchebag. He is not stupid.

Here is a snap from his beautiful Coffee Table Book "20 Years of Cycling Photography" released in 2000.

 

[buckwheat]

Follow the money.

I lost the plot? Do you know the plot?

Watson has more cycling wisdom stuck between his teeth than many clinic posters.

Watson will tinkle away more cycling knowledge after a late night beer drinking session than many posters on this forum will ever have. Ok a torrent not a tinkle.

With that in mind, if Watson believes that Haterz have done much more damage to the sport of Pro Cycling the the Omerta Gang, he should not be ridiculed.

Ever since doping became illegal at the TdF in the 60's, Pro Cycling has dealt with the dopers without hatred and theatrics and witch hunting and grandstanding. The 60's and 70's and 80's and 90's - dopers were dealt with.

In Y2K, the haterz began to change the sport.
Mr Watson is entitled to his knowedgable opinion
Watson is not a stupid douchebag. He is not stupid.

Here is a snap from his beautiful Coffee Table Book "20 Years of Cycling Photography" released in 2000.

If that fat fanboy money grabbing bastid Watson knows so much about cycling he should apply just a little of it to himself and have some self respect with regard to closing his pie hole.

 

[flicker]

If that fat fanboy money grabbing bastid Watson knows so much about cycling he should apply just a little of it to himself and have some self respect with regard to closing his pie hole.

I love the sport of cycling and feel Mr. Watson chronicles the sport well. Plus I trust his judgement.

Please: if the haters here would please explain the hate.

Afterwords could you tell us who you like and what you like about the sport of cycling.

 

[ultimobici]

Ever since doping became illegal at the TdF in the 60's, Pro Cycling has dealt with the dopers without hatred and theatrics and witch hunting and grandstanding. The 60's and 70's and 80's and 90's - dopers were dealt with.

No, the doping was less pervasive up until EPO entered the doping arsenal. Come the late 90's it was impossible to ignore especially in the wake of Festina.

In Y2K, the haterz began to change the sport.

It wasn't hatred, rather the very real risk that Cycling would be booted out of the Olympics due to the high profile that the problem had gained.

Mr Watson is entitled to his knowedgable opinion

As is anyone, but it does not put him beyond criticism.

Watson is not a stupid douchebag. He is not stupid.

His actions on his site suggest that his judgement may be biased.

Just because someone is more knowledgeable on a subject it does not necessarily follow that they are able to represent the actual facts accurately or fairly.

He does take very nice pictures, but then so do Roberto Bettini, Sirotti & Cor Vos. Another is Sergio Penazzo who took the iconic picture of Hampsten on the Gavia in the 88 Giro.

 

[Polish]

No, the doping was less pervasive up until EPO entered the doping arsenal. Come the late 90's it was impossible to ignore especially in the wake of Festina.

It wasn't hatred, rather the very real risk that Cycling would be booted out of the Olympics due to the high profile that the problem had gained.
As is anyone, but it does not put him beyond criticism.
His actions on his site suggest that his judgement may be biased.

Just because someone is more knowledgeable on a subject it does not necessarily follow that they are able to represent the actual facts accurately or fairly.

He does take very nice pictures, but then so do Roberto Bettini, Sirotti & Cor Vos. Another is Sergio Penazzo who took the iconic picture of Hampsten on the Gavia in the 88 Giro.
]

I'll see your frosty Penazzo/Hampsten and raise you a muddy Watson/LeMond:

Watson's comment: "Despite being splattered by mud by the cobbled roads of Paris-Roubaix, Greg LeMond said he loved this race"

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

No one said he wasn't a good photographer. He's been one of the best in the last few decades.

As to opinions from mods. I will let Martin speak for himself, but I will firmly stand by what I posted before, as I believe it to be factually based, and not just an opinion based on biased preference. If someone would like to start a thread about the omerta, or about whether the sport has a doping problem or not, or whether the sport has a poor image, then I won't stop them.

Everyone in the industry seems willing to turn a blind eye so long as the money keeps rolling in. Pro Cycling is a sick patient.

I see the very same thing as you.

 

[flicker]

Watson does not make toilet where he eats. Neither do Merckx, Bruyneel etc.

They know the issues. They make the correct moves. Except for the quality of the drugs and carbon wheels the nature of cycling remains the same.

 

[Berzin]

It is the height of disrespect to publicly label one of his most iconic subjects a fool just because Lemond sees something that obviously, through his many telephoto lenses, Watson refuses to see.

