Jayco al-'Ula and its GreenEdge predecessors

[portugal11]

Re: Re:

Terrible season

It's hardly been a terrible season - Disappointing from a GC perspective no doubt, solid in the classics, very solid in the sprints with Ewan and some young riders are developing well - Overall it's been a solid season but more was expected.

Orica did nothing in giro, tour, vuelta (with a great team). Even in classics they weren't great.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re: Re:

Terrible season

It's hardly been a terrible season - Disappointing from a GC perspective no doubt, solid in the classics, very solid in the sprints with Ewan and some young riders are developing well - Overall it's been a solid season but more was expected.

Orica did nothing in giro, tour, vuelta (with a great team). Even in classics they weren't great.

Granted Chaves' injury caused some re-jigging line-ups but in all 3 GTs; they essentially shot themselves in the foot.

They took Ewan to Giro and he did deliver 1 stage win but the amount of labour expended in the first week left the team largely burned out by wk3.

Tour: Chaves realistically should have been left just to ride Vuelta rather than do through the Tour. They butchered at least 1 stage opportunity.

Vuelta: You say "great team" .... great analysis that !! 3 GC men in a 9 men line-up might look great on paper but is always going to mean an unbalanced line-up. SY was visibly running on empty at end of Tour and this was confirmed at San Sebastian ..... yet they still select him rather than another support option or rouleur.

Classics: backing up from a season with 2 monuments; next to impossible to live up to. Cobbles - actually a better season across all races but no PR win. Ardennes - up to usual standards if no LBL podium.

 

[JRanton]

Re: [Green Edge] Shayne Bannan, Gerry Ryan and an Aussie Pro

Certainly not what they were hoping for after an amazing 2016 (still Lombardia to come). On the plus side, their young Aussies like Ewan, Haig and Durbridge have made a step forward and they've made some great signings for 2018.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re: [Green Edge] Shayne Bannan, Gerry Ryan and an Aussie Pro

Certainly not what they were hoping for after an amazing 2016 (still Lombardia to come). On the plus side, their young Aussies like Ewan, Haig and Durbridge have made a step forward and they've made some great signings for 2018.

Durbridge cas certainly came of age as a rider who can compete at the sharp end of the major cobbles races. Edmondson also showed some very promising early signs of being a major prospect for these races. Haig really took some major steps forward from an excellent neo-pro year both at one day races and the Vuelta. Ewan ..... will realistically need to find a new team that can give him the priority and full support as a bunch sprinter as Orica is evolving into a GC team and a split focus helps neither.

 

[Pricey_sky]

Even worse than their Vuelta being a disappointment is the news that the long running and often epic Backstage Pass is coming to an end. Some incredible work from Dan Jones over the past six seasons that has set the benchmark in social media activity and team insight in the sport. It will be sadly missed but I wish Dan all the best in his future endeavours:

https://www.greenedgecycling.com/news/post-dan-life

 

[movingtarget]

Re: [Green Edge] Shayne Bannan, Gerry Ryan and an Aussie Pro

Certainly not what they were hoping for after an amazing 2016 (still Lombardia to come). On the plus side, their young Aussies like Ewan, Haig and Durbridge have made a step forward and they've made some great signings for 2018.

Durbridge cas certainly came of age as a rider who can compete at the sharp end of the major cobbles races. Edmondson also showed some very promising early signs of being a major prospect for these races. Haig really took some major steps forward from an excellent neo-pro year both at one day races and the Vuelta. Ewan ..... will realistically need to find a new team that can give him the priority and full support as a bunch sprinter as Orica is evolving into a GC team and a split focus helps neither.

Don't think Ewan needs a sprint train and Mezgec is starting to form an understanding with him. The way Greipel has gone this year there could be a position at Lotto.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

No word yet on Lucas Hamilton?

 

[dirkprovin]

Re: [Green Edge] Shayne Bannan, Gerry Ryan and an Aussie Pro

Certainly not what they were hoping for after an amazing 2016 (still Lombardia to come). On the plus side, their young Aussies like Ewan, Haig and Durbridge have made a step forward and they've made some great signings for 2018.

