Has anyone changed their mind about doping?

[yespatterns]

Just curious. I've become more sympathetic to the pressure since having a family and making moral decisions based more on livelihood than idealism. I can't help but feel bad for riders in the same --basic-- spot. Anyone else feel the same?

 

[ralphbert]

Don't mind dopers, can't stand gratuitous lairs or bullies.

 

[rhubroma]

When you're clean riding against dopers, you mind doping.

 

[blackcat]

Don't mind dopers, can't stand gratuitous lairs or bullies.

i m with ralph

 

[Walkman]

Just curious. I've become more sympathetic to the pressure since having a family and making moral decisions based more on livelihood than idealism. I can't help but feel bad for riders in the same --basic-- spot. Anyone else feel the same?

You don't think clean riders have a family?

Löfkvist did almost overtrain his entire Career to try and keep up with doped riders and now he can't compete in the sport he grew up loving because of chronic fatigue. So, no I have no sympathy for dopers.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lofkvist-announces-retirement-from-professional-cycling

 

[Walkman]

When you're clean riding against dopers, you mind doping.

I second this.

I think most people who are fans of doped riders have never competed themselves. They have no idea of how it feels to compete against people who are cheating. To see them succeed and get praised is really painful.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Just curious. I've become more sympathetic to the pressure since having a family and making moral decisions based more on livelihood than idealism. I can't help but feel bad for riders in the same --basic-- spot. Anyone else feel the same?

When I try to get fit again, yes.

But in reality, I am with the "what about the people who want to race clean" crowd - and think clean riders should be allowed to have their moment in the sun.

It's about taking responsibility for your actions.

 

[Walkman]

When I try to get fit again, yes.

But in reality, I am with the "what about the people who want to race clean" crown - and think clean riders should be allowed to have their moment in the sun.

It's about taking responsibility for your actions.

So what are you saying?

That you are doping to get fit, in order to do what, compete or just get into shape? Because that makes all the difference, either you are a hypocrite or you are just a guy (presumably) who wants to get fit and is a too lazy to do it natural.

 

[Bexon30]

I second this.

I think most people who are fans of doped riders have never competed themselves. They have no idea of how it feels to compete against people who are cheating. To see them succeed and get praised is really painful.

It's tough because even being a fan of a non doped rider is not straight forward. So many called clean guys are not clean, and how can you tell if a Sagan, Evans or Froome is doped. There's guys like Pinot whom I've enjoyed watching for the last 3 seasons but I'm not a 100% sure he is clean. Being a fan of a doped rider is probably easier to do if you've never competed though. Personally I enjoy getting fit naturally, having good days, terrible days where nothing seems right and other days where I feel strong. Doing this by cheating seems weird to me. I just love riding for the way each ride differs.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

So what are you saying?

That you are doping to get fit, in order to do what, compete or just get into shape? Because that makes all the difference, either you are a hypocrite or you are just a guy (presumably) who wants to get fit and is a too lazy to do it natural.

Did you read the first post in this thread? Let me help you, because forums and threads and stuff can be hard sometimes.

Here's what OP wrote:

<snip> I've become more sympathetic to the pressure <snip> Anyone else feel the same?

Here's what I wrote:

When I try to get fit again, yes.

In other words, when I am trying to get fit, yes, the difficulty to do so, particularly as I get older, lends me a sense of empathy for the riders coming back from injury, or the riders who are getting older, who do not recover as well as they used to, or struggle to get fit again (Jan Ulrich, every January after Christmas).

That is what I am saying.

If you seriously read my post as me admitting to doping to get fit again, I think you have an anti-me agenda you should check at the door.

 

[Walkman]

Did you read the first post in this thread? Let me help you, because forums and threads and stuff can be hard sometimes.

Here's what OP wrote:


Here's what I wrote:



In other words, when I am trying to get fit, yes, the difficulty to do so, particularly as I get older lends me a sense of empathy for the riders coming back from injury, or the riders who are getting older, who do not recover as well as they used to, or struggle to get fit again (Jan Ulrich, every January after Christmas).

That is what I am saying.

If you seriously read my post as me admitting to doping to get fit again, I think you have an anti-me agenda you should check at the door.

My bad, I apologize. It was not my intent to provoke or anything, just misinterpreted your post, probably because I don't feel the same.

I have done interval training until I threw up but it's not like that makes me more sympathetic towards dopers. Although I can to some extend buy your augment about injuries, seeing I myself know how hard it can be to be injured, but I still maintain my opinion that doping and professional sports does not go together.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

My bad, I apologize. It was not my intent to provoke or anything, just misinterpreted your post, probably because I don't feel the same.

I think the lack of understanding is understandable.

I have done interval training until I threw up but it's not like that makes me more sympathetic towards dopers. Although I can to some extend buy your augment about injuries, seeing I myself know how hard it can be to be injured, but I still maintain my opinion that doping and professional sports does not go together.

Empathy is not the same as condoning, agreeing with or supporting behaviour. It is purely understanding.

I have an understanding of why they do it.

I don't agree with it.

And that understanding has increased as I go through different experiences myself - getting older, getting unfit, getting injured, etc.

But I take responsibility for my actions, and get back into shape naturally, clean.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

No not changed my mind on doping. Its a big problem.
The donkey to racehorse "injustice" is clearer than ever.