The only thing Watson knows is photography. He is the one who should be quiet, because he has lost his objectivity a long time ago.

Watson, Liggett, Sherwen and that disgusting hamster-faced moron Bob Roll are nothing but prostitutes who will blindly follow their pimp Armstrong off a cliff if it means more money in their pockets.

 

[MarkvW]

Defamation and Insult

The namecalling on this forum is infantile, weak dung. If you can't insult someone with wit and humor, then stop typing on your computer and go ride your bike.

 

[Benotti69]

The namecalling on this forum is infantile, weak dung. If you can't insult someone with wit and humor, then stop typing on your computer and go ride your bike.

these guys have bikes???????

 

[Polish]

No one said he wasn't a good photographer. .

You are right, no one called him a bad photographer.

Instead they called him a douchebag, stupid, sycophant, clinically obese, salad tosser, idiot, freaking douche, prostitute, and a fat bastid lol.

Of course, none of that would bother Mr Watson
He has come to expect that sigh
Might be part of the point he was making.

Gosh, it might make sense for Mr Watson to advise his readership to avoid purchasing or visiting CyclingNews in order to avoid the hateful immaturity.

Watson: " A youthful Sean Yates, before he lost weight, struggles up the
Capo Berta in the 1983 Milan-San Remo."

 

[hiero2]

Enough with the off topic Dribble please

Shouldn't that be drivel? Huh? Oh --- wait ----- wasn't Dribble a cartoon character on TV???????

 

[Berzin]

The namecalling on this forum is infantile, weak dung. If you can't insult someone with wit and humor, then stop typing on your computer and go ride your bike.

I type while riding the indoor rollers no-handed.

So I get to ride AND commentate on the forum. I learned this amazing skill as a retort to comments like yours.

 

[hiero2]

I'm not a particular Watson fan. But I think Polish has at least part of it right.

. . .With that in mind, if Watson believes that Haterz have done much more damage to the sport of Pro Cycling the the Omerta Gang, he should not be ridiculed.

Ever since doping became illegal at the TdF in the 60's, Pro Cycling has dealt with the dopers without hatred and theatrics and witch hunting and grandstanding. The 60's and 70's and 80's and 90's - dopers were dealt with.

In Y2K, the haterz began to change the sport. . . .

Watson is entitled to his image. At this point in time, he has become so iconic, he doesn't care if he upsets some people.

Personally, I agree with the others, that this was disrespectful of Watson, but whatever - he has the right to be disrespectful.

Now, as to the TdF taking care of dopers in the 90's, well, you can't jail what you can't detect. So, no, the TdF didn't take care of dopers in the 1990's. And, for a while, it doesn't appear that they even tried to. There is certainly a great deal of evidence that points to that. It has also become obvious that doping became MUCH more prevalent, and MUCH more effective, with much less risk to the riders of side effects.

Anyway, it's all fun to read, but we are making a tempest in a teapot.

 

[Darryl Webster]

Watson does not make toilet where he eats. Neither do Merckx, Bruyneel etc.

They know the issues. They make the correct moves. Except for the quality of the drugs and carbon wheels the nature of cycling remains the same.

They make the "correct" moves to stay in favour...but I guess thats what you mean?.
The "hate" as you like to call is because EPO turned GT`s into cyclings equivelent of farce and made the possibility of competing for gc without the strong stuff impossible.
Theres a huge differance between the drugs of the differant of previous era`s is that "old skool " at ,best made 1...1.5% improvement..not enough to insure a clean rider couldn`t compete.
5..15% of he EPO era is whole diffferant ball game.
Many of the drugs were stimulents to fight tiredness...but unlike EPO they didnt actully make you less tired..just masked it..but your body was still doing the work. Hence it was commen for even the very best to "hit the wall" and have bad days.
Any one who`s ever taken recreational speed and partied will tell ya that when the effects wear off your body lets ya know big style and you as cream crackered as you would be clean ...with EPO era cocktails your not...your actualy recovered.
Most of what you call hate..I`d call it disgust, is reserved for a particulerly disingenous Texan . After the Festina afair many peeps hoped the peloton might turn its back on EPO..said Texan and his mery band of robots insured that couldnt happen.
As if that wasnt bad enough, his behaviour of the bike, his having the UCI in his pocket, his downright nastiness towards any one who questions the validity of what he`s done and his "untouchable" abuse of the cancer issue turn many a persons stomach.
No doper of the previous eras ever showed such disrespect to iether the peloton or the knowledgable fans.
It comes across that your view of Gt`s is there like Panto`s..not to be taken as "serious" athletic endevour but viewed as pure entertainment and that realy the pro scen is nothing but a soap opera.
It`s a view im tempted to share in so many ways..but what stops me is that I know it can be so much more and from the 50`s to the late 80`s it was.
And I`ve a "soft spot" for the ideals of sport..hopelessly idealistic I guess you might say?.

