[Green Edge] Shayne Bannan, Gerry Ryan and an Aussie Pro Team for 2012?

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Re: Re:

StryderHells said:
yaco said:
dirkprovin said:
yaco said:
RedheadDane said:
So... seems they haven't had the best of luck in de Panne.
Only started six, Juul-Jensen out during the stage after his crash, and apparently Keukeleire out too...
Actually seven were listed to start - Cort withdrew the day before, Juul-Jensen DNF in stage 1 and Keukeliere DNS in stage 2 - They can only hope Durbridge podiums in the ITT which he should.

Juul-Jensen replaced by Edmondson for RVV - Edmondson showed in stage 1 he can write on hilly, cobbled terrain - Surprised that Edmondson never rode the full classics season.
Edmondson did have a high placing at Junior RVV so there has always been an inkling that this may be fertile ground in future. However, he lost the majority of 2016 season due to track commitments and one suspects that rather than give him just a full cobbles immersion, rather they are looking at giving him a wider cross-section of racing experience for this year. The fact they we are already seeing a couple of brave showings indicate that barring the unforseen, they'll be extending the deal at the end of this season.
Think Edmondson being re-signed is a given - Interesting to see how Orica approach the TDF ( their bogey race ) with Chaves' ongoing injury concerns - At least a month before Chavez can race again and there is little stage racing in May - As much as Chaves goes well off a limited preparation doubt he can only race Dauphine or Suisse and go into the TDF.
Why is the TDF Orica's bogey race? They've had stage wins and also had Yates perform above expectations in last years edition
Orica has won one stage in the last 3 TDF's - Had half their team knocked out in the 2015 crash.
 
Re: Re:

dirkprovin said:
yaco said:
dirkprovin said:
yaco said:
RedheadDane said:
So... seems they haven't had the best of luck in de Panne.
Only started six, Juul-Jensen out during the stage after his crash, and apparently Keukeleire out too...
Actually seven were listed to start - Cort withdrew the day before, Juul-Jensen DNF in stage 1 and Keukeliere DNS in stage 2 - They can only hope Durbridge podiums in the ITT which he should.

Juul-Jensen replaced by Edmondson for RVV - Edmondson showed in stage 1 he can write on hilly, cobbled terrain - Surprised that Edmondson never rode the full classics season.
Edmondson did have a high placing at Junior RVV so there has always been an inkling that this may be fertile ground in future. However, he lost the majority of 2016 season due to track commitments and one suspects that rather than give him just a full cobbles immersion, rather they are looking at giving him a wider cross-section of racing experience for this year. The fact they we are already seeing a couple of brave showings indicate that barring the unforseen, they'll be extending the deal at the end of this season.
Think Edmondson being re-signed is a given - Interesting to see how Orica approach the TDF ( their bogey race ) with Chaves' ongoing injury concerns - At least a month before Chavez can race again and there is little stage racing in May - As much as Chaves goes well off a limited preparation doubt he can only race Dauphine or Suisse and go into the TDF.
Re Chaves, I think there may need to be a readjustment of schedules re the GTs. Rather than leaving it far too late, reset one of the Yates for the Tour i/o Giro and set Chaves for the Vuelta. Whilst not ideal, make the call now rather than be faced with a last minute "fait accompli".
A.Yates is locked into the Giro - S.Yates is riding the Giro but is having a softer buildup to the Giro hence he is racing less than Adam - Possibly Simon could be reset for the TDF - Maybe switch Ewan to the TDF if stage hunting takes precedence over GC. Dilemma's ahead.

As I write this post A.Yates has been replaced by S.Yates for Pais Vasco - Is this related to Chaves.
 
Would love to see Ewan in this race - Super impressed with Edmondson's ride at RVV - Last minute replacement for Juul-Jensen, slow start to the season because of injury,limited riding in the Classics - Predict he will end up a better classics rider than Durbridge.
 
My Giro team prediction

YATES Simon
YATES Adam
VERONA Carlos
PLAZA Rubén
HAIG Jack
EWAN Caleb
KLUGE Roger
MEZGEC Luka
ALBASINI Michael

This seems to be the group they've been keeping more-or-less together in stage races since Abu Dhabi
I see a chance for Edmondson ahead of Albasini
Rob Power next in line for a climber role
 
I agree with that as the team, it's really good too. If I was Ewan I'd really target a stage in the first week, then allow riders like Kluge and Mezgec to aid the two Yates' in keeping them safe and let him get to the finish line by himself. For those first few days I can see an incident where the team's focus is on Ewan and no one helps one of the Yates, which would be bad. I think the only other feasible replacements for Albasini are Hepburn and Keukeleire, who would be able to provide better horsepower for the flats/leadout train but wouldn't be as useful in the mountains.
 