Durbridge cas certainly came of age as a rider who can compete at the sharp end of the major cobbles races. Edmondson also showed some very promising early signs of being a major prospect for these races. Haig really took some major steps forward from an excellent neo-pro year both at one day races and the Vuelta. Ewan ..... will realistically need to find a new team that can give him the priority and full support as a bunch sprinter as Orica is evolving into a GC team and a split focus helps neither.

Don't think Ewan needs a sprint train and Mezgec is starting to form an understanding with him. The way Greipel has gone this year there could be a position at Lotto.

Sorry but I have to dissent from that. Yes, he can get away with losing his man's wheel and still winning at early season races when the rest of his competition is short of race condition .... and whilst he was up against some reasonably quick guys at TOB; it is a 2nd tier race and the depth and strength of the fields in no way comparable to peak season WT races.

Secondly, he DOES need a train if he is to compete at anywhere near "terms" with the really top sprinters. Yes he won a stage at the Giro but all too often he loses his man's wheel and backs off causing him to be washed away. This has happened at Giro as well as a number of other WT races. He hasn't the size, the strength or the daring to be able to "freelance" at bunch kicks. As for the Mezgec partnership; sometimes it clicks, other times Caleb gets second thoughts and backs off. Mezgec is certainly a class rider over a variety of terrain and I hope that they do re-sign him. Less for the sake of Ewan, but potentially with the development of Edmondson and even what Mezgec may be able to produce when given his own opportunities. He also has some reasonable mountain survivability so he can be of further utility to the team at stage races.

Thirdly, with GT teams reducing to 8 next year; the scope for including him plus providing him with specialised support decreases when the team's prime focus will almost certainly be GC; especially as he is otherwise "a passenger/dead weight" as regards any meaningful support and his TT ineptitude counts against him at GTs with TTTs. A classics style fast man who can survive the mountains, has a decent engine and doesnt need major support CAN most likely still co-exist in many GC centred GT line-ups but that isn't Ewan.

I DO, however, fully agree that Lotto Soudal may be a prime opportunity given Greipel's apparent decline. They will be able to give him both the precedence and the full support he will need if he is ever to graduate to a higher level as a sprinter.

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

Must be very disappointed with this Vuelta ....considering that at the onset they were listed as the team to take on SKY

It's been a shocking Vuelta - As DP wrote sending 3 GC riders to a GT is a recipe for disaster - I suppose it's seems a good idea if you are into fantasy cycling - Actually so far the whole GT season has been extremely disappointing - Nowhere near a podium and one stage across the three GT's makes for poor reading.

Whilst I largely agree that this Vuelta has been distinctly sub-standard and the GTs, in general, disappointing; the reality was that it was going to be difficult to match last seasons results let alone improve upon them.

Certainly, cirumstances such as Chaves' early season injury have caused disruption to some plans; I cannot help but think that they have multiplied the problems by overcomplicating things. A simple re-jig of AY to Giro, SY to Tour, Chaves to Vuelta would not only have been easier but allowed far more balanced line-ups at Tour but especially at Vuelta where there would be better support but probably also better stage winning opportunities.

Whilst their form for this year has indicated none of the GC men have been in podium shape; their team hierarchy have also done them a significant disservice and they have the right to make it clear "this must not happen again !"

I have to agree there re: team selections. I suspect that White may have had a greater say than Stephens in the Vuelta lineup. Simon Yates did well overall but was running on fumes - Plaza, Howson, Durbridge or possibly even Power (he has to ride a GT sometime) would have been a better selection.

Also, they seemed to go a little too deep trying to protect both Chaves and Adam Yates' GC places. Ambushing selected mountain stages would have served far better.

 

[yaco]

Orica have good additions to the squad in Nieve,Trentin,Bauer and Meyer - They hit form, gel with the team and results will follow - I'd expect Haig to ride a shadow GC in 2018, while Orica need to set clear goals for their 3 GC guys - I suspect one of the Yates will be at another team in 2019, to allow for the development of Haig - Ewan is not as happy as he could be, and is unlikely to be at Orica in 2019 - In saying that, Ewan needs Mezgec to recommit at Orica - Trentin will be a key part of the classic squad along with Durbridge and the developing Edmondson - Reckon there are gaps in the Ardennes squad, though expect one of the Yates to focus in this area - Hamilton's signing may be not be a certainty as there is some issue !