I suspect the "real world" you refer is the corrupt xxxx hole it`s been made into by over reaching greed ..and in that your bang on the money.
However theres several ways to respond to that...embrace it ..ignore it..or scorn it and fight it.
Thankfully theres people still taking the hard options .

As for Watson, great photograher...file under "Cycling Pimp"

 

[miloman]

As for Watson, great photograher...file under "Cycling Pimp"

Is he really great or is he a good photographer who saw an opportunity to make some cash by concentrating on cycling? Over the past 4 or 5 years I would argue that some of the best cycling pics haven't come through the lens of Watson but others. I'm surprrised he is so inept at public relations. He really did a lot of damage to himself when all he had to do was act like a pro cyclist and deny, deny, deny. Question, who would pass the $50. buddy test? If you loaned both Watson and LeMond $50. who do you think would pay you back. It's a question of integrity and character.

 

[flicker]

They make the "correct" moves to stay in favour...but I guess thats what you mean?.
The "hate" as you like to call is because EPO turned GT`s into cyclings equivelent of farce and made the possibility of competing for gc without the strong stuff impossible.
Theres a huge differance between the drugs of the differant of previous era`s is that "old skool " at ,best made 1...1.5% improvement..not enough to insure a clean rider couldn`t compete.
5..15% of he EPO era is whole diffferant ball game.
Many of the drugs were stimulents to fight tiredness...but unlike EPO they didnt actully make you less tired..just masked it..but your body was still doing the work. Hence it was commen for even the very best to "hit the wall" and have bad days.
Any one who`s ever taken recreational speed and partied will tell ya that when the effects wear off your body lets ya know big style and you as cream crackered as you would be clean ...with EPO era cocktails your not...your actualy recovered.
Most of what you call hate..I`d call it disgust, is reserved for a particulerly disingenous Texan . After the Festina afair many peeps hoped the peloton might turn its back on EPO..said Texan and his mery band of robots insured that couldnt happen.
As if that wasnt bad enough, his behaviour of the bike, his having the UCI in his pocket, his downright nastiness towards any one who questions the validity of what he`s done and his "untouchable" abuse of the cancer issue turn many a persons stomach.
No doper of the previous eras ever showed such disrespect to iether the peloton or the knowledgable fans.
It comes across that your view of Gt`s is there like Panto`s..not to be taken as "serious" athletic endevour but viewed as pure entertainment and that realy the pro scen is nothing but a soap opera.
It`s a view im tempted to share in so many ways..but what stops me is that I know it can be so much more and from the 50`s to the late 80`s it was.
And I`ve a "soft spot" for the ideals of sport..hopelessly idealistic I guess you might say?.

I suspect the "real world" you refer is the corrupt xxxx hole it`s been made into by over reaching greed ..and in that your bang on the money.
However theres several ways to respond to that...embrace it ..ignore it..or scorn it and fight it.
Thankfully theres people still taking the hard options .

As for Watson, great photograher...file under "Cycling Pimp"

I enjoy the spectacle and the sport. I hate the accusations and finger pointing. As for doping it is good to talk about but hard to clean up. I understand EPO and Auto blood doping between this forum and medical pros and my own experience in cycling.

Does EPO help does Auto blood doping help? I say yes and it is probably safe if monitored closely by experienced medical staff. Not something to play with! never.

I say big dopers Maertens and his Flandria team. How many of them are dead now? Those are the guys I really studied as hard core dopers and no EPO no Blood transfussions! How could doping be worse than the pathetic case of Marc de Meyer?

 

[scribe]

Is he really great or is he a good photographer who saw an opportunity to make some cash by concentrating on cycling? Over the past 4 or 5 years I would argue that some of the best cycling pics haven't come through the lens of Watson but others. I'm surprrised he is so inept at public relations. He really did a lot of damage to himself when all he had to do was act like a pro cyclist and deny, deny, deny. Question, who would pass the $50. buddy test? If you loaned both Watson and LeMond $50. who do you think would pay you back. It's a question of integrity and character.

