has a GT ever been won because of time bonuses before this vuelta?

[Carlo Algatrensig]

I'm asking this question because if it weren't for time bonuses the Vuelta GC would have Froome in the lead by 19 seconds by my calculations.

The only other occasion that i think it would have been close was the 2007 tour where Contadors winning margin would have been reduced to 3 seconds rather than the 23 he won by if there hadn't been time bonuses.

So has anyone ever actually ridden the course in a slower time than someone yet still beaten them for the overall win?

 

[palmerq]

I think contador would not have been ahead if it wasnt for time bonuses, but then if there was no time bonuses the riders tactics would be different so it isnt really a fair question

 

[El Pistolero]

I think contador would not have been ahead if it wasnt for time bonuses, but then if there was no time bonuses the riders tactics would be different so it isnt really a fair question

I think he would have won with one second as he only lost time to Leipheimer in the time trials(and made exactly one second more up in the mountains and hills than what he lost in the time trials). But he also crashed somewhere in that Vuelta and lost some time on a normal stage, don't remember too well anymore. But that Vuelta had way too many flat stages though.

 

[Carlo Algatrensig]

I think contador would not have been ahead if it wasnt for time bonuses, but then if there was no time bonuses the riders tactics would be different so it isnt really a fair question

I went back and did the sums and contador would still have won by 3 seconds which is why I think that is the nearest example previous to this vuelta which is where it looks likely to happen. So i was wondering if there was an example where it had happened before this vuelta.

 

[Arnout]

Leipheimer and Contador were exactly in the same time in the end.

Also in the 2007 Tour Contador was in real time only a few seconds quicker than Evans IIRC.

 

[palmerq]

I think he would have won with one second as he only lost time to Leipheimer in the time trials(and made exactly one second more up in the mountains and hills than what he lost in the time trials). But he also crashed somewhere in that Vuelta and lost some time on a normal stage, don't remember too well anymore. But that Vuelta had way too many flat stages though.

You are probably right, I cant really remember, but I know the time bonuses made a big difference in that vuelta. Obviously riders ride differently if there are time bonuses or not, so cobo might only win due to the time bonuses but I think if it was not for the time bonuses he would have been far more aggressive in the last few stages... so who knows what will happen, it is not a fair question in the end.

I think contin would have own that vuelta whatever the rules where, but obviously he rode with the time bonus rules in his mind..

 

[Carlo Algatrensig]

Leipheimer and Contador were exactly in the same time in the end.

Also in the 2007 Tour Contador was in real time only a few seconds quicker than Evans IIRC.

That's interesting when I went back to look at that tour I only compared Contador to Evans. I didn't realise that Leipheimer would have actually got the same time as AC without time bonuses

 

[Lupetto]

In the Tour of 1933 Georges Speicher got six minutes due to time bonuses.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1933_Tour_de_France

 

[El Pistolero]

In the Tour of 1933 Georges Speicher got six minutes due to time bonuses.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1933_Tour_de_France

Lol, that's crazy, especially the year before where it was 24 minutes of bonus seconds.

 

[roundabout]

That's interesting when I went back to look at that tour I only compared Contador to Evans. I didn't realise that Leipheimer would have actually got the same time as AC without time bonuses

He means the 2008 Vuelta.

 

[ingsve]

Tommy Prim finished the 1981 Giro 38 seconds behind Giovanni Battaglin but would have won if you didn't count the bonus seconds.

 

[icefire]

Saronni also won the 1983 Giro to Visentini thanks to bonus seconds

 

[auscyclefan94]

Also in the 2007 Tour Contador was in real time only a few seconds quicker than Evans IIRC.

I think it was 2 seconds between Contador and Cadel after 2007 without time bonuses.

 

[spanky wanderlust]

how exactly was this vuelta "won on time bonuses"?

 

[auscyclefan94]

Cobo wouldn't be leading right now with the time bonuses. Should never be in a GT.

 

[Lupetto]

I prefer bonus seconds or someone winning by them, to something like Tourmalet '10 with Schleck and Contador.

 

[LukeSchmid]

Different rules, different racing, different results. You can not just take the time bonus away and claim someone else would have won.

 

[LaFlorecita]

I think it was 2 seconds between Contador and Cadel after 2007 without time bonuses.

3 seconds would be more logical, as Contador won one stage(= 20s) and the difference between them was 23s. I don't know if there are odd number bonusses.

 

[cineteq]

Cobo wouldn't be leading right now with the time bonuses. Should never be in a GT.

I don't buy that at all. You don't know that. Things play different with different rules. Bring on the time bonuses to TdF!
PS: Life is not black and white

 

[cineteq]

Different rules, different racing, different results. You can not just take the time bonus away and claim someone else would have won.

I guess you said it first. +1000
Now try to make people understand that.

 

[The Hitch]

The nightmare for time bonuses would be if the top 2 came 2nd and 3rd and the overall winner won by say 3 seconds.

Then the winner of the stage gets disqualified after the race.

So on that stage they get moved up to 1st and 2nd.

So now theres a 8 second gap between time bonuses and rider B moves above rider A.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

Pro time bonuses here.

IMO a stage victory should be rewarded with some advantage in terms of GC.

 

[spanky wanderlust]

Different rules, different racing, different results. You can not just take the time bonus away and claim someone else would have won.

of course you can! then you would have a thread like this one. we could then ignore 3 whole weeks of racing where consequential time gaps are made out on the road. the race was not won or lost on angliru, the long itt, the ttt or whatever.

it was the time bonuses man!

this is pretty standard. folks like to write different rules for the race and declare the 'real' winner.

my other favorite is the "if there were no team time trial my favorite rider would be on the podium" thread.

 

[LukeSchmid]

of course you can! then you would have a thread like this one. we could then ignore 3 whole weeks of racing where consequential time gaps are made out on the road. the race was not won or lost on angliru, the long itt, the ttt or whatever.

it was the time bonuses man!

this is pretty standard. folks like to write different rules for the race and declare the 'real' winner.

my other favorite is the "if there were no team time trial my favorite rider would be on the podium" thread.

Okay, strictly speaking you can claim anything you like but in reality it means absolutely nothing.
Nothing!!!!!!!

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

I guess you said it first. +1000
Now try to make people understand that.

The point is rather obvious and easy to understand.

I would have hoped you had learnt your lesson vis a vis suggesting everyone else is stupid, after you made such a tit of yourself in this Vuelta.