I will add team tactics in recent races have been lacking - Orica seemed to nearly always get the wrong riders in the break during the Vuelta - Even the Montreal race was a disaster - Kreuziger was very strong and should have forged clear from the second group when the race broke down in the last 10kms - It's a bit late sitting up in the second group waiting for Impey to get back to the group who couldn't win in a sprint finish in that company.

 

[jarvo]

I do not see how Orica win a GT with the 3 they have? None of them can TT well enough to compete, so unless one of the GT routes has no TT km's other than a prologue, I think they will be lacking for GT success

 

[yaco]

Re:

I do not see how Orica win a GT with the 3 they have? None of them can TT well enough to compete, so unless one of the GT routes has no TT km's other than a prologue, I think they will be lacking for GT success

Chaves is still a chance to win a GT, but not Yates x 2.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

Re: Re:

I do not see how Orica win a GT with the 3 they have? None of them can TT well enough to compete, so unless one of the GT routes has no TT km's other than a prologue, I think they will be lacking for GT success

Chaves is still a chance to win a GT, but not Yates x 2.

Nieve perhaps better than all of them?

 

[yaco]

Do you think the UCI should give Orica Scott some kind of award or recognition for Backstage Pass ? The whole concept did a brilliant job of bringing the team closer to the fans and of course inspired other teams to do likewise.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re:

Orica have good additions to the squad in Nieve,Trentin,Bauer and Meyer - They hit form, gel with the team and results will follow - I'd expect Haig to ride a shadow GC in 2018, while Orica need to set clear goals for their 3 GC guys - I suspect one of the Yates will be at another team in 2019, to allow for the development of Haig - Ewan is not as happy as he could be, and is unlikely to be at Orica in 2019 - In saying that, Ewan needs Mezgec to recommit at Orica - Trentin will be a key part of the classic squad along with Durbridge and the developing Edmondson - Reckon there are gaps in the Ardennes squad, though expect one of the Yates to focus in this area - Hamilton's signing may be not be a certainty as there is some issue !

I will add team tactics in recent races have been lacking - Orica seemed to nearly always get the wrong riders in the break during the Vuelta - Even the Montreal race was a disaster - Kreuziger was very strong and should have forged clear from the second group when the race broke down in the last 10kms - It's a bit late sitting up in the second group waiting for Impey to get back to the group who couldn't win in a sprint finish in that company.

Yes, Montreal was a comedy of errors tactically just like Quebec. I fully agree with 42x16ss that White has some significant questions to answer re both tactical & selection issues; I would also have Lapage subjected to the "blowtorch"; too many races where he has been race DS have been marked by tactical inflexibility & conservatism.

One wonders if the Hamilton "isuue" revolves around one Jason Bakker Esq trying a little "hard-ball" linking little Caleb to Hamilton ? Would not surprise; both Hamilton & Ewan are frankly done a disservice by their choice of manager but not should Orica acquiesce to any "squeeze play".

Do you think the UCI should give Orica Scott some kind of award or recognition for Backstage Pass ? The whole concept did a brilliant job of bringing the team closer to the fans and of course inspired other teams to do likewise.

They won't although they should. They have most certainly shown the way for the sport as regards fan/public relations and it will be sorely missed. Will be interesting to see how they manage to fill this void

I do not see how Orica win a GT with the 3 they have? None of them can TT well enough to compete, so unless one of the GT routes has no TT km's other than a prologue, I think they will be lacking for GT success

Chaves is still a chance to win a GT, but not Yates x 2.

Tend to agree with Yaco. Neither Yates have the capacity to "make things happen" in the mountains whereas Chaves at his best can. In a GT with (A) only short prologue or TTT to start plus either mountain TT/shorter TT with significant uphill quotient; a Chaves of 2016 vintage can still be very much a factor. GTs of that type will not come around every year but but Chaves has shown the capacity to do well in mountain TTs (2016 Giro) & on form, limit reasonably well on TTs with some decent climbing involved. Haig is the real X factor at this point; the next 2 years should tell us a lot more re his capabilities/limitations.

