Has the green jersey lost its prestige?

[sponsor]

One of the problems is that you only get 25,000 euros for winning the green jersey. Even coming 5th place overall allows you to get double that.

You think 5th place salary and endorsements are as good as Peters?

I think he sees a bigger picture.


As far as not winning stages in the race, well it is a stage race.
I believe he has won more races this year than anyone (still) in the tour (but I didn't look it up).

 

[SKSemtex]

I do think the green has its prestige and I do think that every sponsor of WT team would like to have his rider every day on podium as Cannondale has.

A lot of times, a lot of people claim here that only first place should be interesting for riders, that first place should be rewarded with double points, double money, that podium should be only for winner.
In the same time the same people complain that riders do not care about the race once the first place is decided.

The problem is when the race is decided in first week. This is the reason why there always been the real mountain stages or GC stages only last week. ( 2014 will be bright exception)

The green jersey was decided the moment when all sprinters found out that Sagan is still fast or smart enough to get podium or TOP 5 in bunch sprints. A lot of people thought here (and I was one of them) that there are enough faster sprinters to put him in 6-10th place.

I am fan of Sagan but believe me I would prefer seeing him to fight with somebody every single stage for each point for each placement, to see him happy each time when they put the green on him on podium. I would not mind if he loses it for few stages.

Going for green jersey takes it tax. For Sagan this year tax is probably too high. This Tour could be his greatest. He will hardly find the stage design that favour him so much in the future. Who knows what could happen if he hads that extra energy not going for intermediate sprints and sprints for second place behind Kittel. And yet lot of people taking the green jersey down as prestigeless.

There are people who think that green jersey and intermediate sprints are stupid and should be cancelled but the same people complain we do not have the action during the race only last few km.
(btw I also prefer 2 even 3 intermediate sprints for much less points)

 

[Dazed and Confused]

snipped..

There are people who think that green jersey and intermediate sprints are stupid and should be cancelled but the same people complain we do not have the action during the race only last few km.
(btw I also prefer 2 even 3 intermediate sprints for much less points)

I prefer the action the current points scheme generates during the stage.
Reducing the int. sprint points distribution to only 4 guys simply means the break will eat the points in 95% of cases and everybody else in the peloton will lose interest.

Anyway dominance simply kills the competition. But its not the competition's fault Sagan is in a class of his own at this time.

If the competition is tweaked, Kittel might win the Jersey in dominant fashion every year moving forward, just by doing what he likes best: winning bunch sprints. The jersey competition will be dull as a result as well.

 

[SKSemtex]

I prefer the action the current points scheme generates during the stage.
Reducing the int. sprint points distribution to only 4 guys simply means the break will eat the points in 95% of cases and everybody else in the peloton will lose interest.

Anyway dominance simply kills the competition. But its not the competition's fault Sagan is in a class of his own at this time.

If the competition is tweaked, Kittel might win the Jersey in dominant fashion every year moving forward, just by doing what he likes best: winning bunch sprints. The jersey competition will be dull as a result as well.

Yes. You are probably right. l

 

[karlboss]

I think both Degenkolb and Kristoff could challenge if they went for it. However for Giant stage wins are more important, and for Kristoff his positioning was horrible early, and now he only thinks of stages. Maybe next year.
I don't think the points in the middle add anything to the race apart from 30 seconds here and there. To liven the race up I'd prefer to see a team competition where the time is taken from the first rider of your team across the line. Would give everybody something to gamble with everyday of the tour, so maybe on sprint days instead of breaks of 2 and 3 they would be 10 and 20.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

I think both Degenkolb and Kristoff could challenge if they went for it. However for Giant stage wins are more important, and for Kristoff his positioning was horrible early, and now he only thinks of stages. Maybe next year.
I don't think the points in the middle add anything to the race apart from 30 seconds here and there. To liven the race up I'd prefer to see a team competition where the time is taken from the first rider of your team across the line. Would give everybody something to gamble with everyday of the tour, so maybe on sprint days instead of breaks of 2 and 3 they would be 10 and 20.