Re:

yaco said:
Would love to see Ewan in this race - Super impressed with Edmondson's ride at RVV - Last minute replacement for Juul-Jensen, slow start to the season because of injury,limited riding in the Classics - Predict he will end up a better classics rider than Durbridge.
Think you may be right re your long term view of Edmondson. Certainly has the standard big track engine but appears to have the enhanced feature of a reasonable sprint finish.

Ewan for what race ? Do hope you weren't referring to either RVV or PR !! Whilst it seems apparent that his endurance has improved significantly; I just don't see him being of any real utility over cobbles and especially the hard raced cobbled hills of the Flandrian season ....... and then there's those cross winds !!

Kuurne-Brussells-Kuurne; where the last hill/sector is something like 50km from the finish & often ends as a bunch sprint is probably about as close as it gets for him. As it is, even with Hayman probably collecting his superannuation come end season, I can't really see an justification for ORS giving him any such prioritisation for these races. Give him a taste like they have this year, certainly, but that's about it.
 
Re:

swuzzlebubble said:
My Giro team prediction

YATES Simon
YATES Adam
VERONA Carlos
PLAZA Rubén
HAIG Jack
EWAN Caleb
KLUGE Roger
MEZGEC Luka
ALBASINI Michael

This seems to be the group they've been keeping more-or-less together in stage races since Abu Dhabi
I see a chance for Edmondson ahead of Albasini
Rob Power next in line for a climber role
Sorry but I'll disagree with you on a few of those selections.

Whilst the plan has been for both Yates to ride Giro, that may get re-set in the next week or so given the Chaves situation with perhaps Simon to Tour and Chaves to Vuelta.

Haig managed to finish the Vuelta last year and its fair to say that he's likely to be at either Giro or Vuelta but he at least had some reasonable race miles under his belt (without being over-raced) before being thrown into a GT.

Given both Power (through injury) & Edmondson (due to Olympics/track) missed 90% of last season, this is essentially their neo-pro year ........ and you are proposing to throw them into a GT with minimal WT level experience ..... and on a team that is seriously pursueing GC ??

As it is already likely to be the case, should Ewan go to Giro, that they will be one rider down come halfway point; can they afford to double up that loss as would almost certainly be the case with one as lightly raced as Power or Edmondson ? ORS' goals and modus opperandi have had to change

Verona >>> can go with that. Plaza >>>> hard to know how he's going and/or what use he'll be. Haig >>>>> should be useful but still a tad early to be throwing too much heavy duty/suspect he'll be used more as a contingency resource/part of set pieces rather than day to day grunt.

I see the likes of Gerrans/Albasini & Impey all fulfilling similar roles of being options for breakaways/set pieces/options for selective finishes/utility to be able to work in the hills. Therefore, I think ORS will split them up and send one to each GT. If anything, I think they may send Impey rather than Albasini to the Giro given his current form plus his track record working with AY at last years Tour.

If both Yates DO go to Giro then I can't see them giving Ewan more than one dedicated support rider. Either Mezgec or Kluge will go but not necessarily both. Also think they may send one "big engine" for the flat land grunt work. Bewley seems to be Chaves' designated minder and Durbridge will probably be wanting a refuel and reload after the cobbles season so it may well be Hepburn who has shown he can finish the Giro and has shown this season some surprising signs when the road has tilted upwards.
 
Re:

StryderHells said:
You never miss a chance to have a bash at Ewan do you Dirk ;)
No, I just see his limitations AND I do not think that, going forward, ORS & he are going to be an optimal pairing.

Yes, he IS very quick and is now able to sustain it for longer. MSR evidenced that his endurance has progressed considerably. These I acknowledge readily. As to whether he will ever be a regular front rank contender for that monument; I still remain sceptical as its likely that Cipressa & Poggio will be raced far harder than this year's edition and him not being part of that action.

Last year's Worlds showed very plainly his weakness in cross-winds. If he's ever going to be a major contender on GT flat stages, unless this can be remedied then his win possibilities narrow even further.

