thorny59 said:
so when i ride sitting up no hands (eating, etc.) it seems i'm listing to the right a bit what is the easiest way to make sure its not the frame? Thanks
Easiest way? Have a go on your other bike

(same setup at least for saddle height and setback and ideally same shoes & pedals) and see what happens. Alternatively, if you have a friend whose bike you can play with, dial in the setup just like yours, go for a ride, and see if you tilt the same way. I have the same issue regardless of which of my four road and MTBs I'm riding, and they can't all be bent the same way!
Most likely it's your position on the bike, e.g. dropping your left hip. I'm fairly certain my problems relate to a functional if not anatomical leg length discrepancy (I know my feet are different by 1cm, but without x-rays you can't accurately measure leg length).
I've done what I can with bike fits from a couple of the LBS's, but one of these days I'll bite the bullet and get a professional fit from someone who does shims etc. It's a case of finding the time, and justifying both time and expense when my riding is 100% recreational...
FWIW, I do think stretching helps my riding position in general, including symmetry, when I can be bothered to do it consistently for a period of time. Problem is I'm lazy and only remember to stretch when things aren't feeling right...