Well, the current team classification is a whole different matter. Rather than adding to the race it simply subtracts. Tinkoff last year and I bet ag2r this year will likely ride defensively. Should be banned or redefined at you suggest.

I agree, the int sprints are not earth shattering stuff particular compared to when we pass great landscapes and scenery. But there might be fans who follow particular sprinters and are compelled to stay in the couch during the stage rather than just tune in for the last 10 minutes. Dunno.

 

[Lupi33]

Green jersey should be the reward for the most consistently highly-placed rider. not the best sprinter. the reward for the best sprinter is to win stages, that is enough. Sagan is by far the best as getting good placing on different types of stage so he deserves to win green

like the red jersey at the Giro?

not sure that is so prestigious anyway

polkadot seems to have eclipsed it lately. plus its a cooler looking and iconic jersey

 

[SKSemtex]

I think both Degenkolb and Kristoff could challenge if they went for it. However for Giant stage wins are more important, and for Kristoff his positioning was horrible early, and now he only thinks of stages. Maybe next year.
I don't think the points in the middle add anything to the race apart from 30 seconds here and there. To liven the race up I'd prefer to see a team competition where the time is taken from the first rider of your team across the line. Would give everybody something to gamble with everyday of the tour, so maybe on sprint days instead of breaks of 2 and 3 they would be 10 and 20.

Somehow I like the idea that points will be given to a team instead of individual and green jersey will be awarded to any rider of the team after each stage. It must be a wonderfull feeling and lot of guys that will never have this chance to stand on podium will get the reward for they hard work.
For history record on the end the individual green jersey will be given to guy from winning team who scorred maximum points.

 

[xanadu]

The problem seems to be that a great many sprinters do not want to come out and play. Sure enough there is a massive charge for the line at the end of the stage, but only limited interest in the intermediate sprints.
There does indeed appear to be a Sagan factor, he is the sprinter most likely to haul himself over the climbs to collect the points on 'difficult stages' and therin lies the problem, the green jersey competition is tailor made for Sagan who can negotiate the climbs whilst others of his ilk fall by the wayside. The non climbing sprinters are aware that their inability to climb relegates them to bit players in Sagan's quest for green.
Is it now time to move the goal posts, by which i mean position the intermediate sprint location nearer the start of each stage fostering a belief in the non climbers that they can score points everyday, and that they can be serious contenders for the 'green'.

 

[coimbrawu]

Not becasue green jersey lost its prestige, just because Sagan it's too good.

Record for stages in the lead of points competition:

Zabel: 88
Kelly: 67
Abdoujaparov: 54
Darrigade: 51
McEwen: 51
Maertens: 49
Sagan: 49

stats from @irishpeloton

So he will end in 3rd of this ranking if he keep healthy to Paris...and he is only 24 years old...

Sagan is writing his history and he makes the competition looks weird

 

[veji11]

With the current table points, the green jersey was decided when 2 things became apparent, as others have said :
-Sagan wants it and will score top5 finishes in many different type of stages.
-Giant hasn't decided to bet on Degenkolb, the only sprinter who could follow Sagan on many hilly stages for the green jersey but to focus on stages (therefore Kittel when it's flat).


To me the main problem is that the point table is similar to a formula one table : to prevent a dominating rider (in terms of wins) from wrapping it up quickly they put a very slowly decreasing point count. But the unwanted effect is that an uberconsistent rider like Sagan scores every single time and wraps it up;

I think there should be a bigger premium for first places. Say :
- end of a flat stage : 50-30-20-15-12-10-8-6-4-2
- intermediate sprint on a flat stage : 20-12-8-5-3-1
- end of a non flat stage (make hilly and moutain stages worth the same; ITT excluded) : 30-20-15-12-10-8-6-4-2-1
- intermediate sprint on a non flat stage : 15-9-6-4-2-1

With something like this a rider who wins 3 or 4 stages gets a massive head up on a rider who does many podium places. Kittel with 3 wins and that's it would have 150 points. Sagan have : 30+12+30+15+12+15+30+2+20 : 166. And this is with a Sagan being uber consistent. His lead would be a lot smaller based on finish line position and that could really motivate Kittel to try and get intermediate sprints.