Good on him for racking up some early season wins and points haul; we're just going to have to wait and see whether he's going to be able to consistently match it up against the big boys come peak season when THEY're at their best. You can get away with losing your lead-off man at TDU & still win .....in May, Jul, Aug ??

Hey, he might well develop into a front line bunch kick winner. As regards one day races; from what I've noticed I don't think cobbles are his thing and I doubt he'll ever have the uphill versatility to win Amstel, Bretagne or the Laurentian races. Even Cuddles Race may be an "ask". He won Hamburg last year, I don't know enough about the Frankfurt course to say whether that's viable or not. MSR .... as stated above, maybe but very much conditional on it being an edition that wasn't raced particularly hard.

At a team where sprint wins ARE the prime focus, he may very well prosper and be the significant stage winner some hope he may become. I just don't see that as being ORS; hopefully this will be very clear to both Ewan & his management AND ORS hierarchy in a little over 12 months time
 
Re: Re:

dirkprovin said:
StryderHells said:
You never miss a chance to have a bash at Ewan do you Dirk ;)
No, I just see his limitations AND I do not think that, going forward, ORS & he are going to be an optimal pairing.

Yes, he IS very quick and is now able to sustain it for longer. MSR evidenced that his endurance has progressed considerably. These I acknowledge readily. As to whether he will ever be a regular front rank contender for that monument; I still remain sceptical as its likely that Cipressa & Poggio will be raced far harder than this year's edition and him not being part of that action.

Last year's Worlds showed very plainly his weakness in cross-winds. If he's ever going to be a major contender on GT flat stages, unless this can be remedied then his win possibilities narrow even further.

Good on him for racking up some early season wins and points haul; we're just going to have to wait and see whether he's going to be able to consistently match it up against the big boys come peak season when THEY're at their best. You can get away with losing your lead-off man at TDU & still win .....in May, Jul, Aug ??

Hey, he might well develop into a front line bunch kick winner. As regards one day races; from what I've noticed I don't think cobbles are his thing and I doubt he'll ever have the uphill versatility to win Amstel, Bretagne or the Laurentian races. Even Cuddles Race may be an "ask". He won Hamburg last year, I don't know enough about the Frankfurt course to say whether that's viable or not. MSR .... as stated above, maybe but very much conditional on it being an edition that wasn't raced particularly hard.

At a team where sprint wins ARE the prime focus, he may very well prosper and be the significant stage winner some hope he may become. I just don't see that as being ORS; hopefully this will be very clear to both Ewan & his management AND ORS hierarchy in a little over 12 months time
I was mostly joking mate ;)
 
Re: Re:

dirkprovin said:
yaco said:
Would love to see Ewan in this race - Super impressed with Edmondson's ride at RVV - Last minute replacement for Juul-Jensen, slow start to the season because of injury,limited riding in the Classics - Predict he will end up a better classics rider than Durbridge.
Think you may be right re your long term view of Edmondson. Certainly has the standard big track engine but appears to have the enhanced feature of a reasonable sprint finish.

Ewan for what race ? Do hope you weren't referring to either RVV or PR !! Whilst it seems apparent that his endurance has improved significantly; I just don't see him being of any real utility over cobbles and especially the hard raced cobbled hills of the Flandrian season ....... and then there's those cross winds !!

Kuurne-Brussells-Kuurne; where the last hill/sector is something like 50km from the finish & often ends as a bunch sprint is probably about as close as it gets for him. As it is, even with Hayman probably collecting his superannuation come end season, I can't really see an justification for ORS giving him any such prioritisation for these races. Give him a taste like they have this year, certainly, but that's about it.
Referring to Schedelpris which Orica never rides which must frustrate Ewan - My guess is Chaves won't ride the TDF - So do you switch one of the Yates to the TDF which could be tricky or do you pick a team for stage hunting or even switch Ewan and his team to the TDF - Which at the same time could leave a stronger team for the Giro.
 
Think Swuzzle Buzzle is close to the Giro team if everything goes to plan Though my understanding is S.Yates may ride the TDF in place of Chaves - Simon's main target was to be the Vuelta, hence his more relaxed build up, whereas Adam is more advanced in his program.

Power's had a slow build up, and could possibly do the Vuelta, though I agree with Dirk, that he and Edmondson should avoid GT's in 2017.

Think you'll find one of Bewley/Tuft or one of Hepburn/Docker will ride the Giro - The latter can help with Ewan in the sprint finish - Can say that Verona is in good form and he and Plaza are slated to ride the Giro and Vuelta.