 

[LittleJo]

Just curious. I've become more sympathetic to the pressure since having a family and making moral decisions based more on livelihood than idealism. I can't help but feel bad for riders in the same --basic-- spot. Anyone else feel the same?

I'm not sure I've become more sympathetic, but I guess I understand a lot more how they come to be in the position of doping. A lot of these guys forego higher education, have no idea what they'd do if they weren't cycling, and get told when they become a pro that if they want to keep their jobs (not just win races, but even have a contract), they have to dope. Don't get me wrong, I still think they have a choice - and some will choose to dope, and others will choose to get out of the sport - but I guess I do sort of understand how this is a slightly more complex decision than it might seem.

Edit: But I do have a lot of sympathy for those guys that make the choice not to dope, but remain in the sport.

 

[Archibald]

If you seriously read my post as me admitting to doping to get fit again, I think you have an anti-me agenda you should check at the door.

is english his/her first language?

When you're clean riding against dopers, you mind doping.

and this begs the question - why are the clean riders not speaking out or ratting the dopers out?

Personally, I've done some races where I've been in the mix, and then there are others where a few individuals have suddenly blown the rest of us away... Those are hard to take, so I can only imagine what it must be like if it's your livelyhood that's being destroyed in such a way.

No not changed my mind on doping. Its a big problem.
The donkey to racehorse "injustice" is clearer than ever.

True this.

However, after reading The Secret Race, I did feel for Tyler towards the end, and rarely wear my Dopers Suck t-shirt now...

 

[pastronef]

The donkey to racehorse "injustice" is clearer than ever.

are guys like Contador who showed talent and rode well from young age (and doped) more justified than a Froome who is labelled as a donkey?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

The donkey to racehorse "injustice" is clearer than ever.

are guys like Contador who showed talent and rode well from young age (and doped) more justified than a Froome who is labelled as a donkey?

Everyone's justified but some are more justified than others?

Certainly the model the UCI follow by all appearances.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

The donkey to racehorse "injustice" is clearer than ever.

are guys like Contador who showed talent and rode well from young age (and doped) more justified than a Froome who is labelled as a donkey?

Let me clarify.

The donkey to racehorse element is making it abundantly clear how effective drugs are.

Start doping early or late, makes no difference to me.

 

[Benotti69]

The donkey to racehorse "injustice" is clearer than ever.

are guys like Contador who showed talent and rode well from young age (and doped) more justified than a Froome who is labelled as a donkey?

How do we know Contador showed enough natural talent that he could win GTs?

He has worked with dodgy people in the sport since an early age!

Better to call for a fully funded, independent, committed anti doping body and more testing.

I would also add riders who are not tested a certain amount of times cannot qualify for monuments or GTs.

 

[LaFlorecita]

i m with ralph

same for me

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

They do what they have to do to become the best. If they are stupid enough to get caught, so be it, I don't symphatize with anyone, cheating doper, or stupid clean makes no difference to me. Survival of the fittest and so on. If Lovkvist didn't want to play by the rules he should have gotten a proper job and started riding his bike as a hobby on the weekends way earlier.
An accountant might be good at doing maths solely by calculating in his head, but when the big boys with their calculators shows up, and he doesn't want to up his game, it is his loss

 

[Walkman]

They do what they have to do to become the best. If they are stupid enough to get caught, so be it, I don't symphatize with anyone, cheating doper, or stupid clean makes no difference to me. Survival of the fittest and so on. If Lovkvist didn't want to play by the rules he should have gotten a proper job and started riding his bike as a hobby on the weekends way earlier.
An accountant might be good at doing maths solely by calculating in his head, but when the big boys with their calculators shows up, and he doesn't want to up his game, it is his loss

I take it you never competed in anything, ever?

If Lovkvist didn't want to play by the rules he should have gotten a proper job and started riding his bike as a hobby on the weekends way earlier.

Also, this statement shows that you are exactly what's wrong with cycling and sports in general.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Just curious. I've become more sympathetic to the pressure since having a family and making moral decisions based more on livelihood than idealism. I can't help but feel bad for riders in the same --basic-- spot. Anyone else feel the same?

Absolutely my position has chnaged.

I sued to be 100% totally in favour of life bans for a first offense.
Then I mellowed and understand the issues better with that stance, which makes it untenable.

Then as more and more dopers rub our noses into it, I am coming back towards life bans being an option for a first offense for certain substances.

 

[The Hitch]

I second this.

I think most people who are fans of doped riders have never competed themselves. They have no idea of how it feels to compete against people who are cheating. To see them succeed and get praised is really painful.

Your boy Evans doesn't mind. He praises and defends the dopers all the time

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

I take it you never competed in anything, ever?



Also, this statement shows that you are exactly what's wrong with cycling and sports in general.

If compete you mean riding against international teams? no. national/local circuits I've competed in a few times though. Personally never dope, cause I've got no intetion of becoming "good".

"fair play" doesn't exist in any venue in our lives. Athletes tests the limits of what is physically possible to do with our bodies. That is why we find them entertaining. Lately though I've changed my view on drug tests, and think that they should exist. you know, so the excitement for how the final gc in a gt ends up lasts for a while longer...