 

[MBotero]

I don't know if green jersey has lost its prestige,but the last time i was really interested about the jersey owner was when Thor was wearing it.That guy was really impressive,can't forget him being up on the road on some heavy mountains stages with his green jersey and the commentators laughing about.

 

[simoni]

I don't think it has lost prestige so much as lacks a clear distinct identity and seems to vary year on year. This could be a good or bad thing, depending on your point of view.

Sagan could easily have won a couple of stages by now though in which case we'd be giving him more credit I think.

 

[Netserk]

But who has, since the start of the Tour, made the green jersey a priority and has been seriously trying to compete with Sagan for it? There was Coquard early, and...that's it really. Plenty are challenging Sagan for stage wins. Barely any for Green.

Just look at the current standings. TBH reads like one guy going for it, and a bunch of others for which green is a afterthought.
1 Peter Sagan (Svk) Cannondale 341 pts
2 Bryan Coquard (Fra) Team Europcar 191
3 Alexander Kristoff (Nor) Team Katusha 172
4 Marcel Kittel (Ger) Team Giant-Shimano 167
5 Mark Renshaw (Aus) Omega Pharma-Quick Step 118

Last time I checked all of Coquard, Kittel, Renshaw, Greipel, Sagan and Feillu sprinted for the intermediate yesterday, but I'm sure you'll tell me that they were trying to win the stage....

KOM on the other hand has one truly dedicated rider, Purito (and partly Voeckler), and then Nibali who by default will be his biggest opponent without riding for it...

My point is that just because Sagan is so good and leads the classification with a huge margin (150 points) and therefore pretty much certain to win it, that doesn't mean that other aren't trying, they just aren't nowhere as good as Sagan.

 

[doperhopper]

Ladies and gentlemen, as we all know this has nothing to do with sport, we're in showbiz here at the Tour. So lets make green many 10x more, also UCI points, prestige, let's downgrade flat stage sprint win in terms of media coverage, money, etc, and I can imagine Degenkolb would be the team leader with Kittel helping him to get The Precious Points (and we'll red: btw MK won few bunch sprints but who cares). It's all just a matter of perception.

 

[SKSemtex]

probably this does not belong to this thread but anyway:

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2014/07/sean-kelly-tour-de-france-blog-i-know-exactly-how-sagan-feels/

 

[PeterB]

I do not quite understand how can someone say that no other team bothered about the green jersey. Just have a look at intermediate sprints in first two stages (behind breakaway):

Stage 1:
4 Bryan Coquard
5 André Greipel
6 Peter Sagan
7 Mark Cavendish

Stage 2:
8 Bryan Coquard
9 Alexander Kristoff
10 André Greipel
11 Peter Sagan

Clearly several other teams with their best riders went for it. Absence of Kittel is notable, but in my opinion easily explained by the fact that Kittel is not a type of rider you can always rely on getting to finish with the bunch, so I think it was merely energy management by him - not spending power on intermediates to have better chance of getting to finish.

Unfortunately for fans, the competition lost its excitement too early, but that is another matter unrelated with prestige. Without doubt it is still prestigious to win the jersey, for both the rider and the team/sponsors.

There's also interesting point that Kittel actually started sprinting for intermediate points in later stages. In my opinion his aim is to get second in the competition, just to be there in case something happens to Sagan on the way to Paris...

 

[kingjr]

What does that mean anyway, nobody tries to challenge him, Coquard has tried from the start, and Kittel has taken part in the intermediate sprints too in the last couple of stages, so did Greipel although his chances were pretty much gone after he screwed up the early bunch sprints.

 

[GThere2]

The green jersey may not appear as prestigious this tour simply because Sagan has had little competition and a huge lead, so its not looking as exciting - its just getting slightly bad air time due to Sagan having green-but-no-win.

Get another year when it is close, then its prestige comes right back up.
Maybe it needs another adjustment to tweak it a little towards the sprinters and less straightforward for Sagan next year.