My fear is Orica will choose the wrong team for the TDF if Chaves is missing and neither Yates are switched to the race.
 
Re: Re:

yaco said:
dirkprovin said:
yaco said:
Would love to see Ewan in this race - Super impressed with Edmondson's ride at RVV - Last minute replacement for Juul-Jensen, slow start to the season because of injury,limited riding in the Classics - Predict he will end up a better classics rider than Durbridge.
Think you may be right re your long term view of Edmondson. Certainly has the standard big track engine but appears to have the enhanced feature of a reasonable sprint finish.

Ewan for what race ? Do hope you weren't referring to either RVV or PR !! Whilst it seems apparent that his endurance has improved significantly; I just don't see him being of any real utility over cobbles and especially the hard raced cobbled hills of the Flandrian season ....... and then there's those cross winds !!

Kuurne-Brussells-Kuurne; where the last hill/sector is something like 50km from the finish & often ends as a bunch sprint is probably about as close as it gets for him. As it is, even with Hayman probably collecting his superannuation come end season, I can't really see an justification for ORS giving him any such prioritisation for these races. Give him a taste like they have this year, certainly, but that's about it.
Referring to Schedelpris which Orica never rides which must frustrate Ewan - My guess is Chaves won't ride the TDF - So do you switch one of the Yates to the TDF which could be tricky or do you pick a team for stage hunting or even switch Ewan and his team to the TDF - Which at the same time could leave a stronger team for the Giro.
All the more reason for him to start considering a new home ! :twisted:
 
Re:

yaco said:
Think Swuzzle Buzzle is close to the Giro team if everything goes to plan Though my understanding is S.Yates may ride the TDF in place of Chaves - Simon's main target was to be the Vuelta, hence his more relaxed build up, whereas Adam is more advanced in his program.

Power's had a slow build up, and could possibly do the Vuelta, though I agree with Dirk, that he and Edmondson should avoid GT's in 2017.

Think you'll find one of Bewley/Tuft or one of Hepburn/Docker will ride the Giro - The latter can help with Ewan in the sprint finish - Can say that Verona is in good form and he and Plaza are slated to ride the Giro and Vuelta.

My fear is Orica will choose the wrong team for the TDF if Chaves is missing and neither Yates are switched to the race.
Not against your other suggestion of perhaps sending Ewan to Tour esp if its too late to effect a SY for Chavito swap. The issue will be as to whether Ewan can make it to Paris

Docker as an extra grunt/supplementary support for Ewan i/o send both Kluge & Mezgec ..... can go with that one if he's going to Giro.

Bewley is likely to ride whatever GT Chavito rides. Hepburn goes ahead of Tuft; deeply respect and honour Sveino and want to see him retire with honour but last year he was starting to really show the signs of slowing down.
 
Re:

swuzzlebubble said:
So what of KREUZIGER in all this?
He's the marquee super dom signing after all.
Ardennes (for himself) + TdF doesn't seem enough
That seems about right to me, slow build up to the Tour and if they have any doubts about Chaves for the Tour then having a fresh Kreuziger for the race is a good idea. Plenty of races after the Tour to send Kreuziger as leader/co-leader that he would be competitive in.
 
Re:

swuzzlebubble said:
So what of KREUZIGER in all this?
He's the marquee super dom signing after all.
Ardennes (for himself) + TdF doesn't seem enough
That's why he was signed. Those are the races he will be expected to do well in. He might get a chance of being team leader in a race like the Tour of Romandie or one of the other races leading into the Tour. The Yates bros will probably lead the team in the Vuelta.
 
He should be prime support at Giro AND TdF first and foremost and any opportunities for personal ambitions in other races should have to fit around those priorities.
It's not like ORS were lacking options for those other races
 
Re:

swuzzlebubble said:
He should be prime support at Giro AND TdF first and foremost and any opportunities for personal ambitions in other races should have to fit around those priorities.
It's not like ORS were lacking options for those other races
But isn't that exactly what's happening? He's playing the role of Domestique but skipping the Giro which makes sense as the plan so far has him riding for the big GC rider in Chaves. Outside of the Ardennes he hasn't been given leadership at any race.
 
Re: Re:

dirkprovin said:
StryderHells said:
You never miss a chance to have a bash at Ewan do you Dirk ;)
No, I just see his limitations AND I do not think that, going forward, ORS & he are going to be an optimal pairing.