 

[yaco]

Anyway Gerry Ryan is again putting his hand in his pocket or that should be his companies - So he will effectively be bankrolling the team in 2018, unless they find a new major sponsor before the start of the season - Gerry fairly much bankrolled Green Edge Cycling in 2012, before Orica come on board - Its tough work finding Australian companies to sponsor the team as they are very inward looking when it comes to sponsorship - I'd be surprised if Gerry will bankroll the team in 2019 - Add Gerry having to put his hand into his pocket to help the women's team and the Continental team because the Performance Director of Australian Cycling Simon Jones has cut funding to both these teams - Jones will be under significant pressure to produce track medals as he has no interest in road cycling - I wonder how long Jones will last ?

 

[dirkprovin]

Re:

Anyway Gerry Ryan is again putting his hand in his pocket or that should be his companies - So he will effectively be bankrolling the team in 2018, unless they find a new major sponsor before the start of the season - Gerry fairly much bankrolled Green Edge Cycling in 2012, before Orica come on board - Its tough work finding Australian companies to sponsor the team as they are very inward looking when it comes to sponsorship - I'd be surprised if Gerry will bankroll the team in 2019 - Add Gerry having to put his hand into his pocket to help the women's team and the Continental team because the Performance Director of Australian Cycling Simon Jones has cut funding to both these teams - Jones will be under significant pressure to produce track medals as he has no interest in road cycling - I wonder how long Jones will last ?

I think Jones will be turfed out on his rear within 18 months, regrettably his legacy may take much longer to repair ... some of it may be irreparable.

There are very few AUS corporates that are legitimately "international brands" or that have any significant international footprint ... or that are not just branch offices of larger international entities. This explains why most AUS corporates are primarily "domestically focused" as regards advertising and any sponsorship $$$ .... and why the pool of potential sponsors from this source is particularly small. The liklihood of another AUS corporate coming in as new naming rights sponsor ..... really not great. It will almost certainly have to be some Asian money.

Ryan will stump up for 2018 but methinks results next year will play a significant role with regards to (1) the extent of further "bankrolling"; (2) which/if any operations may be closed down. They do have riders with 2019 contracts so one has to think that the WT team, at min, should at least last through that season, Realistically, I don't think Ryan will want to shut down ANY of them but Cycling AUS aren't making life easy for him and there are limits to how long he can/should pump $$$$ in.

 

[TMP402]

Here's a question: why did Ryan wait four years before putting one of his companies (Bike Exchange) in the name of the team?

 

[dirkprovin]

Re:

Here's a question: why did Ryan wait four years before putting one of his companies (Bike Exchange) in the name of the team?

\

Maybe Orica advised that they would be scaling down their $$$ for the final year, and at that stage the Scott arrangement may not have been finalised so the Bike Exchange labelling may well have been a "bridging" arrangement.

As it is, at least two of Ryan's companies (Jayco & Mitchelton) have had logo space on GE kits at various times of the team's history.

 

[yaco]

Re:

Here's a question: why did Ryan wait four years before putting one of his companies (Bike Exchange) in the name of the team?

My understanding is Orica were to finish sponsorship in 2016, and hence the adding of bike exchange - Orica after the 2016 TDF agreed to add one extra year to their sponsorship.

 

[yaco]

Just listened to the latest episode of Life in the Peloton - Kirk Docker interviewed Mitch and Heppy - Very much a lay-person's interview.

 

[TMP402]

So if Ryan is left as the only sponsor apart from Scott, we could be looking at BikeExchange-Scott/Jayco-Scott/etc, I suppose?

 

[yaco]

Re:

So if Ryan is left as the only sponsor apart from Scott, we could be looking at BikeExchange-Scott/Jayco-Scott/etc, I suppose?

Don't forget Mitchelton - Think any future big sponsorship will come from Asia.

 

[The Hegelian]

Who selected the men's worlds RR team? And what psychedelics were they on when made the selections?

 

[yaco]

Re:

Who selected the men's worlds RR team? And what psychedelics were they on when made the selections?

selection

Brad McGee - The actual selection is fine, except for Haussler - Its good they have one team leader in Matthews, unlike the last two years - Main thing is they have plan B in case something goes wrong with Matthews.