With Watson? Probably wouldn't get it back
With LeMond? I'd be afraid he'd accuse me of trying to pass counterfeit money.

 

[Darryl Webster]

Bit of a cheep shot re Marc de Mayer, his sudden death from a heart atack while doing a crossword puzzle at home aged 31 while shocking had NO evidence of being drug related , only pure conjecture.
Such is the nature of life.
As for how many of the Flandria Team are now dead I`v no idea, have you?

A list would be nice...oh..and cause of death!

Meanwhile ponder the suspect deaths from the Pantani/ Armstrong era:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/cycling/3495967.stm

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Is he really great or is he a good photographer who saw an opportunity to make some cash by concentrating on cycling? Over the past 4 or 5 years I would argue that some of the best cycling pics haven't come through the lens of Watson but others. I'm surprrised he is so inept at public relations. He really did a lot of damage to himself when all he had to do was act like a pro cyclist and deny, deny, deny. Question, who would pass the $50. buddy test? If you loaned both Watson and LeMond $50. who do you think would pay you back. It's a question of integrity and character.

I think Watsons 'URL' and his comments when it was pointed out were pretty stupid. He is a photographer and does not need to make any comments/opinions in public.

I agree with you to a point - although (IMO) I do think he is a great photographer.
But, I am struggling to think of when he produced a great piece in the last few years. Perhaps I don't see as much of his work as back in the 80's & 90's - but a lot of the shots he does now are from the same places he has gone to for years and lack originality.

 

[Polish]

The "hate" as you like to call is because EPO turned GT`s into cyclings equivelent of farce and made the possibility of competing for gc without the strong stuff impossible.

Darryl, do you think EPO is still being used to win Grand Tours?

Floyd seemed to indicate that the EPO ERA ended and the Blood Transfusion Era began many years ago. Ten years ago?

For winning Grand Tours, the EPO ERA seemed to END just as the Haterz Uprising was just beginning.

I think it is time to stop using EPO as an excuse to be angry....

I love the sport of cycling and feel Mr. Watson chronicles the sport well. Plus I trust his judgement.

Please: if the haters here would please explain the hate.

Afterwords could you tell us who you like and what you like about the sport of cycling.

I like SunFlowers and French Meat dishes

 

[Darryl Webster]

Darryl, do you think EPO is still being used to win Grand Tours?

Floyd seemed to indicate that the EPO ERA ended and the Blood Transfusion Era began many years ago. Ten years ago?

For winning Grand Tours, the EPO ERA seemed to END just as the Haterz Uprising was just beginning.

I think it is time to stop using EPO as an excuse to be angry....

Of course its still being used..with the BIO passport acting as a kinda safety brake to reduce the death rate.
Good thing, bad thing? ..Good thing in my view.
Micro dosing, out of compettition, curvcumvented testing and pay offs are all known methods of keeping it in use
Not altering the landscape of the GT`s quite as bad as a few years ago during your hero`s 50 + % days but if we take the lower estimate of say a 5% gain in performance thats still 3 1/2 % more than the pre Epo drugs era that put gains at 1...1 1/2 %.
Or put another way twice or possibly 3 times the advantage gained from pre EPO Peds.
That is a gap that I`d sugest cant be closed by the clean rider.

 

[ChrisE]

A dose of GL criticism, a dash of tut-tutting, a pinch of arrogance, stir in the clinic pot.

Presto. Chafing for days!

 

[HoustonHammer]

Is he really great or is he a good photographer who saw an opportunity to make some cash by concentrating on cycling? Over the past 4 or 5 years I would argue that some of the best cycling pics haven't come through the lens of Watson but others. I'm surprrised he is so inept at public relations. He really did a lot of damage to himself when all he had to do was act like a pro cyclist and deny, deny, deny. Question, who would pass the $50. buddy test? If you loaned both Watson and LeMond $50. who do you think would pay you back. It's a question of integrity and character.

I would not lend $50 to LeMond. I realize it's a view violently opposed by many (most?) on this forum and I'm past trying to convince anyone, but I refuse to believe that LeMond was as squeaky clean as he would have us believe. His zeal for anti-doping just sets off all of my bullsh*t detectors.