Yes, he IS very quick and is now able to sustain it for longer. MSR evidenced that his endurance has progressed considerably. These I acknowledge readily. As to whether he will ever be a regular front rank contender for that monument; I still remain sceptical as its likely that Cipressa & Poggio will be raced far harder than this year's edition and him not being part of that action.

Last year's Worlds showed very plainly his weakness in cross-winds. If he's ever going to be a major contender on GT flat stages, unless this can be remedied then his win possibilities narrow even further.

Good on him for racking up some early season wins and points haul; we're just going to have to wait and see whether he's going to be able to consistently match it up against the big boys come peak season when THEY're at their best. You can get away with losing your lead-off man at TDU & still win .....in May, Jul, Aug ??

Hey, he might well develop into a front line bunch kick winner. As regards one day races; from what I've noticed I don't think cobbles are his thing and I doubt he'll ever have the uphill versatility to win Amstel, Bretagne or the Laurentian races. Even Cuddles Race may be an "ask". He won Hamburg last year, I don't know enough about the Frankfurt course to say whether that's viable or not. MSR .... as stated above, maybe but very much conditional on it being an edition that wasn't raced particularly hard.

At a team where sprint wins ARE the prime focus, he may very well prosper and be the significant stage winner some hope he may become. I just don't see that as being ORS; hopefully this will be very clear to both Ewan & his management AND ORS hierarchy in a little over 12 months time
I feel like that's unfair, he'd never before rode a race like the tour of Qatar (with crosswinds prevalent on most days). Also what about Greipel, Kittel or Degenkolb as just some of the examples of riders who missed out.

Furthermore, i feel that Australia were behind Matthews, so were never going to chase in earnest for Ewan when he was unproven at that distance and style of racing.
 
Re: Re:

greenedge said:
dirkprovin said:
StryderHells said:
You never miss a chance to have a bash at Ewan do you Dirk ;)
No, I just see his limitations AND I do not think that, going forward, ORS & he are going to be an optimal pairing.

Yes, he IS very quick and is now able to sustain it for longer. MSR evidenced that his endurance has progressed considerably. These I acknowledge readily. As to whether he will ever be a regular front rank contender for that monument; I still remain sceptical as its likely that Cipressa & Poggio will be raced far harder than this year's edition and him not being part of that action.

Last year's Worlds showed very plainly his weakness in cross-winds. If he's ever going to be a major contender on GT flat stages, unless this can be remedied then his win possibilities narrow even further.

Good on him for racking up some early season wins and points haul; we're just going to have to wait and see whether he's going to be able to consistently match it up against the big boys come peak season when THEY're at their best. You can get away with losing your lead-off man at TDU & still win .....in May, Jul, Aug ??

Hey, he might well develop into a front line bunch kick winner. As regards one day races; from what I've noticed I don't think cobbles are his thing and I doubt he'll ever have the uphill versatility to win Amstel, Bretagne or the Laurentian races. Even Cuddles Race may be an "ask". He won Hamburg last year, I don't know enough about the Frankfurt course to say whether that's viable or not. MSR .... as stated above, maybe but very much conditional on it being an edition that wasn't raced particularly hard.

At a team where sprint wins ARE the prime focus, he may very well prosper and be the significant stage winner some hope he may become. I just don't see that as being ORS; hopefully this will be very clear to both Ewan & his management AND ORS hierarchy in a little over 12 months time
I feel like that's unfair, he'd never before rode a race like the tour of Qatar (with crosswinds prevalent on most days). Also what about Greipel, Kittel or Degenkolb as just some of the examples of riders who missed out.

Furthermore, i feel that Australia were behind Matthews, so were never going to chase in earnest for Ewan when he was unproven at that distance and style of racing.
Whilst he may not have raced in the ME previously, you can find cross-winds and echelon tactics in many other races. You will see at least one or two such stages at most GTs; they're prevelant in racing in the Low Countries; what about Cuddles Race last year where he was similarly found out ?

Whilst positioning by your team is vital for when the original split happens; its then up to the individual rider themselves to be able to hold on to whichever group they're in. What happened with Ewan was that he was "popped" out of every successive group.
 
My understanding is Kreuziger is riding the TDF/Vuelta and will be afforded protection in the Ardennes - The Orica team for Amstel Gold is interesting and doesn't have a stand out leader - In saying that the parcours make it a more unpredicable race.
 

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